Going straight forward...antlers 5th thread.

[antlers]

Antlers,I could have written your last post myself.

Almost word for word, too.

You've given it your best. Nobly. Admirably

Peace will come.

Gardner...Thank You. I hope it comes for us both.

[antlers]

It just kills me how she can be so hard hearted, and angry, and apathetic after 8 months of separation. She knows that I have shouldered and acknowledged what I have done, she knows that I have been deeply remorseful and apologetic, she knows that I have tried to make amends, and I have clearly and consistently shown her that I'm not like I used to be anymore.
It doesn't matter at all to her! "You're still the same, you're still manipulative, you haven't changed, you will never change"! She said she wants 'closure' and has even encouraged me to 'move on' and find somebody else and "learn from your mistakes"! Dang!
She is like a different woman than the one I've known all these years!

[givingitmyall]

It just kills me how she can be so hard hearted, and angry, and apathetic after 8 months of separation. She knows that I have shouldered and acknowledged what I have done, she knows that I have been deeply remorseful and apologetic, she knows that I have tried to make amends, and I have clearly and consistently shown her that I'm not like I used to be anymore.
It doesn't matter at all to her! "You're still the same, you're still manipulative, you haven't changed, you will never change"! She said she wants 'closure' and has even encouraged me to 'move on' and find somebody else and "learn from your mistakes"! Dang!
She is like a different woman than the one I've known all these years!

First, I understand, but you are completely focused on HER and what SHE thinks. You have to get away from that. You have no control over it and it shows you are still attached to her. I really do understand, and I'm not jumping on you. But it is what it is. Focus on yourself and detach. Doesn't mean you won't hurt. You will.

Second, you can't do anything about the past. That's done. People CAN change. But you can't make her accept and believe you have. That's her problem. If she refuses to see it, and you really have changed, she's a fool.

Third, if she is not the woman you fell in love with and M'd, do you want her? God knows I understand the connection. But look real closely at what that connection is. Is it that you truly love her? Is it that you don't want to lose your family? Or, is it that you are fearful of D - that she's the best you'll ever do and no one worthy will ever want you?

One of the most amazing things I have learned is to like myself again. I honestly didn't before. And it showed. Once I got to know me again, and made myself a better person, I found I really liked who I am. That built my confidence and self esteem back to where they should have been all along. And, it helped me realize that I am worthy of love, real love, not the conditional support some think is love. And, it helped me realize that if my W does not want to work on HER issues, I could do better. And, I WILL.

If you W won't work on her issues, and you have corrected yours, then SHE is the problem at this point. So, let go of the past. Everyone here is 50% of the reason they are here.

The strength to change yourself and, more importantly, to BELIEVE in yourself, IS there, if you know where to look for it.

[antlers]

That's a heckuva post givingitmyall. Thanks. I haven't been focused on her or what she thinks for a good while. But after I got this call from her on Oct. 1, maybe my focus on her increased, because of the way the call made me feel. I know I have no control over her or what she thinks...I've accepted that for a long time. But I did have hope that I would be given a chance...eventually. Now that hope has been taken away, and the thought of not being able to love and care for her ever again as husband and wife, well...it hurts very bad. I know this is something I've gotta go through now, but I'm not liking it. I do hurt...like I haven't in many months.

I know I can't do anything about the past...other than what I have done, and that has been a lot. People can and do change. I have. And the change has been profound. I have wanted her to accept and believe that I have changed. She hasn't and doesn't. I know I have no control over that, but the disappointment is still there. I really have changed, and she refuses to see it.

Yeah, I still want her...and I want our family back. But she is taking that away from me and I can't stop her. The connection was genuine, especially on her part...and I miss that connection from her, especially now, since my changes gave me the ability to love her and cherish her like she has always wanted. I do truly love her, I also don't want to lose my family. Certainly aren't looking forward to the legal dealings of the divorce...it's gonna be huge and complicated. I do feel, right now, that she is 'the one'...and I also feel like I'll be alone forever. I know it's ending now, and I have to accept it...as she has said.

I want to like myself better. I beat myself up, still, because of my failures in the past...even though I have done everything in my power to rectify my failures in the past. I didn't like myself before either. And it undoubtedly showed. It affected every aspect of my life. I want to be strong, powerful, secure, confident, and compassionate. And I have been making real strides towards that, up until the call from her on Oct. 1. I need to have confidence and self-esteem...but something like this will rip it away, and it has. I want to feel worthy of real love. I'd like to feel it from her once again. But I don't, and it looks like I won't. And it saddens me.

I have to, must, continue to let go of the past. I was getting it done, but this new bomb brought me right down to the ground and made me start thinking about it much more.

I know I have the strength to change myself...I've done it! Believing in myself, especially under the circumstances now, is is a much tougher thing though.

[givingitmyall]

I understand why you feel the way you do. I would probably feel that way too.

How did you pick yourself up after the first bomb?

Greek had some great suggestions. Stay busy and do something for someone else. One of my tricks was to make myslef talk to someone who I saw during my day who was a stranger. It really helped me.

You're probably already exercising. If not, throw yourself into that. Getting back in shape helps the self confidence.

Get your mind occupied. You've been at this long enough to know what to do.

[antlers]

I understand why you feel the way you do. I would probably feel that way too.

How did you pick yourself up after the first bomb?

Greek had some great suggestions. Stay busy and do something for someone else. One of my tricks was to make myslef talk to someone who I saw during my day who was a stranger. It really helped me.

You're probably already exercising. If not, throw yourself into that. Getting back in shape helps the self confidence.

Get your mind occupied. You've been at this long enough to know what to do.

I'm really hating what's happened, and I'm really hating what's to come.

Time, mostly. But during that time I learned to become a better antlers and a better dad and a better partner. Exercising regularly, coming here to read and post, reading and studying 'Love Without Hurt' by Steven Stosny, prayer, trying to spend more time with friends, spending as much quality time with our little kids (custody has been 50-50 since the separation), and also hoping for a second chance with her.

Yeah, she did. Incidentally, compassion is something that I really went to work on after the separation. I was lacking in compassion. I'm more compassionate now, and I continue to work on it. I really learned how important compassion is, especially compassion for oneself as well as for others. I work in a busy ER, and I have ample opportunities to help and talk to others.

Exercising - I've lost 95 pounds. I ride a road bicycle on a regular basis...something I started doing after the separation. I rode 863 miles in August, and 795 miles in September. I've been spending lots of time out on the road and putting lots of miles. I have thrown myself into it. I also do dumbells, pushups, abs., and jump rope. Regularly. I am more physically fit now than I've probably been my whole life. Yeah, it helps me to be stronger in more ways than just physically. But, self-confidence is now in the tank since her call on Oct. 1.

This is a biggie! Right now, my mind is occupied with my past mistakes, and my family being broken and shattered apart, my wife divorcing me and not loving me anymore, and the horrible legal process that we're now going to go through. I wasn't thinking about this stuff for months and months. Now it's consuming me.

[givingitmyall]

So, in your mind, go to the worst case scenario. Embrace it and let it wash over you. Then, take a deep breath and realize that even in this worst case scenario, you still have your kids (nothing will change the fact you're their father or keep you from seeing them and being a huge part of their lives), your health, a beautiful world in which to live and a long life ahead of you with new and exciting people and places to see. So much left to learn.

So, you look the worst case scenario in the eye and say "so what, so f'ing what?". Kick it's a$$. Then realize if that's the worst it can get, you will be fine. Not what you want, but you will be fine.

If you can do this, it has no power over you. And I think you HAVE to do this to get to a healthy place.

If I can do it, anyone else here can. So, do it. And then be done with the fear.

[Dudess]

She knows that I have shouldered and acknowledged what I have done, she knows that I have been deeply remorseful and apologetic, she knows that I have tried to make amends, and I have clearly and consistently shown her that I'm not like I used to be anymore.

It doesn't matter at all to her! "You're still the same, you're still manipulative, you haven't changed, you will never change"!

Antlers,

I wonder if she is hanging out on some of the more vitriolic "support" forums for women in abusive relationships. "They never change" is the mantra. If it looks like he is changing, he is just doing it to manipulate you in to coming back and it is just the 'honeymoon' stage in the cycle of abuse. Some of these groups can really encourage and feed bitterness and contempt.

She still has so much anger and resentment towards me...even after these 8 months have passed. I really don't understand it. She hangs onto it like a security blanket.

It may well be a bit of a security blanket. Remember that anger and resentment are ways of avoiding feeling the underlying pain. Also, by hanging on to those feelings, she doesn't have to risk connecting with you again, hoping you have changed, only to be hurt again.

Yeah, it probably is over, but you never know. This is perhaps the best opportunity you've had yet to demonstrate that your changes were not just a show just to get her back. A guy who hasn't changed would now blame & whine, "You didn't give us a chance", (when he had years and years), become hostile and make the details of divorce very contentious. You, of course, won't do that.

Your regret over not changing sooner is understandable. I hope you will give yourself credit for changing now though. I do. A lesser man would not have done the work you have.

[Kettricken]

I want to feel worthy of real love. I'd like to feel it from her once again.

IMHO, the most loving thing you could possibly do for yourself is meditate and work toward decoupling those two statements in your mind and heart......

..... nothing wrong with wanting both, mind you. But allowing the first to remain dependent on the second is a cheeseless tunnel and keeps your focus in the wrong place.

You have changed. You can change this, too.

[antlers]

So, in your mind, go to the worst case scenario. Embrace it and let it wash over you. Then, take a deep breath and realize that even in this worst case scenario, you still have your kids (nothing will change the fact you're their father or keep you from seeing them and being a huge part of their lives), your health, a beautiful world in which to live and a long life ahead of you with new and exciting people and places to see. So much left to learn.

So, you look the worst case scenario in the eye and say "so what, so f'ing what?". Kick it's a$$. Then realize if that's the worst it can get, you will be fine. Not what you want, but you will be fine.

If you can do this, it has no power over you. And I think you HAVE to do this to get to a healthy place.

If I can do it, anyone else here can. So, do it. And then be done with the fear.

What I'm facing now IS the worst case scenerio for me! These are mental exercises that you're describing. Do you just do it once, and let that be it...or do you do it over and over, etc.? Everything you're saying here is right...I think it just takes time, and lots of effort and work, to get to where you describe. And in the meantime...you hurt and regret.

Again, this I believe to be absolutely true also. It's basically just a rephrasing of Coach's Stockdale Principle. Just hard to do early on in these circumstances.

Agreed.

Have you done it? Are you completely there? Are you divorced? Incidentally, I agree with your last sentence too...it just takes much effort, hard work, and time.