Yes it's your dear old "uncle rob" (the forum prick you love to hate) ;-) and I'm looking for advice....
It's been a while since I shared a bit about my own situation. I started out on these forums spilling my guts and getting alot of good feedback and then I decided to pay it forward when my personal life started improving to the point where the outcome of my marriage/divorce didn't matter as much to me, I detached from that outcome and enjoyed my life and seriously it has been good, I would dare say that 2009 was one of the best years ever regardless of my current situation.
I kicked my wife out in January 2009 when I couldn't handle the lies & deception anymore, she lives with her parents now. We have 2 children that we share custody of, at first she had dictated when I would see them and then I stood up for myself, did the legal thing and secured my rights as a human being and a parent (note I never mentioned my rights as a man, I have the same rights as a woman, no more, no less).
Even kicking her out, she had been a constant in my life throughout alot of 2009. I found out about an EA/PA she had at the beginning of January 2008 (a year before) which was a couple months after I had rec'd the "bomb" (ILYBINILWY) and all the good bits that go with that WAW script (you all know it, no need to repeat it). We did alot of things together with the children and sometimes separate of them as well, I can say that I have had more sex with my wife during my separation than I have ever had during my entire marriage preceeding the separation - not just any sex, I'm talking the kind of unrestricted XXX butt wild monkey love that I used to only imagine in my dreams. We went on trips together but also have fought like cats & dogs and she continued to do things that would disrespect me and I would continue establish my boundaries which she would try to cross over and I would hold my ground until she backed off & apologized for whatever rude behavior she was displaying.
Great sex is great but after a while I wanted more, not needed but wanted. I got in great shape, took care of myself & my appearance, my personal value skyrocketed, I haven't felt so good about myself in such a long time and really became quite passionate about the topic of being a great person & a great man to all of my friends that were going through similar situations, I became the go to guy, the friends that needed help couldn't get enough of me, the advice I give them is counter-intuitive to anything they think they should be doing and it gave them better results than what they had been doing. I've almost considered setting up a website and writing a book on the stuff that I know that actually produces results.
However after living in limbo for 2 years, I knew that not every situation could be fixed, regardless of my new found education in this area, I wasn't so egotistical to believe I had the magic touch to cure everything. But I had enough personal strength to know that my life was worth it, to start over and make something great with someone new.
At the beginning of November I told my wife that I wouldn't be living in limbo anymore. She either committed 100% wholeheartedly to repairing our relationship and making a great marriage or I would be cutting off contact with her, no more sex, no more going out, no more coming over, I told her she HAD to have the kids 50% of the time (even though we have joint custody, I would usually have them @ 80% of the time due to her part-time job schedule, me living close to the school and being able to work from home, etc) and that this is how life will be going forward. I told her I would put the house up for sale in the spring, pay off our debts, split all of our assets 50/50, file for divorce, get an apartment for the kids & myself for a year or so, and then look for a new home in the same area to allow the kids to keep going to the same school.
Her decision was that she wasn't ready to make that decision, after 2 years of living in limbo, I was. You see it wasn't just about me anymore, I realized that this was a horrible thing that my kids were learning, they were seeing that this is what relationships are about, mom & dad living separately but still being together every now & then, with mom staying for weeks at a time and then being away for weeks at a time and I just wouldn't tolerate that anymore. I made the decision to end living in limbo, I DECIDED that I had enough of this. I DECIDED that I would move on and enjoy my life and whatever it would bring me. I started packing up whatever household items belong to her (she only took the clothes that I packed in her van) and placed them in boxes and request to her to pick them up. I have started cancelling credit cards that have both of our names on them that have $0 debt on them, any mail that comes to the home that is meant for her, I contact the sender and update them with her parents address, I've changed the look of the home to make it our place, in general just moving on.
I started dating in mid to late November, just to get used to it again and it wasn't difficult, I found that I was pretty unique amongst most of the guys on the dating website that I signed up for, for the first time in my life, I was popular with the ladies, I go a ton of first dates, alot of 2nd dates (and 3rd dates), no sex, it's not that I couldn't have sex, I just want to save that part of me for someone I wanted to have a relationship with. I was having quasi-daily sex with my wife for the past 1.5 years without any real emotional connection and I wanted that so I didn't mind holding out (I have also discovered that holding out sex from women that want to have sex with you pretty much makes them extremely "hungry", I'm in my late 30's and I have been dating women in ages ranging from 25 to 40).
FYI - Throughout all of this I've been an uber responsible parent, my personal life (ie. dating) isn't part of my children's reality, I keep it separate from them and I only date on those days that I don't have my kids and I never bring my dates home with me. I've kicked up my parenting ability another notch and the bar was already pretty high and the kids and I have been living a great life for the past year, they are young and now more than ever, they want the security of a strong family/parent(s) and it's my job to give that to them. I've discussed the separation & divorce with them, told my wife what we were discussing, offered her to come & discuss this with me because they want to talk to her about it all the time and she refuses to do that. My children ultimately want their family to be together but they are learning and I've been loving & nurturing with them, I always reassure them that we will be ok and we will. I am always happy with them, we have a ton of fun together and I'm showing them that I'm happy, because I want them to learn how to be happy as well.
Well enough of that hoopla, seriously I could go on & on with the story and it's details but I will fast forward to yesterday and today.
My wife came over yesterday to drop off the kids for the week, I have the kids on the 24th and she will have them on the 25th, this is something we both decided on together. I told the kids to say bye to their mom, to give her hugs & kisses before she goes but she decided to stay and asked me if she could talk to me for a bit. She wanted to talk to me in what was our bedroom, she closed the door behind her, I was just standing in front of her and she started crying. She misses me, she loves me, she wants to come back, she is sorry for everything she has done, she knows she caused the bulk of the problems, she wasn't "well" (referring to some depression she was dealing with and still is), asks me if I still love her. Honestly I just stood in front of her without too much emotion and asked her how could she do this before christmas, I told her this was all just feelings spurred on by christmas and that they will pass, she has always been like this in the past and then she flip flops back & forth to "I didn't mean it, I don't know why I said this, etc." I told her that I felt bad that she was sad and feeling like this but it wasn't being fair to me to put on this display before christmas, told her I was moving on and that I'm ok with how everything is going because life is good and it's going in the direction that I want it to go in. She got angry, raised her voice, said some hurtful things, left the home, slammed the storm door, etc.
She came over today, wash rinse repeat, same behavior as yesterday, same thing, the crying, tears, I love you, I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you, etc. I mentioned to her why she refused to reconciling a couple of months ago when I told her that I was done waiting and she said because she was stupid and didn't know what she wanted, etc. I told her that plain & simple, the person that I'm with will know what they have when they're with me and won't take it for granted and that she's been taking me for granted forever and I couldn't tolerate her EA/PA when it happened along with multiple other repeat behaviors over the past 2 years - I wasn't her doormat and I wouldn't just let come back into my life so easily, I would be stupid if I allowed that and I'm not that person anymore. She cried some more, professed her love to me, asked to hug me and hold me and I did feel bad for her but I reminded her that I told her that this day would come and when it did it would be too late for her. I also told her that I was tired of her lying to me, constantly deceiving, hiding things, and I could never tolerate that in my life. I even told her to spill the beans on the guys that I know that she had affairs with and she still couldn't spill the beans, she had to hold on to those lies, telling me it wasn't as bad as I assumed it was (how bad does it have to be?!) and she told me that even if she told me the details, how would she know for certain I would take her back - my reply was pretty much "Well you know for certain that I'm not taking back someone who is dishonest & lying to my face, you have my 100% guarantee on that", the conversation continued for a bit like this and I told her that she was just repeating the same thing over & over again and lying to me was just her attempt to control me and my reactions to what she had done and I wouldn't put up with that anymore. She mentioned "marriage counselling" and I told her that it's only good when people are honest about what they've done and then I asked her to leave because I was busy and needed to get back to work. She told me she loved me several more time, asked to hug me again and left in tears, I did feel bad for her but I wasn't going to let real or crocodile tears give her the "Get out of Jail" card for free.
Without honesty there is nothing and my life is too good right now to go back into a relationship/marriage that is filled with lies. She has since called me more than a dozen times today apologizing for calling too many times and then repeating the same conversations and she has been texting me/emailing me constantly - I don't want to say it's scary but its certainly getting uncomfortable.
Feedback, comments, suggestions. (saying that this post is too long to read is cool too, I can take it)
If you ask me if I love her, I'll tell you I do.
But I can't allow lies & dishonesty back in my life, after purging that filth from my life I can pretty much guarantee you and anyone else that I won't live with that anymore and I don't want to be anyone that doesn't value me or the relationship they have with me.
I've added my personal touch to a few of your threads, now I'm looking for some feedback on my own situation. If you have some 2x4's to throw my way please do so if you think I've acted in error. Seriously though, I've never been this confident in my life, I never backed down during any of this, even when the conversations took some tangents and she started getting rude & angry, I held my position without being an a$$hole and I could tell she knew that.
p.s. It's taken me over an hour to write this post in between the constant texting & phone calls she's been sending my way.
What will it take for you to believe she is being honest with you?
What else is in the way of reconciliation?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
rob, why exactly you refuse to give it another chance? Forgive me if I am slow, but what exactly is what you are missing? Honesty? Because, the way I see it, the kind of honesty you need, will be a long process, and I dont think she is refusing that. I think she is -in her panick- trying some "damage control". It's not easy to "list" your affairs, admit you've been a liar and at the moment she doesnt sound very stable to be able to tell right from wrong or realise the long term benefit of coming clean.
How about making sure she understands your prerequisites while making sure she is clear what is acceptable and not.
I've been living in a similar situation with my H (apart the sex thing). I dont know if anything he would tell me right now would satisfy my need for "justice" and total honesty. And he HAS been answering questions (couldnt deny the A, I have hard proof in my hands). K
Ok, seriously, if you KNOW she had a/an/several EA/PA's, what do the details matter, after the fact? If you think she's in one NOW, then I guess I understand...
I'm thinking a bit of your own advice is needed. Like... OK, I'm willing to work on this, w/these conditions... Give her the list... letter of no contact, transparency, moving into this slowly, re-building the trust, etc... Tell her, if any one of these conditions makes you hesitate, then, no dice.
I understand you're still harboring the resentment from her lies and overall dishonesty, but if she's willing to move on, together, with your boundaries in place, then forgive her, and see where it gets you.
Just my two cents.
Glad to have an update from you. You are an amazing man.
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
I want her to tell me what she did and who she did "it" with.
In the end I have no pre-conceived notions, I look at it as just another man's penis coming in contact with my wife's vagina and when it's placed in such a clinical context, it's not as bad as saying a PHYSICAL AFFAIR took place.
But yeah I want to know.
I want to know who, how long the affair(s) lasted, what happened to cause them to fail, in the end I'm not anyone's 2nd choice and if this is all because she can't find anyone else right now, I'm not filler in between the last affair and the next show.
And yes I hear you, maybe my curiousity won't be satisfied but I won't live with that type of unknown in my life. I want full disclosure, I want transparency, I want the cell phone unlocked, I want to read the texts and I want to do it on the spot so there is message erasing and cleaning her tracks before she comes clean.
Call me curious george but sometimes a monkey wants to know.
And yes I'm tired of the lies, I want a decent dosage of honesty from her before considering anything with her, I want her to volunteer that stuff and I don't want to offer her the guarantee that I'll be there for her after she has come clean about all of it. I don't want to offer her any security at the moment and that's just me being honest, not resentful or angry, because I'm not angry anymore.
I just want to know, I don't think it's wrong either.
I want her to tell me what she did and who she did "it" with.
In the end I have no pre-conceived notions, I look at it as just another man's penis coming in contact with my wife's vagina and when it's placed in such a clinical context, it's not as bad as saying a PHYSICAL AFFAIR took place.
But yeah I want to know.
I want to know who, how long the affair(s) lasted, what happened to cause them to fail, in the end I'm not anyone's 2nd choice and if this is all because she can't find anyone else right now, I'm not filler in between the last affair and the next show.
And yes I hear you, maybe my curiousity won't be satisfied but I won't live with that type of unknown in my life. I want full disclosure, I want transparency, I want the cell phone unlocked, I want to read the texts and I want to do it on the spot so there is message erasing and cleaning her tracks before she comes clean.
Call me curious george but sometimes a monkey wants to know.
Have you asked for these requests? Response?
Does she know it's non-negotiable?
What's her reluctance?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
part of wanting to know is the large circle of friends we have, I don't want to be the clueless dummy that never found that one of his guy friends had an affair with his wife - so that's part of it.
