I agree that you need to try and remember that when you talk about the past you can't expect to solve it in one sitting. It will take many, many little conversations to work through. If you find you are in a place where you are getting frustrated or upset, do your best to stop the conversation there and table it for another time.
Also, have you tried reading a couple of books to help you? I read "After the Affair" when I found out about XW's affair and it helped to put things into perspective for me and answered a lot of questions. Also, I finally got around to reading "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" and it is very helpful and insightful. I learned a lot about what I did in my M that wasn't the best, and I've realized a lot about my ingrained communication skills that need improvement b/c I've been doing it all wrong. It may be too late for my latest R, but I'm so glad I read them as they will do nothing but improve things for me in the future.
He never says he loves me. He wrote it a couple of times but never tells me.
He is not patient with me. He gets defensive even when I dont blame him and I am honest when I say I dont blame him, I only state some facts such as "when you left us 2 years go". He reacts to that as if I blame him. I can see he is hurting with guilt but I cant help him with that.
He said yesterday he sees our steps as normal steps of reconciliation. I dont know. There is one part of him that showed up last night that I dont like at all. He is cruel. Trying to defend himself, he has no common sense, he wants to put everything away fast but at the same time, his steps to show his love are extremely slow.
I wish he would LISTEN TO ME, JUST LISTEN, I want for once to let all the hurt out to him, cry, complain, cry some more and I want him to listen and hold me and validate me. Anyway, got up worked up today. Checking my finances again, just in case... K
That part sounds exactly like my H and I. He has never said he loved me since his EA almost 5 years ago. It hurts..and sucks. He also gets defensive with me when I try to talk about anything.
I try to talk to him to make him listen to me, but then again, I know it only causes him to feel more guilt and pushes him away. But I feel there does come a time, when you just need to let it all out, just for your own sanity..and then move on. He will get over it..and hopefully it opens up his eyes.
I tried doing some of that last night with my H and the night ended with both of us angry. I called to tell him I didn't want him to leave like that and he said he didn't want to leave like that either but what was he supposed to do. Again..he was angry cuz I was angry he wanted a divorce. Well DUH!
Anyhow..just rambling now..
my point..maybe try telling him a little bit how you feel, if you feel comfortable doing it. Even though he might be upset at first, when he has some time to think about it, it might start to sink in. I am hoping that is what happens with my H.
I prefer to be happy than right. I chose not to beat him up with this ever since I cracked the door open. But there must be a balance in all this. And pretending nothing happened or better, that what happened is no part of our today is BS. The would is still bleeding so to speak. It's not a scar yet.
I know that my feelings are mine to own and deal with, but I realise I need his help. I wish I didnt, but I do. I dont know if I am strong enough to do the piecing thing. We'll see. K
Seems to me that a really important question is "Why?"
Something happened that allowed this man to choose to be an adulterer, to break his vows to you, to walk away from his family to be with another.
I understand not wanting to be beat up about your failings on a regular basis. That's reasonable and fair. Especially if the two of you are openly choosing to try to recover this marriage.
But the other side of the coin is that the one who was betrayed needs a reason to believe that what he chose to do was an aberration for him - a one time occurence that happened for a REASON. And hopefully a reason that can be fixed so as not to occur again in the future.
If a friend and I went in to business together, both of us having a shared vision that we thought would be profitable and successful, and a few years in to our joint venture he decided to sell me out and shared our plan with another, allowing that person to take away part of what we would have accomplished in our partnership... Well, it would be a long, long time before I would be able to trust that person again. And I would be extremely hesitant about allowing that person back in to my trust unless there was a really good explanation for why he did what he did.
And that's just business...
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Standing by, supporting you... I am glad that you are making the effort and I understand wanting to be heard. That is where a good counselor's help could come in. They can structure a time/place to let it all out, like someone else said in a certain forum you share the hurt and then at other times you just spend time together reconnecting. Because obv. as you already stated there has to be times of good interactions to rebuild, but there also has to be a time to air out what came between you...
Business versus matters of the heart is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.
There was a guy in management of my company that tried to make a power play and become president. He said that his first task upon becoming president was to fire me and another co-owner (to free up shares) and bring in a friend to take my job. I got word of this and sent him an email telling him to he was an idiot and to go have sex with himself. He came to apologize to me the next day and I told him to get lost and leave me alone. We fired him shortly after that. I have no reason to forgive him or ever allow him to work with me again.
However, my wife betrayed me to the emotional core. I did not feel like telling her to go to hell. We still had children to raise.
But, you make a great point Bill about the responsibility being on Kalni's H in helping her understand why he strayed and convincing her beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would never happen again. He also needs to open his heart more to express his total love for her. Why she has to guide him to do this shows a major flaw with the man. A good man should not need guidance by his wife in showing and proving to her his love.
Kerry, last night it was so obvious, this man is trying VERY hard to "function" while feeling all this guilt. Remember I said my emails when I first found out this, would make ME suicidal? I wouldnt want to be in his shoes. Last night he mentioned "guilt" so many times in a 20 mins conversation I lost count. I had noticed something telling in one of his email as well. He had said something like "I am the one that has to live with himself". And as you must know if you have read your share of self help books, as I am sure you have, guilt isnt helping him, or "us".
Bill, there is no trust. And he knows that. And he doesnt expect me to trust him, no matter what he says. This is going to be a "test and trial" thing for quite some time. Unless my Alzheimer kicks in and I lose my mind. I feel I know why he chose to cheat on me. He actually chose to leave me. Not cheat on me. He believed his love was dead and replaced for the love with another. It wasnt his choice to have 2 women and play games with both of them. He left although I didnt know he had her. He couldnt take the double life any longer. From her emails, they had tried to stop seeing each other, because he asked her to, a few times. They couldnt and he thought back then, he made the right choice, he soon figured out, he couldnt get over me (or that's what I want to believe maybe).
And our relationship at that time, wasnt covering any of each other's emotional needs. We were an accident waiting to happen. That much I know. Why he chose to abandon ship and not save it, well, I guess excitement, lust, new shiny woman, his need to feel good and admired etc etc played their role. Do not believe this is a part I am not eagerly looking for answers from him though. So far the "I wasnt in love wit her, I was in love with the state I was in" is what I got.
Bbj, it is obvious things are very fragile at the moment.For both of us. For our own reasons for each one of us. I am hesitant to suggest a coucenlor because...there arent any here really trained for infidelity or marriage counceling at all. There isnt ONE councelor listed anywhere in Athens as solely marriage councelor. They advertise as councelors for "family, kids, couples' therapy" and when you ask them, they tell you that "you dont have big chances to stay together but if you want I will try to help you", exactly what Michele and others say to avoid. I may have to look harder. But at this point I may as well teach one of our friends all I know and let them help us.
My friend today that we spent the day together with his family yesterday, called me and said he enjoyed how me and stbxH interacted, "like good old times" he said. He suggested we talk to our monk if stbxh agrees. I am thinking about it.
What this man did, is not acceptable. What this man did can not be excused. I have 2 choices, stick to that and close the door or give us a chance and move beyond that. I am trying to do the latter. Not very successfully but God knows, I wasnt prepared for this. No one ever is I gather. K
I agree w/Bill about you will need to have H explain himself to you at some point so you can understand why he did what he did. Also, I completely agree w/the need for time to let this all work out.
H is guilty and that is a good thing for him to share w/you. Remember, it is still deeds instead of words. You also mentioned that he hasn't said he loves you. Maybe he can't for some reason. I don't know, but he could possibly be locked up where love is concerned.
However, has he been "loving" in his actions? Just a thought that he may be able to show you rather than tell you right now.
The fact you don't trust him is natural and will only dissipate in time. He will have to continually work to earn your trust, so he needs to know this too will not be a quick fix...nor should it be (again, this is where I found "After the Affair" to be helpful and enlightening).
Finally, concerning counseling, you said:
Quote:
I may have to look harder.
I think this is it. You'll need to find a counselor that is willing to work for what you want and your agenda. It may take a lot of work and a lot of "interviewing" but in the end, a good counselor can make a lot of positive difference.
So (((((((((((((((((((Maria)))))))))))))))))