I posted in the newcomers but needed advice

[Lll54]

I'm getting really sick of hearing that the children are too young to be hurt, and they will get through it. Yes they will get through it, but it doesn't mean they won't be hurt. Maybe not now, but they will one day. My H seems to think my 3 year old doesn't understand, but last night S3 wakes up in the middle of the night crying to me asking why daddy doesn't want to be a family anymore. I tell H and he says, "He's only 3, he doesn't get it" Really? Did you just hear what he said last night? Insensitive. Its quite sad how they can go from good fathers and caring to inconsiderate jerks. Even if they don't care about our feelings right now, what about this kids? I can relate when you say you don't have that bad of a marriage. I feel the same way. I have many friends that have been through divorce or not even and have way worse marriages than me. That's what makes it harder to accept for us. But we have to realize that we are not them. Maybe it wasn't THAT BAD for us, but maybe it was for them. It obviously had to have been or we wouldn't be in this position right now. Once we start looking at the sitch through our H's glasses we will never understand and never get through this. You obviously haven't detached either as his moods control you and I feel the same way and am working on this right now. I am told by the big wigs on here that once we detach this won't happen. I only count the days until I'm in there. Question, has he ever brought up staying somewhere else? I couldn't imagine trying to detach while living with them?

[P17]

Hmm..I was a little high on my horse last night when I posted that. I still am basing my feelings too much on what he does.

Get in the queue. I still do the same thing. My happiness is based on my W's unhappiness at the moment. When I hear how badly things are going or how people thing that it will never last (and bear in mind I don't actually know what's going on - this is just people's opinions) then I feel happier. When I think about him and her or how much fun they may be having, I get down. This is the stage I'm in today.

What you are doing is natural so don't beat yourself up about. All the vets on here have been through it. All the newbies are going through it (me included).

Last night he went back to the basement. It hurts me more now than it did to begin with. Why does this all have to be his way or the high way..

Maybe it's because it's the only thin he actually feels any control over - his life? He also probably went to the basement precisely because he knew it would hurt you. The solution to that is to not show you are hurting ... FAKE IT. If he went down there, offer to bring the blankets / sheets etc. down. Offer to make his bed down there ... show him you don't care if he goes down there at all. Make a comment about how it will be great to get the bed to yourself as you like to starfish and you're really tired.

why is he not considering anyone elses feelings..mine..the kids

Because that's just what they do. If you show compassion and understanding for other peoples feelings then you need to open your heart a little to be able to do that. If you open your heart, you open yourself and you become vulnerable. He won't do that.

( he continues to say d does not hurt the children..they are too young to remember, 5 and almost 2)

I think Britt54 replied to that best. It does hurt kids regardless of their age. He is just saying that so he doesn't have to face up to it. It's script.

We honestly do not have that bad of a marriage now.

I thought the same. I think all BS's probably do. However the difference for me was that I said to my W that I thought our M was 9/10 and she said she thought a 7/10 - now for me, 7/10 is still a bl**dy good M that deserves fighting for. I don't know whether she was simply saying that to spare my feelings but considering the way she said and the complete disregard for my feelings anyway, I don't see it.

What you have to see though as that WAS's, from my limited experience on here, seem to like to delude themselves that the M is fine and there are no problems. I just have seen it as a trait. They hate talking about the real problems and love throwing the towel in far too early than actually working on the problems. Again, it's a trait (or maybe a personality flaw). Some WAS's wake up and realise what they have done and change. Some don't. The ones that don't will continue to have the same problems in EVERY SINGLE RELATIONSHIP until they meet somebody who can fill whatever strange need they have.

Really..except for the fact that he says he cannot trust me or I will never be someone he can talk to..whatever the HELL that means. I dont know..I just know I am not sure how much more I can put up with..he does still control my moods very much!

Remember we spoke about the 'can't trust you' stuff above. Just ignore it.

My opinion of this is keep the H in the basement and try and get space from him. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to detach from somebody who is still living with you.

[25yearsmlc]

what's up with all this "can't trust you" crap? I mean really even if it were an A, if he insists on tossing it into your face every chance then yes, there is no hope b/c he can't let go and move on, let alone forgive. Good grief, MOVE ON ALREADY! How long do you have to wear a hair shirt for your crimes against humanity? If you are so intolerable and your mortal sins so grave, then get the div and get out...

But if not,if maybe you are both flawed humans who need to learn a rarely taught skill--called forgiveness--then maybe there's hope. But the endless flailing has to stop. It's toxic.

Good luck, and by the way, the "secret" to forgiveness is giving it, which takes daily work sometimes. But by modeling it, maybe he'll learn to do it too. Then the scorecards can be tossed away and a truly fresh start can begin. OTherwise you are prolonging the inevitable I fear...just mho.

((( j )))

[swimmingupstream]

I agree. 100% agree. I need to forgive him. Everytime I hopen my heart to him again he does something like go back in the basement. Sat. night, he came into bed with me and then Sunday it was right back to the basement again. I did not do anything to make him not trust me. I would never cheat on him, I did not leave him...it is stupid stuff..He was going to law school, I could not find a full time job and so he blamed me for the fact that he had to drop out. Alcoholics blame. As for the forgiveness, I will have to work on it daily. I agree. I blame myself for everything but I feel so responsible, for our finances, for making sure our house is clean, for everything. He goes to work, comes home, watches the kids and drinks...he could care less about me. I wish I knew what I did that was so awful. He has trust issues that stem from his childhood, I cannot fix that, he has to. I can toss the scorecard but I am afraid that he forgets NOR forgives anything..so I am tarnished..there is no fixing this marriage...I agree with you..I just do not want to admit it. I told him he has to forgive the past and move on..

[P17]

I agree. 100% agree. I need to forgive him. Everytime I hopen my heart to him again he does something like go back in the basement. Sat. night, he came into bed with me and then Sunday it was right back to the basement again.

Solution to that - don't let him back in the bed unless he plans to STAY there. Moving back and forth is a little childish.

I did not do anything to make him not trust me. I would never cheat on him, I did not leave him...

Maybe that was the problem. He knew you would always be there and took that for granted.

He goes to work, comes home, watches the kids and drinks

Is that not a very bad idea - drink and kids do not mix. What lesson is it teaching them?

he could care less about me.

Then why does he still stay there and feel so much guilt for what he has done to you?

I wish I knew what I did that was so awful.

This isn't about you, it's about him. You didn't do anything that was so awful. He is just trying to punish you for the pain he feels. He does that by making you feel the same way he is.

there is no fixing this marriage

While you are both still alive, there is always hope.

[25yearsmlc]

I agree. 100% agree. I need to forgive him. Everytime I hopen my heart to him again he does something like go back in the basement. Sat. night, he came into bed with me and then Sunday it was right back to the basement again. I did not do anything to make him not trust me. I would never cheat on him, I did not leave him...it is stupid stuff..He was going to law school, I could not find a full time job and so he blamed me for the fact that he had to drop out. Alcoholics blame. As for the forgiveness, I will have to work on it daily. I agree. I blame myself for everything but I feel so responsible, for our finances, for making sure our house is clean, for everything. He goes to work, comes home, watches the kids and drinks...he could care less about me. I wish I knew what I did that was so awful. He has trust issues that stem from his childhood, I cannot fix that, he has to. I can toss the scorecard but I am afraid that he forgets NOR forgives anything..so I am tarnished..there is no fixing this marriage...I agree with you..I just do not want to admit it. I told him he has to forgive the past and move on..

first off, I put myself thru law school so wth is up with that? What diff does it make whether YOU worked full time to put him thru? Why'd that become YOUR responsibility? tell him to go back if he wants it so bad; there are night programs....

Next, I'm STILL Not clear on the trust issue. HE says HE cannot trust YOU? When he says he doesn't know if he can trust you, is he insane? Or is he referring to something specific? Come on. What's he talking about? While it may be idiotic small stuff, at least we could help you but if he is totally making stuff up, then he's nuts.

What is it?
j-

PS WHat is it you need to forgive him for? Did he have an A or what? I keep hearing about trust on both sides but what is it you are referring to? Changing moods and going back and forth are not really trust issues so much as consistency to me. Seems to reflect confusion or passive aggressive behaviors or both...not sure "trust" is a word I'd used here. You tell us though...what's up?

[swimmingupstream]

Okay..to answer your first question...I said I would get a full time job...in march they offered full time at my work but we had no one to watch my s and at the time my d. H was still working...he acutally quit a month early and I was trying to be the supportive wife and said okay..I have not been great about paying the bills and have not been honest about them..mainly because we did not have the money and I just am crappy at paying bills. I am a HORRIBLE money manager but after all of this happend I showed him EVERYTHING we owed..So he talked to his sister and she said she manages her money and why can't I and she cannot believe I got behind on our mortgage, how could I do that to our family. I will be honest, I did screw up the bills and made promises I could not keep but only because we do not have a ton of money. We both have degrees but work crap jobs. Not much I can do about that. I have to work a crappy split shift to avoid daycare so I cannot be home at night.
So...here is where the trust issues with HIM he said started. 5 years ago..that is right..I said 5 freaking years ago after having my daughter I lost control, I could not function, I was scared, he was working late at night and then school in the morning, long story short I had ppd or anxiety or a nervous breakdown and had to live with my parents during the week, I would not drive or work or do anything, I was a mess..This lasted a few months, in which I collected short term disability. My H lost his job and my parents suggested we move in with them( he said when I was sick and living with him I abanonded him and how could I do that to him)..so we did and he said that was the beginning of the end of our marriage. I went back to school, he was mad about it..it took almost 2 1/2 years of living with my parents until I finally got all of our finances together, cleaned up our credit and made sure we bought a house. I have asked my H repeatdly to help with the finances in which he said he would but never did. I overeacted so many times to so many things...maybe that is a trust issue with him..he could not trust my emotions..but he did a lot of things to make me NOT trust him. He had left me numerous times in the past. When we first were dating he left me at our apartment and cleaned ALL of his stuff out...This could get SO much longer..I blame myself for ALL of it. I always will no matter what anyone tells me..I feel SO SO very responsible..for his emotional or whatever affair 3 years ago..but since then I have changed..ALOT...I am still working on the finance thing..but keep in mind his little law school adventure cost us ALOT of money! I have supported him since day 1..he had no job, no driver lisc. NOTHING when we first got together. I loved him so I did not care..I acutally helped him get his financial aid back, his driver's lisc, I have found him every job he has had..I was PATHETIC! I do not nag, beg or grovel now..I dont care..but I do feel responsible for the failure of our marriage. It is sad..that I did not hear him before..but the one thing I got out of all of this is ME..I am back..I am starting to feel at peace for once in my life..except for my need to understand why he does not love me of course. But I feel free from the obsessing about OW or him or what he is doing during his day..I dont care anymore. He has hurt me so many times..He used to apologize. I wish I had a magic wand to fix the utter financial mess we are in but I do not..Luckily my mom has agreed to show me the way on that front..He sister has played a HUGE part in this..saying I was controlling and kept him away from his family..BS! really! I invited her everywhere! I have been NOTHING but nice to her. So the trust thing comes from me and not keeping my word about the finances and law school and whatever the heck. Oh..I think you pushed my buttons..I am pretty ticked right now..not at anyone here..just him. I hate carrying this around with me every day..I want the weight to be lifted and to be free again...but I cannot. I cannot make money or trust appear in his life. I did enroll him in a Masters program and scheudled the test which he did take and fixed his financial aid..

[swimmingupstream]

He says the trust issue has to do with our fiances I guess and the fact that I was WAS not now was controlling. He said I am not someone he could ever talk to of course only when he is drunk I know more about him than his family does..he said the only time he can talk to me is when he is drunk. I do not understand why he is holding a grudge against me. He said once someone breaks his trust that is the end..he will never trust them again. I am sure it has to do with the finances and moving in with my parents..my mom thinks that is bs because we never would have made it through school if we had not done that. But he will NEVER forgive me for that. I know him..once he has his mind made up that is IT! This is a HUGE cross to bear for me..holding the reponsibilty of keeping the house clean, paying the bills, doing taxes...the oNLY thing he does for our family...the ONLY thing is works at a temp agency with NO benefits, takes out the trash and every now and then mows the grass...three nights a week he "watches" our kids..does not feed them or bathe them...the other two nights my mom has them while he works. My mom and dad and family have given and given and given to him..he is not appreciatve..he just blames..me for his whole life! He hates me and is disgusted by me..he has said it SO many times. I guess I should have been consistent with the bills instead of shopped my bad feelings away! Which he gladly tells me I did..which in part I did. I know what I did wrong..but one thing I did right..supported him every step of the way, believed in him, I NEVER cheated or looked at ANYONE else, and I never LEFT HIM...NEVER..I think to myself sometimes..what has he done for me...really?? besides two children what has he done for me? He does not support me in anything I do. OH I am SO FIRED up right now:) I really am a good person..I try to help people in every way I can..In a way I was protecting him so we could have the kind of family I had growing up..but he is never going to be able to give me that because my dad was a good honest man who worked his tail off so we could go to catholic schools and college and live in a nice neighborhood..I want the same for my children..they have a nice middle class neighborhood and catholic schools but we dont take vacations or get to do half the stuff I got to do...My h is 35 years old and works for a temp agency and he fails to communicate with me about anything..and THAT is not my fault..I have changed and it has been 3 months but he does not care..it is too late..the damage has been done..again my cross to bear!

[swimmingupstream]

PS WHat is it you need to forgive him for? Did he have an A or what? I keep hearing about trust on both sides but what is it you are referring to? Changing moods and going back and forth are not really trust issues so much as consistency to me. Seems to reflect confusion or passive aggressive behaviors or both...not sure "trust" is a word I'd used here. You tell us though...what's up?

I need to forgive him for the emotional abuse that he has put me through the last 10 years..telling me I am fat, ugly, stupid, a shrew..why would anyone want me...Blaming me for EVERYTHING. He left me many times, even if just for a night. He flirted with women in front of me...He told me last christmas eve when I asked him to put together a baby crib for our d that he hates me, he will always hate me and when he wakes up in the morning and he is sober his feeling would not change, it was 1 in the morning and I just wanted our D to have a nice christmas, I was afraid she would wake up and see that her crib was in a box...I cried and cried myself to sleep on christmas eve..He had a supposed emotional or PA with my best friend..in which I will NEVER know because they could NEVER tell the truth..when I confronted him he left, said our M was over, would not answer my calls or tell me where he was...he cleaned out our bank account the next day..I know she called him 3 times that night. We reconciled..bought our house, got preg with S and the rest is history..he did nothing to make me feel secure or even tell me the truth..it was the same story..nothing happened..when I knew something did..even if they talked..the truth really could have helped..

[P17]

Your H needs help.

You need to forgive him for YOU. Nothing else. There are three sides to every story I know but if what you're saying has an ounce of truth he needs help ...