Hi, S&A. And Poet . . . I'm glad things are working. I don't think you're really caught in a Catch-22; I think you solved it. Now you're in a position to try to save the marriage, if your husband decides he can make that effort, or to get along without the marriage if he can't.
I probably won't join a Facebook group; I'm on Facebook under my real name. We'll see.
My wife and I had an interesting conversation the other night. I bought her a gift . . . a set of soft rubber bondage cuffs. We've been "experimenting" with such things for years, usually with a neck tie or whatever else is handy around the room. I thought she would like these, and they have the added benefit that although they look black and thick, they're soft and they feel like they'll pop apart if you really give them a good yank (either that, or they're just not made to contain gorillas like me.) You can also reach the buckles to undo them yourself if you don't want to wear them.
Anyway, I knew she liked to be tied, and I knew she liked to be dominated. We're still working out exactly how that works for her, so buying this was kind of an experiment on my part, but I was interested to see how she'd react. I hung them on her robe hook before I went hunting, and when I came home they were gone, moved to her "toy drawer." The next night, I asked her if she'd found her present. "Yes . . ." she said. "Good." I said with my arms around her waist. "We'll try them on tonight." "Well . . . we'll see." "Why will we see? Are you going to pretend you don't love being tied up? Have you forgotten last time?" "I do, I do . . . but putting those on, it's like you're doing . . . . you know . . . . like . . . . bondage or something." "Well . . . yeah, we would be. But you like bondage. You go crazy. Remember? What do you call it when you're tied up with a scarf and blindfolded?" "That's not bondage! That's just experimenting."
To her credit, all it took was a raised eyebrow at that point for her to laugh and realize how silly that was. We talked a little about why she thought it would be so wrong. She's at least starting to think about these things and how little sense it makes. Me dominating her is clearly an important part of her sexuality, and I enjoy it too, and it's frustrating. But at least we can talk about it now.
Long story short, she couldn't resist, and she was wild. I tied her up, I blindfolded her, I told her what to do and she did it . . . there was some spanking and some hair-pulling. At one point I said something like, "You did that so well I'm going to give you a choice now." Her response? "I don't want a choice. I want you to keep doing things to me. Any things you want." So I did, and we had a great time. It was absolutely fantastic.
But the next day, I again brought up the idea of sitting down to set limits and agree on a safe word, and you'd think I'd accused her of peeing on the carpet. So we don't have a safe word, nor do I really understand where the limits are. For now, I'm simply going to make it clear that if she resists me or refuses in any way, then the night is over. If she wants to be able to do those things as part of her fantasy, I'm game, but in that case we will establish a safe word. In effect, her safe word is "no" unless she's willing to change it.
She still can't seem to face her own desires in the daylight, but at this point I'm just feeling happy that I'm starting to figure out how to translate her garbled sexual messages. And at least she's now aware of the damage it does when she tries to pretend not to have a sexuality. It's hard not to take it as a judgment of me and my sexuality (and a finding of "pervert") when we do something she clearly, loudly, violently enjoys and then she goes right back to telling me she's not really into it. I'm tempted to record her sometimes, but I know that's not the problem--she already knows she enjoys sex and being dominated. She just thinks she shouldn't.
She still can't seem to face her own desires in the daylight, but at this point I'm just feeling happy that I'm starting to figure out how to translate her garbled sexual messages. And at least she's now aware of the damage it does when she tries to pretend not to have a sexuality. It's hard not to take it as a judgment of me and my sexuality (and a finding of "pervert") when we do something she clearly, loudly, violently enjoys and then she goes right back to telling me she's not really into it. I'm tempted to record her sometimes, but I know that's not the problem--she already knows she enjoys sex and being dominated. She just thinks she shouldn't.
Good to see you back, SOB, and it's obvious that both you and your wife have made terrific progress over the past year -- I'm very pleased for you and you proud of you too.
My own wife does not like to talk about what turns her on, especially if it falls into the realm of D/s play. As with your wife, her attitude is that it's just not something that you talk about in daylight: "Nice Girls" aren't supposed to like, crave, enjoy, or get turned on by that sort of thing. So her preference is to keep up the proper Nice Girl persona by day, and only allow the Naughty Girl submissive to come out and play by night, behind a locked door, and only when I, as her Dominant man, "make" her do it.
I also know that as a relatively new and inexperienced Dominant, you'd really wish that she would talk about it by day, share her preference, explain -- in black-and-white clear-cut language -- exactly where her boundaries are. It sure would help *you* to feel a lot more secure, because you love her, you don't want to hurt her, and you don't want to offend her -- you want to turn her on and drive her crazy (whilst getting severely turned on yourself).
Based upon my own experience, I would advise that you NOT push her to talk about it by day. Give her time to get used to accepting herself as a sexual submissive. Don't shove it under her nose. Let her gradually ease into the role. In addition to accepting a previously (and carefully) hidden side of herself, she's also in the process of learning to TRUST you as her sexual Dominant, and lacking clear-cut boundaries or safe-words, your best bet is to continue exactly what you are doing now: expand your experimental activities gradually, and take the responsibility for thoroughly researching any new things that you'd like to try and think that she might like --> and you *know* that you would like. That last bit is key: a large portion of her passion and pleasure is in being "used" for YOUR passion and pleasure. If it ain't turnin' you on, then it won't work for her either, in most instances.
Lastly, learn to trust your own instincts and impressions when playing with her suggestively during the day, grabbing her up for a kiss and/or a quick grope in the evening (I personally still can't do this daily, as DQ suggests, but the frequency has slowly increased), or when telling (not *asking*, but telling) her what you intend to do to her later on that night. My wife still *never* says anything verbally, or even suggestively through body language, in positive reply to the above. But she DOES have this little Mona Lisa smile (what I call her "sex smile") that indicates that she's enjoying my lusty attentions or likes my suggestions for later. It's very subtle, and I used to miss it or not trust what I thought it meant. However, it's there, and I trust my instincts on it now.
Again, as a guy you tend to want clear-cut, obvious signals. Well, neither my wife nor yours are there yet, and we have to make up for it somewhat with our own confidence and assertiveness. It's good practice for all involved (for both the "D" and the "s"), and progress -- keep at it!
-- Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Good things are happening. It's never as fast as I want, but I'm happy to be moving forward. I got the results of a professional certification test on Friday, and I passed with 97%, which means I can now get my certificate in my chosen area. That should lead to a much better job soon--I hope.
I also had the germ of an idea for a new novel, but I'm not sure it will amount to anything. We'll see.
Sex just gets better and better. It's really starting to make more sense to me. Last night was maybe the fourth or fifth time in the last month or two that we've had what I thought of as the best ever in some particular "genre" of sex, as nerdy and weird as that looks in print. Without getting off-putting with details, last night was the best shower we've ever had together. I'm beginning to feel like we've finally gotten comfortable enough with the idea that we are a sexual couple who like to have sex with each other to explore. I was never very clear on what people meant by "exploring my sexuality" before, because we had a pretty limited repertoire of what was "acceptable," and I was scared to deviate from it lest the opportunity for lovemaking vanish altogether. But now that we're doing things she isn't completely sure of, it requires me to do things I'm not completely sure of. Specifically, it's becoming clear that her sexuality is strongest when she's being led and dominated. Just thinking about the look on her face last night when I did the simplest thing--I put her hands high on the wall and told her she had to leave them there while I toweled her off--is causing a physical reaction in me now, a day later. It was a look I haven't seen on her face too many times. She was completely focused on her pleasure and paying no attention to any other concern.
This requires a certain control and decisiveness from me that I haven't always wanted to show. Being the leader, or the dominant one, means I have to know more or less what I'm doing and I can't just let instincts go. Maybe that will come with time. But I feel like we're genuinely exploring now, doing things without knowing whether they'll "work" or not, taking chances. It's so much easier than I thought it would be. But I think that's because we've been working so hard on taking each other at face value and treating each other with understanding and compassion. If I try something that falls flat, I *think* it won't be the end of our love life. As recently as a couple of months ago my wife told me that she thought we were starting to be awkward again, and that we'd been forcing and jump-starting nights with the "Just do it" strategy, but she wondered if I was happy. I told her that I loved making love with her, but it was more pressure for me since she had basically made the changes I asked for and I was still "auditioning" every time--feeling like I had something to prove, because if the earth didn't move, she might lose interest. We were able to talk frankly about that, and it led us both to relax more.
(Actually, my wife just wandered in looking for something and complaining about her back. Apparently we strained it last night. Oops. Sometimes I feel like Lenny from Of Mice and Men. "Gosh, Mrs. Bear, I sure didn't mean to break you. I just wanted to have some sex with you, and love you, and keep you, and pet you, is all.")
This weekend also kicked off my next weight-loss phase. I've put some of the weight I lost last time back on, and I need to take it off. I'm going to try to update here with the amounts lost (sorry, not putting my weight) in my signature. Is it stupid to try to lose weight starting less than two weeks before Christmas? Probably, but my mama always said "Be yourself," which has led me to attempt any number of stupid things. I've started by moving my weights and equipment down into the basement so I can use them at roughly room temperature, and I've been doing bodyweight squats and pushups around the house for awhile now. But I know these are the peripheral issues. The big one is diet, and it has to come back under control. Tomorrow morning I start the SlimFast shakes again.
I should clarify that my weights were on the back porch, and the wind chill the other day was below zero here, and if that makes me a sissy, so be it, as long as I'm a warm sissy.
"I was never very clear on what people meant by "exploring my sexuality" before".
Its awesome, isn't it?
Just keep in mind that your W is also exploring hers. She doesn't necessarily "know" what she will like and what she wont. She likely never really thought she would want you to dominate or lead her. She probably thought that she just "wasn't into it" but she didn't have thoughts like "but if only he would do x, y, z I might get into it". She and you both are getting to go through those thoughts now and test them out. So now that she is getting a little bit of fun and pleasure out of you dominating a little and leading more, she is just now being open to those feelings. The look on her face you described, was new to her, too. She likely has never really felt that before. Its all very exciting and I'm very happy for you two.
At the moment, I think we're exploring hers more than mine. I spent years and years thinking about my sexuality and developed a clearer picture, I think, than she did in years of trying not to think about it. But I'm still learning about myself because having her involved (not that she wasn't with me before, but she certainly wasn't exploring anything) changes my reactions and my understanding of myself. There are things I thought were peripheral to my sexuality that turn out to be much more compelling and exciting now that they're part of her sexuality, if that makes sense. I didn't realize she was capable of being this wholehearted about sex. It worries me that I'll mess it up somehow.
For now, I'm content to explore her sexuality and see how mine reflects it, given how long I've wished I could do just that. A year from now, who knows? There's no way to know what we'll have discovered together by then. It *is* exciting.
I just finished my column and promotion for the morning, so now the toddler and I are off to the big city to file my certification for my day job. When I get back, I'm going to work on sheathing the house and trimming around the windows on our bedroom--after which I can finally insulate, wire and drywall that room in earnest.
But here's the commitment I'm making here for everyone to see: Before the New Year, I will finish and test the plumbing--hot, cold and drain--for the bathtub in the new bathroom upstairs. She will be able to take long, hot baths. I was well on my way at one time, and the tub itself is installed and seems to be bedded perfectly, but as cold weather came on, those windows took precedence. Now it will get done. This gives me about two weeks, but we won't be home for all of that. (In a normal house, this should be doable in one good Saturday of focused work, but in my house I'm not making any predictions.)
Silly - you said: "I spent years and years thinking about my sexuality and developed a clearer picture, I think, than she did in years of trying not to think about it."
I don't mean to discount what you are saying, but "thinking" about your sexuality is not the same as exploring it. I was in the same boat. When I was married before, I thought a lot about my sexuality and what I might "like", things I might like to try, etc.
But then when I met my current husband and actually got to explore my sexuality versus just thinking about it, I found that by exploring, NEW THOUGHTS which would have never occured to me without having experience as well popped up. There are so many facets to my sexuality that it was impossible to know them all without direct exploration. Thinking without experience tends to just lay on the surface. Thinking without experience doesn't involve intimacy and emotions. Its the intimacy and emotions which really pull it all together and cause the exploration...
You are finding this out. I am just making the point that you will continue to surprise yourself over the years, as much as your wife will continue to surprise you and herself (assuming that you two continue to recover).
Even my current husband, who had a crazy, wild, abandoned, bad boy sex life including every fantasy imaginable before I ever met him...is STILL exploring his own sexuality with me in our sex life and learning new things about himself.
The depth of our capacity is bottomless...there will always be more and more to learn about yourself.
I don't do that very often, for obvious reasons. But I think maybe I have the Hamthrax. My parents had the kids, and we did her idea of a fun night out, which amounted to Chinese take-out and a trip to a bar a town over so she could dance to a band. They were not good, but they were loud. I tried to dance, but I was heavily medicated and I can't figure out dancing anyway. I mostly just stood in front of her and stepped from side to side. I know she doesn't see it this way, but when we dance like that it feels like she should be dancing by herself. Her dancing has nothing to do with me; I have a hard time even getting her to hold my hands. I know I should just dance and forget the awkwardness, but it's hard in front of everyone when I don't know what I'm doing. And she can't really help me. She dances (this is her analogy) the way I write. If she wants to write anything of any length, she follows a formula and just tries to get through it, while I just sit down and make the words flow. I wanted to take dance lessons because I wanted to "learn how" to dance, but she doesn't have a "how." She just does it.
Anyway, we spent some time dancing . . . more or less . . . and some time sitting at the bar talking, which was more fun for me. We went home, I took more drugs, and we made each other hot tea (long story.) I took the tea upstairs and she was putting on her teddy. That can only mean one thing with her; she was sending up the flag.
And I was tempted. I still have that desperate feeling from time to time, like this is the last chance and if I don't take advantage I'll regret it over the coming sexless weeks . . . or months . . . or years . . .
But in the end, it was a bad idea and I knew it. I could hardly breathe, I'd probably have to blow my nose halfway through, my body ached and it just wasn't sexy in any way except that she was there and willing (although you should see her dance . . . that was sexy.) I didn't really say no, I just got into bed, snuggled up close to her, and gave her a kiss before I laid my head down and closed my eyes.
This morning I asked her if I'd disappointed her. I guess I should have known better than to think we've progressed quite that far; there was no disappointment for her, but she worried that she'd disappointed me. I guess it's good that we could talk about it. I actually feel pretty good about the whole thing today. We had a nice night of sleeping snuggled up close, and I really think if I'd tried to force my sickly body through sex it would have gotten awkward, ugly . . . maybe a little gross.
