NC - W vanished ...

[chatterbug]

Hey P when you wake up today. I want you to think about going to the doctor. Happy pills. Please think about it. Not a weakness. Look at what you suffered. And I know what it is like where you live. How people are. Most of the North Americas here who offer advice will not understand. You have been stronger than you can imagine. Your inner strentght has been amazing.

I am looking forward to going home next year and visiting. At least out off all of this. You found a new friend on the outside world.

You just gotta get stable. You have started such a beautiful path with your daughter. And you should lean on her mother. She has offered unconditional love. Take it. And when you do have feelings towards her. Walk away. And travel to those ruins and listen to the waves crashing. And talk to her in a week. And if she has a friend. Invite them both over for dinner. And enjoy both their company. She will help. She is the mother of your daughter. You two are forever linked. And this has given you the chance to be a father again. Take it. And enjoy it. Life is going to get very good.

I am guessing that you're thinking that I always look up in life.

Well your right. I do. A second mistake in life has given you the chance to correct the first. Hug her the next time you see her. And when you see her mother hug her as well. And let her know that you are hurting and that you need a friend. Not a lover.
And take this gift to build your friendship. A hurtful gift. But a gift.

And next year. When I go home. I will fly over. And you will introduce me to both. And I will not understand a word you say. Because you speak an english that is not english

Anyways. Things are going to get better.

[Sakaro]

Can I ask how you think I handled the Xmas decorations badly? I felt this was a 180 for me. I also think this was also the start of the W moving on / going dark / NC / whatever you want to call it.

To me it just seemed like a guy who was trying to be difficult. So much drama involved. Put her stuff in a box and drop it off at her house when you know she or Mr Wrong arent there. Send her a text once it is done. "Dropped off your half of the decorations, hope you have a Merry Christmas" That sounds a like a very strong guy who isnt letting her petty stuff or her awful choices ruin his life. That is what will bring her back.

I think there was an issue with your wife wanting to send some gifts for your daughter. I think you should let her and thank her afterward via a card. "Daughter loved the gifts, thanks!" No loves, no miss yous. Just strong, positive man getting on with his life.

[P17]

Thanks Sakaro for coming back to me. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

To me it just seemed like a guy who was trying to be difficult. So much drama involved. Put her stuff in a box and drop it off at her house when you know she or Mr Wrong arent there. Send her a text once it is done. "Dropped off your half of the decorations, hope you have a Merry Christmas" That sounds a like a very strong guy who isnt letting her petty stuff or her awful choices ruin his life. That is what will bring her back.

You're right in one respect that it did seem like a guy trying to be difficult which is why it also looked like so much drama. I was really trying to make a decision that seemed like I wasn't being difficult.

Part of my problem in all of this was that when my W left she took most of the wedding presents - she took, didn't ask. She took them because her parents bought them for us (my parents just gave us a large amount of money).

The Xmas decorations were bought by her and by me and as I was the one who had the child, which is what Xmas is about, I kept all of the decorations. I did give her back the ones that were hers from when she was a child.

I had a wrestle of conscience with this as it's not what I'd normally do. I'd just normally give her the things and let it be done with. However I also determined that precisely because that is what I'd normally do, I shouldn't. For me it was a 180 - mr soppy pants decided enough was enough.

I can completely understand how it is seen as being weak and petty. I still can see it that way myself. However I can also see it as being weak and needy by giving her back exactly what she wanted. Bear in mind she had three months to pick this stuff up. She also said when she was leaving that she would pick them up later when she looked at the xmas box.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is it could look both ways, and does, to me. I made the best call I could under the circumstances.

I am starting to think that is why W is keeping the car seat now - as payment for the decorations I 'stole'. Hey ho. I can't win.

I think there was an issue with your wife wanting to send some gifts for your daughter. I think you should let her and thank her afterward via a card. "Daughter loved the gifts, thanks!" No loves, no miss yous. Just strong, positive man getting on with his life.

There was an issue, but only in here. I never told my W that she couldn't send the presents. When she told me what she was getting D for Xmas in her email, I just ignored it. I haven't spoken to my W since 23 November.

All communication goes through IM.

If I am honest, and that's one of the reasons I am here, I don't know what to do about presents. I don't want W to send them if I'm honest but I'll also be disappointed if she doesn't (see previous messages about her fighting me and standing up to me about D).

I don't want her to send them as I want D to move on with her life and, as much as she can, realise that W is no longer there for her. I don't want her presents to remind D of what she has lost in W. I also, again if I'm really honest, feel that I want to punish W for what she has done. I made a really hard decision by stopping contact with D and I have been over it again and again and again in my head as the reasons I did it. I always question myself as to if I was punishing W. The honest answer is it is probably part of it. But not punishing her as in using my daughter as a pawn, but not letting her eat cake and having to experience her fantasy life without us both.

I also want W to stand up to me, shout, yell, use swear words and tell me what she is going to do about D. I want her to go to Social Services. I want her to do EVERYTHING she can to see my D and fight for her. I don't care about her fighting for me. But I do care about her fighting for D. I would have a 1000 times more respect for her if she did. But she has lain down and accepted it.

If she does get them to me somehow then I'm not sure what I will do to be honest because of the above. I'm not going to act out of revenge or punishment though. I will TRY and act out of love. Not easy given how I am feeling but I promise I will TRY. I actually don't think she will give D a Xmas present. From the little shreds of things I see (letter to my dad, ignoring texts about D's care seat, Doctors etc.) I think she is angry. We'll see but if I have a wish on this it's that she'll stand up to me, stick two fingers up and fight for D. If anybody wants to pray for anything, pray for that little thing.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. I hope I have explained where I'm coming from Shakaro and how difficult just these little decision have been. Something as simple as what xmas decorations to give her caused a flurry of posts as I didn't know what to do for the best. The next time this happens I will have a better idea I hope. This 180 stuff is new to me.

Anyway, my new motto is 'do what is right', or from the NMMNG it's 'have integrity - do what is right not was is expedient'. That is what I will be doing from now on and that is why I have been upbeat and accepting of MIL's attempts to have contact with D.

My next thing I'm looking at is whether and when to come out of LRT.

[chatterbug]

You do not come out of LRT. Its last resort for this relationship.

You move on ... Now is not the time to make decissions. Now is the time to heal.

Go see a doctor my friend. You may need some happy pills.

Embrace the suck

[P17]

You do not come out of LRT. Its last resort for this relationship.
You move on ... Now is not the time to make decissions. Now is the time to heal.

Cutter, that came out completely the wrong way above. I didn't mean actually come out of LRT for the relationship. In fact thinking about, what the h*ll did I mean?!

Go see a doctor my friend. You may need some happy pills.

Not for me. Had depression before. Took happy pills. Didn't make a blind bit of difference. I'm feeling low and more than anything else mixed up about what to do that is right, what to do for me, what to do to salvage my sanity, what to do to save the sliver of a relationship if there is one, what to do about staying here ... yada yada yada. That's my problem right now. I feel no pain or hurt right now (although that won't be long in coming back).

I will be speaking to my IC tonight.

Embrace the suck

I try. When I embrace it, it keeps grabbing my a$$ and biting my neck!

[P17]

Thought I'd wait before replying to you cutter so I can digest what you said (starting to do that with everyone now rather than just replying straight off!)

Hey P when you wake up today. I want you to think about going to the doctor. Happy pills. Please think about it. Not a weakness.

Hey cutter. Never see mental illness as a weakness. Been there and done that about 10 years ago. Pills didn't work for me at the time. I don't feel I'm depressed. I feel I'm getting low spells which is entirely natural. I'm feeling a lot better today than I did yesterday (or for the last few days).

Look at what you suffered. And I know what it is like where you live. How people are. Most of the North Americas here who offer advice will not understand.

Yes, applying DB here is a little different than in the US

You have been stronger than you can imagine. Your inner strentght has been amazing.

Thanks cutter. That is really appreciated.

I spoke to my IC tonight (just back actually) and she said pretty much the same thing - that I am a completely different person than the one who came to see her back in April. Much stronger and know what I want (which I'll come to in another post).

I am looking forward to going home next year and visiting. At least out off all of this. You found a new friend on the outside world.

Looking forward to you coming over. Hopefully the weather will be good. Remember the Talisker though

You just gotta get stable. You have started such a beautiful path with your daughter. And you should lean on her mother. She has offered unconditional love. Take it. And when you do have feelings towards her. Walk away. And travel to those ruins and listen to the waves crashing. And talk to her in a week. And if she has a friend. Invite them both over for dinner. And enjoy both their company. She will help. She is the mother of your daughter. You two are forever linked. And this has given you the chance to be a father again. Take it. And enjoy it. Life is going to get very good.

The stability will come in time. Each time I have these down days / weeks I learn something new about myself. About how I'm dealing with things and about what I want out of this sitch and my life. This one has taught me a lot so it was worthwhile. I didn't hit rock bottom, maybe the next one I will and I can then build myself back up again. I'm not going to run away from feeling like this, I am going to TRY and embrace it as, if the next one teaches me as much as this one, I'll be a happier man when I come out of it. I am happier today for what I have learned the past few days.

With regards to D's mum and feelings for her. Those feelings I had were borne out of love but love for the support she had given me and for what she did for me. It's a different kind of love (something I realised today). I couldn't go back with D's mum it just wouldn't work and destroy what the last 7 years of fighting and the end of my marriage have given me - a chance at friendship. I haven't been as good as a friend to her as she has to me but I am apprehensive of opening myself up to that after what she did to me and W. It's natural to be defensive.

I am off away with D's mum and her friend for a night to the nearest big town (a 110 mile drive). We'll be staying in the same hotel room (it was cheap), buy a meal (on me) and have some drinks, maybe some dancing and a laugh. There will be plenty of FB photos to share (D's mum will make sure of that - I think she wants to make W jealous with them full of unknown women I'll let her go and have her fun ... she is actually more involved with DBing W than I am! Anyway, she has been a good friend and I will tell her so tomorrow.

However, being friendly with D's mum will push W away but that is a different story.

I am guessing that you're thinking that I always look up in life.

Well your right. I do. A second mistake in life has given you the chance to correct the first. Hug her the next time you see her. And when you see her mother hug her as well. And let her know that you are hurting and that you need a friend. Not a lover.

She has always said that she would not be interested in us getting back together. Sometimes her actions confuse me, but maybe I should just take her at her word.

MIL did mention something on the phone about sending the presents perhaps to D's mum. That took me aback to be honest as I have NO idea why she would say that as she knows the angst, pain and hatred W and I for D's mum at one time. The only thing I can think is that EITHER she wanted to send D the presents even if I didn't want her to (but then why later ask in the call if I would MIND her sending them ...) or she thinks (or has been told) that me and D's mum are back together. I have been asked that question this very night It's not happening.

And next year. When I go home. I will fly over. And you will introduce me to both. And I will not understand a word you say. Because you speak an english that is not english

LOL ... remember that English originated from England. We actually speak Scottish up here (and some people speak Gaelic) which is a WHOLLLLE different language.

And anyway, you're not from too far away from here so you will no doubt speak a whole alien language to me too I'll speak slowly ...

Anyways. Things are going to get better.

I have always known that. Even when I'm down I know it will get better. It's hard sometimes to realise when you have little hope in the one thing that you really want. Sometimes you just need a few days for the mind to process the data and provide you with the result.

[P17]

Send her a text once it is done. "Dropped off your half of the decorations, hope you have a Merry Christmas".

Sakaro, I've been thinking about what you said yesterday and today.

You said yesterday that I should have no contact (to the extent of not even going to W's workplace) but today you said that I should text her about the Xmas stuff.

I'm not having a go at you, but I can't think how this will sound any other way! How can you be so dark as to disappear from the radar but still text her? Surely you are either all out or all in (as PDT said to me once)?

I do however like the text about Xmas - sounds friendly, loving, caring without being anything else. I thought about texting her that anyway and then though ... wrong thing to do

[Sakaro]

P17,
Hey man, hope today is going a little better for you. I'm a little worried that drinks, dancing, the ex, a hotel room and more drinks could put you in a bad spot. But you are a big boy and I'll trust you to do the right thing. You are STILL married, just cause your wife is cheating doesnt give you a free pass.

On the no contact thing. I'm not sure I agree with the no contact thing myself, but you've played that card and will look bad if you dont stick to your word. I wouldnt contact over little insignificant things by any means. But I dont think saying thank you for your daughter's gifts, if she gets any, is a bad idea. You said you were going for the NMMNG, which I applaud 100%. That doesnt give you permission to be a jerk though.

When she begins to think she isnt getting to you...she will pull closer to you.

[P17]

P17,
Hey man, hope today is going a little better for you.

Today is a lot better than yesterday thankfully!

I'm a little worried that drinks, dancing, the ex, a hotel room and more drinks could put you in a bad spot. But you are a big boy and I'll trust you to do the right thing. You are STILL married, just cause your wife is cheating doesnt give you a free pass.

Sakaro, the chance would be a fine thing! LOL

It's not going to happen. I'm with D's mum (which it won't happen with) and a married woman (who would eat me alive). It should be a good night, but nothing untowards will happen. I am not THAT appealing for one person to throw their M away and the other to throw ... well, not sure what she would be throwing away. The night should be interesting especially as these are very good friends and will be going out of their way to get as many 'photos' of mysterious ladies (their words not mine) as possible. Me? I could just use the break and the laugh.

I took my vows seriously and while I am looking at dating is for the food, wine and good company (as cutter says). Nothing more.

On the no contact thing. I'm not sure I agree with the no contact thing myself, but you've played that card and will look bad if you dont stick to your word.

That's how I feel about it. She already thinks (I would knows, but I have changed) that I keep goign back and forth - I was once called the 'hot and cold master' by MIL to W. I am trying very much to get away from that as it's my emotions ruling my decisions rather than helping me make them.

I wouldnt contact over little insignificant things by any means. But I dont think saying thank you for your daughter's gifts, if she gets any, is a bad idea.

You know I get you. The IM is for contact between us, however I don't think a from the heart text saying thank you, personally, would hurt anything at all (is there anything left to hurt!). Any response can be ignored (obviously depending on what it was - I don't want to be sucked in a conversation) so the NC, while broken, is broken for a good reason. It is Xmas after all.

You said you were going for the NMMNG, which I applaud 100%. That doesnt give you permission to be a jerk though.

You are right. Thanks for pointing that out.

I didn't think I was being a jerk until you mentioned it. I simply thought I was taking back what was mine, standing up for myself etc. Sometimes you get a little too enthusiastic with these things and you take it too far!

When she begins to think she isnt getting to you...she will pull closer to you.

We will see

D's mum has agreed to get anything I want out of W's store. That solves that problem. I did think I'd need to go in for emergencies but I think I can safely try somewhere else first!

Thanks Sakaro.

[P17]

Just another update.

I went to see IC tonight and a few things came out, one which was very interesting.

My talk tonight revolved around understanding what I want now and what I am doing. I am NC, as you all know and it's going by and large pretty well for me.

I think disaster number three to befall me will be W getting pregnant. I feel this in my gut actually. However, I spoke to IC about this and I have been thinking about it for a while. Everytime I talk about it I actually feel it is nothing more than a relief feeling. A feeling that things are finally over and there will be no more hope (see later) left for the R of the M. Nothing. The rope will be dropped, cut, rolled up and burnt. Gone.

The second thing we discussed was what I want. I want to get rid of hope. Hope that the M can be recovered. I want to let go completely of the M and move on with my life. I see no hope for the M being continued. Bridges are being burned. W is doing things I never thought she was capable of. She is cold, heartless, uncaring, selfish and cowardly. That woman I don't love. The woman I did love has gone.

Tonight we spoke briefly about the W I married. I found a picture of us from a few months after we got married. W looked so different back then. Happy, relaxed, loving and smiling. My W was simply the sweetest, most caring, loving, selfless and best woman I had EVER met. She was a wonderful woman, wife, mother to my D and friend to me. She supported me through a lot (and I mean A LOT) she never ONCE complained. She was simply, the girl of my dreams. Unfortunately, that girl is gone and probably gone forever. The world is a sadder place without her.

Removing hope will let me and D move on our lives and let her move on with hers. That is a loving thing to do (and I do still love her, although I wish I didn't). That is also the best thing for me and D to do.

We then actually got down to the nitty gritty. Hope. What was it hope for. I said the above but the IC wanted to dig deeper. If I didn't want the M anymore, then why the hope?

Basically the hope, we decided, and it was the first time I've ever been hesitant in expressing my feelings, isn't hope for the M. It was for revenge. I want W and OM to break up and for her to feel the way I feel. I want to be able to say I told you so, stick two fingers up and be vindicated that she was wrong for what she did. When the IC said this, quite bluntly, I was speechless. But yes, she was actually right. It's revenge.

While I said to the IC that that simply isn't a feeling to have, she said but it's natural given the circumstances.

If I read W correctly (and I could be well off the mark) she is going out of her way to hurt me. The things she is doing, saying and posting on FB don't really make much sense to me other than to hurt me. This is a game, and without relaising it (and advising others not to do it) I'm playing it and rolling the dice too. I'm going out of my way to hurt her. This isn't right and simply cannot finish with any good results.

So, I am going to try and get over my revenge on W and let her live her life the way she wants to. I am going to TRY. This will be difficult for me. I am going to move on with my life, post whatever I want on FB, be honourable and do the right thing. At least I'm going to try.

I want to desperately lose hope / revenge. I also want to finally accept the M is over completely.

Finally, my stance has also changed with regards to W since my last visit to IC (three weeks ago). IC always asks - if W came back to you tomorrow what would you say. Throughout the visits it's gone from 'take her back', 'try again', 'take her back on my terms', 'talk and see where we get to' to, tonight, 'tell her to p*ss off'.

So that is the stage I'm at. Right now, I don't want this M anymore. I don't want W. I don't want her to get to me and hurt me anymore. I couldn't take her back and I don't want to.

Will I file for D? No, I'm not prepared for that emotionally yet. Will I file for D ever? I don't know. I have said lately that she can do the legwork on it. If the time is right for me then yes.

Separation agreement is still not here. Maybe that is disaster number three and I'm looking in the wrong place. If she wants half of 'me' then she can have it, with a fight (and it will be a dirty one as I have a few aces up my sleeve). It will be a disaster initially but I am not afraid of it as that will be a whole new chapter in my life (moving away).

I'm sad. I'm happy. I'm committed to me and D. I'm still struggling emotionally. I feel good today and I'm, still trying to figure out what it was that helped. I know it won't last forever and I will be embracing the bad days.

I still maintain the opinion that W has her head up her a$$ and it may never come out of there. However, if it does, I don't want to be around.

My M is over. Long live M.