He wants me to agree to share house forever

[Lotus]

Face it, you are in an abusive relationship. Your H just wants his way, whatever that is, and you will always be wrong. Take responsibility for breaking up an abusive relationship and move on to greener pastures.

[TrentC]

Oh, for heaven's sakes, stop it. I know all about "I" statements.

But you seem to have trouble with figuring out if the BS "proposal" your H is offering you is reasonable or not.

So forgive us for taking a training-wheels approach to start with.

[Heather]

I see your point. Maybe I have Stockholm Syndrome.

But what is the difference between my situation and one where the spouse moves down the hall into the spare bedroom? I mean the question sincerely. Is it because my husband is telling me what he wants, rather than just moving down the hall and not saying anything?

[TrentC]

But what is the difference between my situation and one where the spouse moves down the hall into the spare bedroom? I mean the question sincerely. Is it because my husband is telling me what he wants, rather than just moving down the hall and not saying anything?

Well, we do say all of the time to "believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do". So just because he says he doesn't love you, doesn't want to be married, etc. doesn't mean that's how things will end up.

At the same time, that "offer" was offensive on its face. The way you described it, he's telling you "I want to have the perks of being married to you without putting any of the work into it. So take it or leave it."

That, coupled with "I make promises without intending to keep them", "I resent that you just went along with my dinner arrangements without complaint", and the "if you don't do it my way, you're responsible for us breaking up" shows a extreme lack of respect for you, his wife.

That was why I suggested pushing back on him, and hard. He will not respect you if you fall all over yourself (and deny your own needs) to make him happy. Sure, he'll bluster and argue. Yes, he'll get mad and blame you. But right now, it sounds like you have nothing to lose, because you're heading for divorce if you don't.

[TrentC]

I see your point. Maybe I have Stockholm Syndrome.

Between this and the comment about "I" statements, I'm curious; do you have a background in counseling or therapy?

[Heather]

Ha!

No, I've just done a lot of reading. Classic over-compensating fixer behaviour.

Sigh... I really wanted this marriage to work.

[TrentC]

Sigh... I really wanted this marriage to work.

There's no reason it can't. But the only power you really have to fix things is to change yourself.

Like I said -- the idea that he can propose that kind of arrangement with a straight face indicates that he has lost a lot of respect for you. It's hard to be in love with someone that you do not respect.

You need to be someone that he can respect -- and that starts with calling him on that BS.

Remember, just because you file the paperwork for divorce does not mean that it is a done deal.

[Heather]

Oh, man, this is going to be rough. He's pretty obstructive at the best of times, if I have to sell this house with him actively working against me...

I got him out of the bedroom.... Babystep towards standing up for myself?

I bought all the "poor me" stuff for years. It's just hard to believe that sunny optimism, support, honesty and openness weren't enough to transform the beast. Too many fairy tales, maybe. I've also got a bad case of Christianity, which I think complicates things for me.

Ok, it's good to hear what I don't want to hear... My counciller is hoping I'll figure it out on my own.

[TrentC]

Oh, man, this is going to be rough. He's pretty obstructive at the best of times, if I have to sell this house with him actively working against me...

He sounds kinda selfish. Is he always like this, or is this just after the bomb was dropped?

I got him out of the bedroom.... Babystep towards standing up for myself?

Yes, but standing up for yourself works better in big doses. You may have gotten breathing room, but it probably didn't do much to start changing his opinion of you.

I bought all the "poor me" stuff for years. It's just hard to believe that sunny optimism, support, honesty and openness weren't enough to transform the beast.

Well, if you married him with the idea that you could "fix" him, then that might be part of the problem.

The way to DB this is to stop worrying about the R. Take a long look at yourself, decide what you want to improve for yourself.

Let him figure out if you are someone he wants to be married to. But you shouldn't have to settle, either.

[Heather]

Ok, walk me through it, if you would.

When we went into MC for the first time two years ago, the issues for me were that he was avoiding me, seemed depressed, didn't initiate or even seem to enjoy sex very much, and hadn't taken me out in years. MC introduced the idea of H being passive, encouraged me to make clearer goals, encouraged me to stop "trying" so hard. H denied having any needs, but wanted me to be "more honest" with him. Came out of MC with a renewed commitment, some communication techniques, and I was more confident about setting limits, and more capable of pointing out when limits had been crossed in a calm way. H was very generous, did nice thoughtful things, seemed happier, seemed to be taking responsibily for his own life.

I did a lot of GALing during this period. I had read "getting through to the man you love". So in the last three or four years I have:

gone back to church
learned about non-violent communication
got a dog and walked him for 1hr a day
started funk dancing
built two 8x10 raised beds and started gardening
mastered housekeeping, going from chaos to relaxed and tidy
etc.

And I have been trying to set limits with my passive-agressive spouse. I think the easiest thing to point to is the dates. I asked if he would be willing to take me out once a month. He agreed, but never actually did it. Would do something lovely one month, let it slide for two. I would point out that I noticed, ask him what he thought was going on, he'd make an excuse, do something extravagant, let it slide again.

So what were the consequences of his actions? Hm. After pointed out again that I noticed, I finally dragged him back into MC (I had been going on my own and was coming up on my last few sessions, which I guess gave me a deadline). We talked about it in front of our MC and he came out with that he felt so stressed from work, and had so little time for himself, that what I was asking of him was a chore and another responsibilty and there was no joy in it. He said even watch tv in the evenings with me felt pressuring.

That was six months ago. I agreed to back off, I love the dude, I could see he felt overwhelmed, it seemed reasonable to me.

The limits I set were that I was not going to initiate sex, that when we did start having sex it couldn't just be one sided BJs, and that I wasn't going to initiate couple time. He's always been great about doing things as a family, it's the one-on-one stuff that he chokes on.

More GALing. Started going out in the evenings more often, started running, registered to take a masters level theology course. No movement from him.

He would communicate occasionally through email. He through out the word "separation", I told him I was sorry he felt that way, and otherwise ignored it.

I stopped doing his laundry.

I remained upbeat, even though I was worried.

So, two weeks ago, I sat him down and told him I missed him, but that I wasn't suffering with all this free time, and that I wanted things to work out. Now, I can see looking back that a hard line might (would) have been more effective, but i one misstep does invalidate my efforts... So, wack me if you must but it would be kind if you could wrap it in a little sympathy.

That was what prompted the last email from him when he told me he would "never be physically or emotionally intimate" with me ever again, that he would always take care of me, that he was exhausted from meeting my expectations, and he hoped I could accept that "in my heart".

I actually had to drag out of him what he wanted, that we should live in the house together, that he wOuld always finacially support me, but that the marriage was over. At that point I said I needed a mediator to go through this process, and we were back in MC within the week. We've had one session.

So, I know he's passive-aggressive. I've been trying to manage that with limits and clearly asking for what I want, encouraging him to make choices, pointing out logical consequences, etc. I think my new consistant behaviour here might be what is putti g the pressure on him.

Ahhhhhh!

Ok, having written it all out, yeah... Push back hard. It's not like I could go back to to the way things were. I don't want to be married to him if occasionally having sex and going out once a month and expecting him to meet his commitments are "unreasonable" expectations...

This co-living proposal is throwing me for a loop. One, it gets me where I hurt, my devotion to my family. Two, it's almost a cultural thing. We live in a large urban city, there are all kinds of different living arrangements, this sort of thing would not be unique. If he had approached me humbly and openly, I might even have gone for it. But as it is, I do see it as a frantic effort to get me back in line without giving anything up.

I'm not quite clear on what to do next. We're back in MC (unMC?) on Friday.

Do I have to file for divorce and force a division of property?

Thanks, if you made it this far.

That was six months ago.