your advice is perfect! and why not give advice..you are great at it..really. Thank you so much. I am trying to be strong, it just really hurts with the person you love and support say those things to you. I have SO much to offer..I just am uncertain what he wants or why its not me...I guess should not worry about that. I cannot change him. I can only change me!
It makes me feel good that I can give something back.
I will tell you a story ... may be long, but I hope it helps you as this is what made me realise what WAS actually do.
On 5 October I had a lunch with my W show told me that we had no future and that it was over. Okay, I was upset and I wasn't giving up but I listened and we spoke to for 90 minutes. I then went to a friends house and spoke to her about it.
Within about an hour of the 'we're over' talk I got a text from my W asking if I wanted to go for a walk on the beach with the dog. I said sure, and she picked me up 30 minutes later.
The SECOND (and I do mean the SECOND) I got into the car she started on me as to how EVERYTHING I did in the relationship was wrong. In fact, she said to me the SECOND I got in, had I listened to the local radio as they had a thing about relationships and what to do when they break up and that I had done EVERYTHING WRONG that they said I shouldn't do and everything on the checklist was wrong and she said it with a smug smile.
That 90 minutes on the beach taught me an awful lot as she criticised and blamed me for everything. Now you can listen to somebody who tells you you did this or that wrong. Or you made a mistake here and there. Common sense tells you though that when somebody blames you for EVERYTHING, something is amiss. You can't possibly be to blame for everything in a relationship that the two of you were in. Alarm bells ring.
Remember, they doth protest too much ... it really does make sense.
What this walk made me realise is that when somebody blames you for things in such a forceful way that they are in fact telling you something. Two and two don't compute. Things don't add up. What they are telling you is that they cannot deal with their feelings which are most likely grief, guilt, hurt and upset.
Think back to when you really hurt. What did you do - you blamed somebody else for the pain. You blamed your mum, dad, spouse, whatever. You blamed somebody else because when you put that blame onto somebody else you can completely disown your part in it and make it their responsibility. It's really easy. We have ALL done it. It's human nature. The human brain is an incredibly wonderful piece of architecture. However, you need to remember that the brain is a liar. It has to be in order to make you feel better - as I said, it's human nature. Nothing you can do about it or you H. It is what it is.
Your H is blaming you for his pain. Why? Because he can't deal with it. If he blames you for it then he puts that responsibility onto you and he absolves himself for responsibility. Human nature.
My advice is to do one or both of these things - you MUST ignore what he says. He's not speaking. His hurt, guilt and upset is. The second is optional - fog him. Agree with him and negate his criticism. Works wonders if you keep at it.
Don't worry about him not wanting you. He's speaking to you which I would give my right arm for with my W! You just need to listen to what he says and not what he is saying ... difficult I know.
Last edited by P17; 11/10/0901:13 AM.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
How do you listen to what he says and not what he is saying?? He tells me time and time again that he cannot trust me and I am not someone he feels he can talk to. It is very very hurtful. It is hurtful to hear that no matter what he will never wear his ring again. Today was a really hard day. I am beating myself up..running or pilates did not even help..I am hurting a lot right now..more than before because I was finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. This is just too much. I just feel like all love is lost..although his actions to not match his words..I am just hurt.
How do you listen to what he says and not what he is saying??
As I've said before I'm no expert and reluctant to give advice. One thing I did pick up from here and elsewhere is that what WS say and what they are actually saying are two entirely different things. I no longer listen to much that my W says anymore.
When your husband says 'you never listened to me' and you know in your heart of hearts that it's true, then what he is saying is 'I'm really hurting and I need to lash out'.
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He tells me time and time again that he cannot trust me and I am not someone he feels he can talk to. It is very very hurtful.
I'm just looking at my own situation but he is probably right. He cannot trust you again and you probably aren't someone he can talk to, but not for the reasons you are thinking. You're hearing his words but not hearing what he is saying.
However difficult it may seem, try and put yourself in your husband's shoes just now. He has betrayed you. He has lied, cheated, destroyed your family etc. If YOU had done that to HIM, would you be able to even look him in the eyes, let alone open up to him? I know I wouldn't.
He knows what has done. He knows how much pain he has caused and he knows the pain he is feeling. The last person in the world he would want to open his heart to is you. When he does he is going to have to talk about all of these things. When he talks about them he is going to have to admit to everything he has done. When he does that, it is going to cause him so much more pain that he feels now. So again, he is lashing out at you so that he doesn't have to feel the pain anymore.
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It is hurtful to hear that no matter what he will never wear his ring again.
That's why he is doing it. To hurt you. He is doing it to make himself feel better. We all do it, we've all done it and we all will do it again in the future. It's just human nature. If he will never wear his ring again, then why does he keep it? Why doesn't he sell it, throw it away or give it back to you?
He can't wear a symbol of marriage, love and commitment knowing what he has done.
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Today was a really hard day. I am beating myself up..running or pilates did not even help..I am hurting a lot right now..more than before because I was finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. This is just too much. I just feel like all love is lost..although his actions to not match his words..I am just hurt.
This is something that PDT taught me on here. When his word match up with his action, over time, you will know he is telling you the truth.
A big lesson for me is ... don't judge people on what they say, judge them on their actions.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
P17- Give yourself more credit. Your advice is PERFECT and helped to get me back on track again:) I was lost in the moment and forgot that this is about me not him..fixing me first...He is responsible for himself and I need to start focusing on me..I have focused on him for 10 years..HE should be the one BEGGING for ME to take HIM back!!!!! In the meantime, I am backing off and giving him space. If he chooses to trust me and talk to me going forward then great..and if not..HIS LOSS! Same with the ring..personally I think it bothers him a bit that he is not wearing it..oh and he did give it back to me..the reason I think this is whenever we are around my family or friends or his family he puts his hands in his pocket..but whatever...that is his deal. He started this and now he is going to have to deal with the new ME! The better me. Yeah ME!!!! P17--Thank you! I am going to try to validate his feelings and maybe in time he can change. The alcohol problem---that is a HUGE problem..and his past that he has not dealt with..well..he has a long road ahead of him..but for now I am enjoying finding myself again:)
So read your sitch tonight. You have come a far ways! And in such a short amount of time. Very impressed. Your advice to me has been so well taken on my part, I really appreciate it. I am definitely not in the position to be giving advice, but just wanted to let you know my sitch doesn't have any infidelity but other than that i feel very connected with you. I feel we are very much alike. I have been told by many people on here that I have anxiety issues. I will be going to a doctor next week to get further professional advice about it, but I agree with it. Any certain techniques you have found help with it? I also obsess. I obsess till I drive myself crazy. Sometimes I will do it every minute of everyday, and then the next day not at all, then back again the next day. This is where I feel anxiety plays a part.
I'm glad you have taken the route you are on now. You sound like you are in a much better place than even a week ago. So good for you. I will continue to read your thread and offer my two cents when i feel I have something to give but like I said, not quite there yet. So I applaud you for being able to chime in on my sitch, it speaks volumes for you and where you are today.
M: 31 H: 29 Married: 6 yrs Children : 7yr old, 5yr old, 2yr old
Separated: Sept. '09 Moved Back In for wrong reasons: Nov. 30, 09 Recomitted to our Marriage: Jan. 25, 10 Threatening to leave again: July,14
Any certain techniques you have found help with it?
I had (and still do a certain extent) anxiety issues. Mine were / are based around simple self-confidence. The two ways I have deal with this is self-help books to understand that the way I feel is actually just normal (it's the brain) for me and I just need to work around it - understanding how you feel at the time though and why you feel it is incredible.
The other way I have got through my anxiety is plain and simple just doing it. Social situations scare the h*ll out of me. Still do but no where near as bad as they did. I used to literally run away. No more. Deep breaths, calm head, just go in, enjoy myself and stay away from alcohol.
Find a book called Feel The Fear and Do It Anyway ... recommended by my MC. Great book.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself!
Hope it helps a little.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
I'm glad I could help. I feel I take so much from this forum and give little back!
Originally Posted By: swimmingupstream
HE should be the one BEGGING for ME to take HIM back!!!!!
Yes and no. I know what you mean but he shouldn't be begging. He needs to show you that he wants to be in the marriage and will do what he needs to do do it. But bear in mind when he gets to the stage where he is willing to do that he will be opening himself up for rejection, humiliation, retaliation etc. His head and heart needs to know that when they open those doors up to you that you are not going to simply put your hand inside and crush what's left of his heart. That's not going to easy for him to do or you to do.
You need to make him aware that when is ready to talk, he can do in a safe way without any judgement. His reasons, actions and explanations are going to seem ridiculous, irrational and illogical but if that's how he feels then he needs to get that out of himself.
However that doesn't mean being a doormat. It means just caring and loving him without feeling the need to fix or control him.
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In the meantime, I am backing off and giving him space. If he chooses to trust me and talk to me going forward then great..and if not..HIS LOSS!
I think giving him space is a good idea, for YOU. What he chooses to do with the time is up to him. Focus on you and not him.
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Same with the ring..personally I think it bothers him a bit that he is not wearing it..oh and he did give it back to me..
That was probably another way to hurt you. Giving back 'presents', gifts, wedding rings. At least that was my take on it. What we normally do when somebody tries to give us something like that is to tell them it was a gift and theirs and then the 'you take it, no you take it' conversations. Just keep it. If / when he's ready he'll ask for it back. Don't ever offer it though.
P17--Thank you! I am going to try to validate his feelings and maybe in time he can change.[/quote]
You need to remember that maybe in time he won't change though. If you keep focusing on yourself (and maybe I should take my own advice) then by that time you will at least be strong enough to decide what it is you want or cope with who he has become or the decision he has made.
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The alcohol problem---that is a HUGE problem..and his past that he has not dealt with..
If it were me, I would make this priority number 1 to deal with. No reconciliation until he has sorted himself. The road to recovery for him won't be straight or flat but if he does come out the other side you may find you have an H back that knows and understands himself a lot better in all aspects of his life. It may help your M.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
Hmm..I was a little high on my horse last night when I posted that. I still am basing my feelings too much on what he does. Last night he went back to the basement. It hurts me more now than it did to begin with. Why does this all have to be his way or the high way..why is he not considering anyone elses feelings..mine..the kids( he continues to say d does not hurt the children..they are too young to remember, 5 and almost 2)...We honestly do not have that bad of a marriage now. Really..except for the fact that he says he cannot trust me or I will never be someone he can talk to..whatever the HELL that means. I dont know..I just know I am not sure how much more I can put up with..he does still control my moods very much!
