Greetings! Pep talk? And... boundaries?

[Heather]

Hi, this is my first post.

I'm pretty sure my husband is going through a MLC. He is 43, we have a five year old son.

I think it has been going on for a few years, but has been confused with the stress of the first few years of parenting.

We had been in councilling, and our relationshop had imporved alot, but there were still some problems. He tends towards passive-aggressive behaviour (a lot of "forgetting" to do things, not following through on promises, etc) and our sex life never seemed to be mutually satisfying. I always thought that was a symptom of the relationshop, and really hoped that it would just pick up again, after things got calmer and kinder around the house.

After councilling, I tried to approach these issues again, in a more calm, understanding way.

He asked for space, and I agreed. I backed off sexually, worked on myself, started new hobbies, was cheerful and kind around the home, you all know the drill. His mood improved considerably.

About 5 months in to this period of "more space", he dropped the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" bomb. Because I had been reading about MLC and Divorce Busting etc, I responded calmly, told him I was sorry he felt that way, that it looked like he was going through a hard time, that I was committed to him, and that I was willing to continue giving him space and that I was not suffering during this process.

Things continued to improve. I have started jogging and reconnecting with my own friends. I'm going to be going back to school in January, testing to see if I might like to do my Masters.. He started working out. He's lost weight. He's getting better about making time for himself and reconnecting with his own friends. He seemed to be practising setting boundaries himself, which is something he had struggled with before. All good signs, I thought.

Earlier this week, after not mentioning the situation at all for months, I decided to let him know where I was at. This may have been a mistake! After he had dropped the "not in love with you" bomb, I had talked to our counciller, and he had suggested letting DH know that I wasn't miserable from the lack of sex, so that DH couldn't wallow in being a martyr and would instead have to focus on himself. With that in mind, I thought it might be good to let DH know I wasn't suffering from the space, either.

So, with that in my mind, I touched base with him again, and let him know that, although I missed him alot, and I missed our previous connection and I missed having a physical relationship with him, that I continued to be committed to the marriage, and that I did not resent giving him the space. I admitted that the firsty few months had been very difficult, but that this new way of relating was ok, in fact it was good.

That night, after spending an evening with a girlfriend, I came home to an email message telling me that he was much happier now, that he felt he would never again be vulnerable with me or want to be physically intimate with me, and that he hoped I could accept this. We talked about it the next morning, and he told me that:

- He didn't want a divorce, he wanted to stay married
- But that he would never be intimate with me again, emotionally of physically
- And eventually we would start seeing other people, maybe
- But he wants us to be close friends and parent together
- And he was committed to his family and would always
- And we should continue to sleep in the same bed
- And our relationship as it had been was over
- But nothing should change

I spent the day with friends, went on a long walk with the dog, took care of myself that night. Then, DH and I cleaned the basement together, had dinner as a family, and acted as if things were exactly the same.

So, now what do I do? I'm going to continue working on myself, etc, but I can't decide wether or not to ask him to move to the spare room. If he wants to live as roommates, should he have to face the consequences of that, or would that be pushing him away.

All of my friends are telling me to tell him to move out of the house entirely, that he will only recognize what he has if he has to move out, but I think that is the wrong approach.

One part of me has a lot of hope. Compared to what some people on this board have described, this is pretty mild behaviour so far...

On the other hand, I have struggled in our relationship for so lon, part of me is relieved that he has proposed this sort of arrangement. Being free to date and find another relationship, while keeping the family-unit together and co-parenting in the same house is the best possible solution for our little boy. We know several couples who have done this, staying together amicably in the home while leading separate lives. Financially for both of us, and emotionally for the kid, this kind of arrangement is much better than spiltting up into two households.

BUT... I still think he is going through a MLC and that. maybe, he will come out of it. Sometimes I wish I could just SQUASH THAT HOPE. Argh! So confused.

Thanks for making it this far. I guess my question is, what should I do about the bedroom situation? I don't want to push him away, but I also don't want him to get to control EVERYTHING about how we relate, and I don't want him to dictate all the terms, where he gets his needs met and I do not.

Deep breath...

[Deep]

Heather, I'm sure many of the knowledgeable posters here will chime in soon. I think you already know this can be a great resource of information and support for you.

I think PDT et al might well mention the possibility of OW. Sounds like a setup for classic cake eating if you ask me.

2 quick questions: To the best of your knowledge, what reasons does H have for feeling hurt or wary of you? And have you decided on what your boundaries are for the M?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

That night, after spending an evening with a girlfriend, I came home to an email message telling me that he was much happier now, that he felt he would never again be vulnerable with me or want to be physically intimate with me, and that he hoped I could accept this. We talked about it the next morning, and he told me that:

- He didn't want a divorce, he wanted to stay married
- But that he would never be intimate with me again, emotionally of physically
- And eventually we would start seeing other people, maybe
- But he wants us to be close friends and parent together
- And he was committed to his family and would always
- And we should continue to sleep in the same bed
- And our relationship as it had been was over
- But nothing should change

OK, so that would work famously for MR. Heather. What does HEATHER HERSELF want?

Are you okay living in a platonic, sexless marriage? Because he's now (at least) given you clarity, about what HE wants, and what in fact expects.

I think it's time to assert your OWN agenda.

And yes, I do think there is OW. The "eventually start dating other people" thing is classic wayward b.s. for "I already have a GF, but have been keeping it hidden from you," and the "space" thing is pretty much script as well.

May I ask, what are the financial ramifications for him if he stays married to you, vs. if he doesn't? Is yours a "fault" or a "no-fault" state for divorce?

Puppy

[Steve McQueen]

One part of me has a lot of hope. Compared to what some people on this board have described, this is pretty mild behaviour so far...

I think it may be that you know half of what is really going on that is why it seems mild to you. How much have you investigated the possiblity of another woman?

BUT... I still think he is going through a MLC and that. maybe, he will come out of it. Sometimes I wish I could just SQUASH THAT HOPE. Argh! So confused.

How would you diagnosis a Mid-life Crisis? And what symptoms of MLC are also associated being involved in a secret affair?

Thanks for making it this far. I guess my question is, what should I do about the bedroom situation? I don't want to push him away, but I also don't want him to get to control EVERYTHING about how we relate, and I don't want him to dictate all the terms, where he gets his needs met and I do not.

IF you dont want to sleep with him dont sleep with him. You dont want to push him away? Hasnt he already pushed you away? The question is why and what are his real needs and how are they being met?

INVESTIGATE.

[TooLateForMe]

It's "in or out." My W gave me lots of space when I asked for it. She's the one who wants to end the M now. Tell him to pack up and go if he's not fully committed. Once you draw that line, appear to move on w/out him, he'll either try to reconnect w/ you or get on w/ his life.

You're in limbo in his ideal plan. He gets to date and sleep w/ other people and come home to you and the kid and play house? You should laugh in his face when he tells you that.

Out of the house January 5th (after the holidays). You're not his mommy. You may be a people please and if so, look up some info on codependency. Draw some lines in the sand and stick to them. My guess (from what little I know of your situation) is he'll come around when you stop being a doormat.

[Heather]

Thanks for reading, all. Lots to think about.

I know he is not having a physical affair because I know where he is. He comes home directly from work, and is home all weekend. Seriously, I am the one who is out catting around. I have a large network of friends and many outlets and hobbies. He goes out once a week to jam with his band, and otherwise is here or at work. I have encouraged him to go out but he generally doesn't.

I don't doubt that a physical affair is the next step.

I do believe he is having an emotional affair at the office. But he's chosen a pretty safe way to do that, the object of his affection is a pregnant woman who will be leaving the office soon on mat leave.

Good point about the finances. I am in Canada, and I am the stay-at-home spouse. I gave up a career in the tech industry to stay home. I would be entitled to 1/2 the assets, spousal support, and child support if we shared custody. He would have a difficult time managing joint custody because of his work hours. Staying together in the house and not divorcing is definitely to his advantage, financially and logistically.

I think he is extremely hurt and angry with me. He has been a classic "nice guy" and has been, unknown to me, going along with my wishes, letting me set the agenda sexually, and resenting it for years. He has, up until now, rarely expressed needs or desires, and gone so far as to deny having any. But he acted out, for years, in a very passive aggressive way, withholding sex but denying it, making promises and not following through, distancing himself from me, etc. Very hot and cold behaviour. It drove me nuts, and it was a long time before I started to sort things out, stopped allowing him to project his anger on me, and started being able to calmly call him on it.

Our last round of councilling resulted in him enthusiastically promising to meet my requests to be taken out once a month and promising that he was commited to me sexually. He had no requests for me except that I "intiate sex occasionally" and be "more honest" with him.

He was extremely flirty and playful, and very generous and thoughtful, planning several nice things for me, giving me gifts, and so on. I was very appreciative. It really looked like we were in a new place and that we were both recommitted to the relationship. But there were still the same basic issues. He consistently let the monthly dates slide with no explanation, didn't actually initiate sex, and was extremely passive when I initiated.

He has been having increasing difficult ejaculating, and often would be unable to orgasm. We had also been trying to conceive a second child, and unlike our first, had not been successful after several months of trying. (Thank God! I would be up the creek now if I had managed to get pregnant...!)

I started asking for an explanation. I used all my best therapy speak. After seeing that I wasn't going to drop it, he said that it was because he was under so much stress, that his work responsibilities were very great, that he had no time for himself, and that having sex with me and taking me on dates were just "more chores" and "more responsibility". He could not see why making promises and commitments and then breaking them with no explanation at all was a problem at all, and felt that I needed to be more understanding, never ask him for anything, never ask him to change hurtful behaviour, and always remind myself that he is doing his best and if he doesn't do something I shouldn't complain.

I think the comment about co-dependency is very interesting. I have been on a journey of personal discovery over the last few years, have returned to my childhood religion, have let go of a lot of control issues, become a better communicator, and learned how to calmly state boundaries and make requests. I used to be very hysterical, very prone to blaming and guilt tripping, unable to see how I was contributing to the problem. There was a lot of emotion and tears and drama and disrespect.

I'd say I have not behaved like that in well over two years, and have worked very hard at not being that person. Of course it has all been worth it, and I am a much happier more loving adult, with a great social network, hobbies, and a much more active physical life.

I have been quite honestly baffled that it didn't magically make the relationship better.

It seems that the more I present myself as an adult, the more pressure it has put on him.

Wow. Having written all that I'm not sure why exactly I want this relationship to continue. Oh, that's not true. He is a sweet, funny, generous hard-working man. He's just all messed up from a shitty childhood, has terrible coping mechanism, is terrified of intimacy, and, it seems, isn't willing to make that leap. We fed into each other's drama when we first met, but now that push has come to shove, maybe he just isn't able to meet me where I am now.

[Gardener]

Heather,

We talked about it the next morning, and he told me that:

- He didn't want a divorce, he wanted to stay married
- But that he would never be intimate with me again, emotionally of physically
- And eventually we would start seeing other people, maybe
- But he wants us to be close friends and parent together
- And he was committed to his family and would always
- And we should continue to sleep in the same bed
- And our relationship as it had been was over
- But nothing should change

THIS is "staying married'??? This is a cruel, cake-eating divorce of convenience with no ramifications or responsibilities! THIS is someone who should have his selfish little ass kicked to the curb!

So, now what do I do? I'm going to continue working on myself, etc, but I can't decide wether or not to ask him to move to the spare room. If he wants to live as roommates, should he have to face the consequences of that, or would that be pushing him away.

As is often said on this forum: Don't Leave the marital bed!. I'd move his stuff to spare room.

All of my friends are telling me to tell him to move out of the house entirely, that he will only recognize what he has if he has to move out, but I think that is the wrong approach.

Ass to the curb, Heather. See a Lawyer and then tell H what he "proposes" is not a marriage. Please leave."

Being free to date and find another relationship, while keeping the family-unit together and co-parenting in the same house is the best possible solution for our little boy.

I think this is oxymoronic at best and self-delusional at worst AND damaging to your son now and/or in the future.

I don't want to push him away, but I also don't want him to get to control EVERYTHING about how we relate, and I don't want him to dictate all the terms, where he gets his needs met and I do not.

He already has with his eight-point "proposal" (above).

Sorry for being so strident, but GRRRR!

[Heather]

Thanks everyone, the clarity was very helpful.

We had a talk this morning. He will be moving out of the marital bedroom into the spare room, and has agreed to return to couples therapy so that we have a mediator to negotiate this process. I do not trust myself to be able to set boundaries with him and make good decisions, so this is going to help me.

He also asked me to figure out how to explain the situation to our son. I replied that I agreed we needed to present a united front, and that he should think about how he wants to explain it, as this was his choice.

When he first proposed this crazy let's-be-friends plan he didn't even touch that. It seems like he is trying to figure out how he can split from me and yet not have anyone know, so he doesn't have to look like the bad guy or face any consequences.