I am the same way. I want to know everything. I feel I have a puzzle and I am missing pieces. Not in the center but STILL I WANT IT complete damn it!!
BUT, in your case, right now, she is NOT refusing to tell you all you need to know. She is trying to avoid it, if possible, see how far she can go without admitting all her wrong doings. She is probably scared and ashamed and and and... Make it clear to her, sit back and let her decide what she wants to do.
Love your advice. You are not a prick. You are realistic and take a good hard line about boundaries.
It seems that you got the bomb (Oct 2007) and discovery of PA (Dec 2007) around the same time as myself. I filed Jan 2008 because of her exposing the kids to her PA. My divorce was final on Dec 2008 (a year ago). She flip flopped during the year long divorce process and asked for another chance a week before it was final.
Like yourself, I did not see any effort on her part to take accountability, explain herself, or make the changes necessary to have a possible reconciliation. I felt she was just asking for a second chance mainly to save face. I let the divorce finalize and am a happy camper to this day. My XW got married to one of the OM this last week. It is strange in that she is 38 and he is 69.
I may not have the success you have on the dating front since I am a bit introverted of a guy. I am not out to score, but am looking for a strong long term relationship with intimacy. I am cautious now about jumping into intimacy too quick as that is not a good way to start a long term relationship.
I think your wife is having a major panic attack. She probably feels like she is drowning because of her stupid actions over the last 2-3 years. You know that you cant save her by being the fallback guy. Could she change? Possibly. Has her prior history shown ability to become an open book? No. She still wont come clean about the affairs. There is no way MC is possible until she reaches a point of willingness to be transparent in everything. She would need personal counseling first.
And I agree that you cant continue in limbo and letting your children get the idea from their mother that it is ok to be a cake eater. Let me ask you, if you had no children, would you still be legally married to your wife?
part of wanting to know is the large circle of friends we have, I don't want to be the clueless dummy that never found that one of his guy friends had an affair with his wife - so that's part of it.
My feelings exactly. H still doenst understand why that is important. I dont want to be the one people are talking behind her back. I want to be able to look them in the eye and make it clear, there is NOTHING about H they know and I dont..
I want her to tell me what she did and who she did "it" with.
In the end I have no pre-conceived notions, I look at it as just another man's penis coming in contact with my wife's vagina and when it's placed in such a clinical context, it's not as bad as saying a PHYSICAL AFFAIR took place.
But yeah I want to know.
I want to know who, how long the affair(s) lasted, what happened to cause them to fail, in the end I'm not anyone's 2nd choice and if this is all because she can't find anyone else right now, I'm not filler in between the last affair and the next show.
And yes I hear you, maybe my curiousity won't be satisfied but I won't live with that type of unknown in my life. I want full disclosure, I want transparency, I want the cell phone unlocked, I want to read the texts and I want to do it on the spot so there is message erasing and cleaning her tracks before she comes clean.
Call me curious george but sometimes a monkey wants to know.
Have you asked for these requests? Response?
Does she know it's non-negotiable?
What's her reluctance?
Her reluctance... she is scared, the game is over, she knows I'm for real and I'm not budging on this issue. And looking from her point of view, if she feels guilty for what she's done (and she does, if it were any clearer, it would be written on her forehead) and scared to admit the details of what she has done - aren't we all afraid to admit the bad things we've done if we've done them to someone who we love?
I've told her it's non-negotiable.
Yes I've asked, the responses I get are varied and include "I can't tell you and it's not as bad as you think...." and obviously that isn't good enough for me, you or anyone else who would ever have to go through this.
Plus I've had my suspicions about a possible affair that happened several years ago before the bomb and she's tight lipped about that as well. As my eyes start to open about all of this her mouth starts to lock down pretty tight!
part of wanting to know is the large circle of friends we have, I don't want to be the clueless dummy that never found that one of his guy friends had an affair with his wife - so that's part of it.
My feelings exactly. H still doenst understand why that is important. I dont want to be the one people are talking behind her back. I want to be able to look them in the eye and make it clear, there is NOTHING about H they know and I dont..
Rob, I don't think you commented on my thread but I have been solidly behind you on many of your posts to others.
I disagree with mindfull re: knowing about the affairs. The details matter because she will not talk about them. It's just more deceit, especially if you know about them through your own intel and she continues to deny. I know that I firmly believe the lying hurts more than the cheating. If she won't come clean now how would you ever start to trust or believe her again?
My two cents would echo the others, although I think I see where you're coming from. What exactly would you want to see from her before considering reconciliation? Have you given her this list?
If she balks at any of the requirements then she's made the choice.
Last edited by pearlharbr; 12/22/0908:59 PM.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
I told you, we are in a very similar phase (apart the SEX damn it!). And I am telling you, after all they've done and all the lies they said, it would be a fairy tale ending if they came and spilled their guts out. Human nature is against it. H did, some at least, only when he couldnt deny anything anymore. He told me he couldnt admitt he had been lying for so long, he felt it would hurt me (!!!) and not solve anything... He is getting it now but I tell you, he is having a VERY hard time doing it and sometimes I feel like I am pulling teeth...
Because, the way I see it, the kind of honesty you need, will be a long process, and I dont think she is refusing that. I think she is -in her panick- trying some "damage control". It's not easy to "list" your affairs, admit you've been a liar and at the moment she doesnt sound very stable to be able to tell right from wrong or realise the long term benefit of coming clean.
No, it won't be easy. It is, nonetheless, essential. Why should he believe she regrets what she's done when she can't even be open about what she's done? I understand that it's a process, but it's been what? two years? How long does it take before she will be prepared to be open about her past actions? "Damage control" is the problem. Unless she abandons all forms of attempted control and basically throws herself on his mercy, I don't call that remorse.
(this is assuming, rob, that you do have really reliable intel about her actions so you are *sure* she's not being forthcoming....)
There is no way to rebuild a decent relationship without -- I don't want to use the word "brutal", but yeah, that -- honesty and detailed self-revelation of faults from both parties. IMHO. If she's not there yet, then I wouldn't advocate reconciling. Otherwise, you run a good risk of finding yourself right back here in a couple of years. Again, IMHO.
Of course, no need or reason to be cold or compassionless towards her in the day-to-day.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Rob, I don't think you commented on my thread but I have been solidly behind you on many of your posts to others.
I disagree with mindfull re: knowing about the affairs. The details matter because she will not talk about them. It's just more deceit, especially if you know about them through your own intel and she continues to deny. I know that I firmly believe the lying hurts more than the cheating. If she won't come clean now how would you ever start to trust or believe her again?
My two cents would echo the others, although I think I see where you're coming from. What exactly would you want to see from her before considering reconciliation? Have you given her this list?
If she balks at any of the requirements then she's made the choice.
I agree Pearl, that's exactly what I'm talking about, she acknowledges that PA's occurred, she's just not giving me any details because she doesn't want to make me angry - seriously I'm not angry, in fact during these past 2 discussions I was so cool I was an ice cube, no worries!
Word of caution being a step ahead of you having agreed to try and turn this around: I am now in a state of mind where no matter what I know (hacked her and his email accounts), I feel there is more and more and more... I am forcing myself to follow the advice of a book (dont know which one anymore-I can send you all the "after the affair" online books available), that wisely suggested, "ask what you need that is important, stick to basics in the beginning and then insist on details that are necessary for you to move on". It's like peeling an onion. And it stinks!!!
