Going straight forward...antlers 5th thread.

[antlers]

Sorry Antlers, I really am. I got 3 hours to go until Mediation. I feel for you.

If I were you, I'd be tempted to not even open them until I got to the L tomorrow, not sure if that's good advice or not, just how I 'feel' at the moment.

I know your hurting, so just acknowledge it, it's good you just had a good workout too, doing something good for yourself.

Thanks. Good luck during your mediation. Thanks again.

I looked at em' (before I got your text). Talk about confronting the most brutal facts of your current reality! It's scary. I won't look at em' again till I'm with my lawyer tomorrow. She's asking for a lot!

Yep, I am, and I'm acknowledging it. I'm asking God for help, wisdom, and discernment. Yeah, it feels good to get in a good ride like that!


ps - I know you're under the gun too, and I especially appreciate you taking the time for me. Thank You.

[Dudess]

Quick question. Why does it make her mad, or disgusted, especially after all this time (and especially after she told me she filed for divorce), for me to even mention to her that I am sad or hurt? She can't stand that! "Poor you", "woe is me", etc. I don't understand it?

If I imagine myself in her situation, I might be thinking something like, "Oh, so now you are hurt? Well, cry me a river, a**hole. You kept hurting me year after year and that didn't seem to matter to you. But now that you are hurt - am I supposed to care?"

Sorry to sound so harsh. Just trying to give you some insight.

If you contact her now . . . when she has told you not to contact her, this will just be seen as pursuing. If I was in her shoes it would seem like more of the same manipulation to get her back under your control.

How can she see the changes if we never spend any time together?

Purple is right. Respecting her wishes will be a change. She will notice that you are respecting her boundaries by leaving her alone.

[orangedog]

Don't think about Div till you talk with lawyer tomorrow - it will just ruin your day.

Even the most amicable Div is going to have some script spew elements: "50/50 split?? Why aren't you being fair? blah blah blah!" Keep in mind it's not your fault. It's the collapse of the the WAW fantasy-afterlife. Just step aside and let it fall to the ground.

O'dog and the She had a fairly agreeable thing but there was still some stuff thrown at him.

Be firm but don't be hurtful - the only one you will hurt is yourself.

Stay strong and friendly my man.

[orangedog]

Here's a little inspiration for you to be the man you feel proud of today and in the years to come:

"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground on which I stand."

Thich Nhat Hanh

[futureunknown]

Purple is right. Respecting her wishes will be a change. She will notice that you are respecting her boundaries by leaving her alone.

I agree. There may be a time when she'll be open to seeing more from you, but that's on HER timetable, not YOURS. If you're willing to wait and see, then hunker down for the long haul, otherwise move on with your life. Just like when this whole thing started, your aching to tell her how you feel and to show her your changes is actually motivated by your need to make YOU feel better. She's being crystal clear as to what she wants from you. The best way to show her you care is to do what she wants. Don't ever again tell her you think what she's doing is wrong. That just reinforces the controlling image she has of you. She thinks what she's doing is her best chance to be happy again. If you love her, respect that.

My W is much happier now than she was in our M, and I've told her how much I enjoy seeing it. She responds very favorably when she hears that from me. I know she misses me and much of what we shared, but I also know she never wants to give up her newfound happiness, and I don't want her to. I do want to see if we could find a new path that allows us to have it all. Your W will have her guard up around you as long as she feels you are fighting her, and her guard includes not seeing you. One thing is absolutely guaranteed. Fighting her on the D, trying to convince her she's making a mistake, will NEVER work. It will only strengthen her resolve. At this point, if you want to pull a big 180 to try to change the status quo, you could go into these D negotiations with the attitude that you want her to be happy. Be supportive of her wishes. Don't roll over, this is too important to just give away the farm, but negotiate and compromise in good faith. I know it will be incredibly hard, as you'll feel like your stabbing yourself in the heart, but try to remember, she already has the knife. Maybe if you grab it and stab it yourself she'll notice.

Antlers, I don't think you've ever discussed here whether there were things in your M that were good, really good, things you think your W really might miss. Things you used to do together, or talk about. Do you think your W misses anything about your life together?

[Bridgestone]

whether there were things in your M that were good, really good, things you think your W really might miss. Things you used to do together, or talk about. Do you think your W misses anything about your life together?

There are things we do miss you know... not the big things, like sex (although.. yeah I miss that).. it's more of a combination of the little things..

when I needed AND wanted a fixer.. he was an amazing fixer.

dancing in the kitchen to a song on the radio- we danced great together

his warm legs for my cold feet in bed at night

taking me to watch the blow-em up, drive/fly fast adventure movies - I'm really not that into chick flicks & he knows it

having a man's appetite to cook for

those are some of the little things I miss....

[antlers]

Quick question. Why does it make her mad, or disgusted, especially after all this time (and especially after she told me she filed for divorce), for me to even mention to her that I am sad or hurt? She can't stand that! "Poor you", "woe is me", etc. I don't understand it?

If I imagine myself in her situation, I might be thinking something like, "Oh, so now you are hurt? Well, cry me a river, a**hole. You kept hurting me year after year and that didn't seem to matter to you. But now that you are hurt - am I supposed to care?"

Sorry to sound so harsh. Just trying to give you some insight.

If you contact her now . . . when she has told you not to contact her, this will just be seen as pursuing. If I was in her shoes it would seem like more of the same manipulation to get her back under your control.

How can she see the changes if we never spend any time together?

Purple is right. Respecting her wishes will be a change. She will notice that you are respecting her boundaries by leaving her alone.

Thank you Dudess for your explanation and putting it the way you have. Now, I understand it.

I don't take it as harsh. I take it as you trying to provide me with some insight, and you have. Thank You.

I have respected her wishes for the last 8 months. I have left her alone for the time that we've been separated. When she wanted to communicate, we did. She called last Friday and gave me a ration of crap over the phone. I listened and validated. She's still mad. At the end of what she had to say, she said she didn't want to communicate anymore except that regarding the kids. I still had some stuff that I felt the need to communicate...so I did, via texts. I don't intend to anymore. Especially after reinforcement from you folks here. It is so helpful. I know it's best, but sometimes our emotions get the best of us. I know that she knows how I feel. I'm human...and we are weak and frail sometimes. Especially under the circumstances that I've described recently. But, I felt the need, right or wrong, to say some stuff...and I did.


ps - thanks for being here. please stick around.

[antlers]

Don't think about Div till you talk with lawyer tomorrow - it will just ruin your day.

Even the most amicable Div is going to have some script spew elements: "50/50 split?? Why aren't you being fair? blah blah blah!" Keep in mind it's not your fault. It's the collapse of the the WAW fantasy-afterlife. Just step aside and let it fall to the ground.

O'dog and the She had a fairly agreeable thing but there was still some stuff thrown at him.

Be firm but don't be hurtful - the only one you will hurt is yourself.

Stay strong and friendly my man.

Yeah, I looked at the papers once. Kinda scared me, and really disappointed me. Maybe I'll feel more empowered after talking to my lawyer tomorrow about things.

I'm shocked and disappointed that she's asking for the things she is asking for! I imagine it'll make her mad if I fight against it. I don't intend to let her walk on me during this process.

I can only imagine!

I intend to do just that...be firm but not hurtful - realizing that I'd be hurting myself.

Good advice - stay strong and friendly - Thanks O'dog.


ps - I'm glad you're here. Good luck to you too!

[antlers]

Here's a little inspiration for you to be the man you feel proud of today and in the years to come:

"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground on which I stand."

Thich Nhat Hanh

I like that O'dog! Thanks.

[antlers]

Purple is right. Respecting her wishes will be a change. She will notice that you are respecting her boundaries by leaving her alone.

I agree. There may be a time when she'll be open to seeing more from you, but that's on HER timetable, not YOURS. If you're willing to wait and see, then hunker down for the long haul, otherwise move on with your life. Just like when this whole thing started, your aching to tell her how you feel and to show her your changes is actually motivated by your need to make YOU feel better. She's being crystal clear as to what she wants from you. The best way to show her you care is to do what she wants. Don't ever again tell her you think what she's doing is wrong. That just reinforces the controlling image she has of you. She thinks what she's doing is her best chance to be happy again. If you love her, respect that.

My W is much happier now than she was in our M, and I've told her how much I enjoy seeing it. She responds very favorably when she hears that from me. I know she misses me and much of what we shared, but I also know she never wants to give up her newfound happiness, and I don't want her to. I do want to see if we could find a new path that allows us to have it all. Your W will have her guard up around you as long as she feels you are fighting her, and her guard includes not seeing you. One thing is absolutely guaranteed. Fighting her on the D, trying to convince her she's making a mistake, will NEVER work. It will only strengthen her resolve. At this point, if you want to pull a big 180 to try to change the status quo, you could go into these D negotiations with the attitude that you want her to be happy. Be supportive of her wishes. Don't roll over, this is too important to just give away the farm, but negotiate and compromise in good faith. I know it will be incredibly hard, as you'll feel like your stabbing yourself in the heart, but try to remember, she already has the knife. Maybe if you grab it and stab it yourself she'll notice.

Antlers, I don't think you've ever discussed here whether there were things in your M that were good, really good, things you think your W really might miss. Things you used to do together, or talk about. Do you think your W misses anything about your life together?

Hey futureunknown.

I have done this for the past 8 months, especially as time went on. I kinda relapsed after she filed for divorce. I didn't do much, but I did send some texts that i felt the need to express. I can't count on her ever being open to seeing more from me. I DB'd my butt off over the last 8 months. I can't have false hopes that something will happen with her. I'd like it to. But she's moving on, and shouldn't I? Even though I'd like it if something happened on down the line? As time went on, I saw that the changes I needed to make needed to be made, period. It had nothing to do with getting her back. Yeah, she's crystal clear right now. And I intend to respect that. I haven't contacted her since Oct. 4, except regarding the kids. I don't intend to. I realize the best way to show her I care is to respect her wishes. I intend to. I don't intend to ever again tell her I think what she's doing is wrong. I can see how that reinforces the controlling image she has of me. I can see that she thinks what she's doing is her best chance to be happy again. I do love her.

Are you divorced? I'm not gonna fight her on the divorce...i.e., I know she's going through with it and I'm gonna have to go through it too. I'm not gonna try to stop her. But, I'm not gonna let her walk on me in the process of the divorce either. Certainly you're not advocating letting her have everything she's seeking? She's asking for a lot. It's really out of touch with reality...the things she's asking for! I won't try to convince her she's making a mistake by divorcing me. I'm really trying to take to heart the things you're saying here. I don't want to roll over. I want to be firm but friendly. This is her choice, and she needs to see the reality of the situation just as I do.

Right now, I don't think she misses anything. She knows that I love her. But she thinks about the anger, resentment, and abuse (verbal and emotional) more than anything else. That outweighs everything else to her. Things would have been so much better had I not been the way that I was for so long.


ps - man, I'm glad you're here.