NC - W vanished ...

[P17]

P. I do not think it was an exit affair in your relationship.

I think it was a power based move getting back at you for not meeting her every need.

I think that this is a lesson she learned from her Mother. And it played out on a sub-consious level.

Cutter I am about to go out so this is a really quick response.

Please tell me how on EARTH you figured that out? and also WHY it's not an exit affair? The longer the explanation the better for me.

I'm not asking to be pedantic, I'm asking because I feel that I could fix an non-exit affair. An exit affair seem to be kind of permanent ...

[Day by Day]

I'm asking because I feel that I could fix an non-exit affair. An exit affair seem to be kind of permanent ...

me too. I'd like to see more about this...

[chatterbug]

During the time between 2 August and 7 September we continued to live together, she stayed in my daughters room (from a previous relationship - my wife is her step-mother).
After she left I then chased her for a month between 7 September and 5 October. I sent her a rose (for which I got a thanks),
We talked for about 90 minutes about things and I was very calm, compassionate and understanding with what she had to say. I also told her that I would continue to fight for her (bad mistake). She then gave me the coffee table from her house as she had no room for it and she helped me into my house with it, sat down and had about a 20 minute chat. I went to a friends house and about an hour later I get a text from her asking me if I wanted to go to the beach with her and the dog!?!

I went to the beach and she did nothing for 90 minutes but criticise, blame me for everything, tell me she didn't want me and told me basically what an a$$ I had been and a terrible husband. I just again continued with the compassion, understanding and forgiveness.

2. I confronted her on why she told him I hit her and she stared at the floor and told me it was because that maybe she deserved to be hit for what she did. I asked her if she knew I would never hit her - she said, yeah you would if pushed. I pressed her on this and she did say I would never ever hit her and never would.

5. I am 36, my wife is 34. She hates smoking. She desperately wants children. The OP is 45 (forgive me any 45 years olds out there :-)), smokes, smokes pot (if his Facebook page is to be believed), drinks heavily, has facial hair (another pet hate of hers) and is abandons his kids (not a great father figure - this is one of the traits she loved about me that I fought for 7 years for my daughter and WOULD never have given up).

8. My wife had a history of dating married and unavailable men - father figures - before I met her. I put this down to her own father (and mother to an extent) abandoning her when she was young. I thought in me she had found somebody who could love her.

She was here on Wednesday when we spent a (fantastic fun day) with my daughter. If you didn't know we'd separated you would never have guessed, but anyway.


Thats from your first post.

Look at what happened when you dropped the rope.

She has built a very bizzare lie. And she is stubborn. She knows what the affairs did to herself. Look at her dating history. Look at her relationship with her Parents.

Look at that history. Look at what you have said was lacking in the relationship. Look at what she left. Look at what she gained.

Take an honest look.

Now that you have done that look at how you and OM fulfilled those EN's of her's for a few months. She became very vocal on the A because she thought you approved of it. But she never broke contact with you. Part of the fantasy of staying friends and your approval. But anyways... You dropped the rope. And it confused her.

Its been one month of guilt free you not around living. One month.

But you do not shy away from the truth. She does. She painted the picture that you were a horrible man. Slander ( abuse ) yet you stood up to her on this issue. She moved 500 M. from your house. Yet you gave only love and silence as a response.

She sees the developing relationship with your daughter. Something that you two did not make. But something she saw everyday. And wanted children of her own. She saw how you worked on developing that relationship again. The sacrifices. The pain. And then finally the joy.

She knows this about you. She knows you will fight for what is a part of you. Fight for the people you love.

Then she looks at her life.

Flight. Her history is not to fight but to self destruct. Take the path of selfishness. But she also knows that this will not last. And when you dropped the rope.... Well she is just begining to process this now. Give it some more time. Let her begin to miss you. Remember you are stable. You have a business. You have shown how you can overcome great hardships because it is the right thing to do. You can forgive.

I am sure when the A was going on she left little hints. Little cries for help.

And now I think she is going to follow one of two paths.

1. Keep this path of self destruct like her Mother. Out of guilt that she became what she did not want to be. Forever repeating the same mistakes because she is afaid of herself and does not know how to deal with her issues. A child in a woman's body. Grow old and unhappy because she never realized that happiness comes from within. A miscued idea of love and relationships. No relationship is happy 100% no relationship is perfect. She is probally surprised that other relationships work through issues instead of running away. Suprised that people are not selfish when their needs are not met. And she will not learn this lesson. And have a very sad and disappointing life full of blame shifting , spite and bitterness. Always finding problems and ignoring solutions.

2. She releazies her problems. But does not know how to cry out for help. Self distructs. Loses everything. But pride steps in and she remains quiet about her losses. She reaches out confused, afraid and alone. She needs to be taught what remorse really is. For she has never confronted it.

But the 2nd one is timebased.

We are moving forward. The clock is ticking. She does not realize this. Nor do I think they ever do. When she left to have the affair. She passed control over to you. The stop watch was pressed. She knows that you and D are getting along great. She knows that you and D'mom are working out your differences. So she pulls herself further into her affair. She is pushing for 100% EN's from him now. A man who could remove his family from his life. She knows this. And she knows that he can do it to her as well. She has picked this mate very well. For it is one that can be easily discarded based on what path she chooses to follow.

[P17]

Cutter,

I'm actually not sure how to respond to that. I've read it several times and it's scary - scarily accurate.

I'm not sure of the path she will follow either. I do feel that whichever one it is, is without me. It's scary to think of her self-destructing and I can't help. It's scary to see her in a relationship that will have exactly the same problems as this one. You see she has major communication problems. She is a conflict avoider. I said to her many times that if I had ONE wish, just ONE wish, it would be that she could communicate with me - communicate about her FEELINGS not about her work and hobbies. She did sometimes and I would say that I am one of the very few she did do that with. He may have her eating out of his hand, I do not know. But unless she starts to open up her relationship with anybody is doomed.

My W has had many relationships. Mine has been the longest and the one that led to marriage. I think I know her well enough, and yet I feel I don't know her at all.

Let me digest what you said and come back to this post. It's thrown me a little. You spent a lot of time over it and I don't want to demeen it with a silly response.

[LiveToLearn]

Very insightfull Cutter, I agree that it is scary accurate and see the same thing in the relationships my XW is choosing. She is on a road to self destruction also, I am just sad to see involve my daughter

[P17]

A little bit of an update and another step forward. However, cutter, you've stolen my thunder

I'm really really tired today. Only had a few hours sleep last night so this may be affecting me.

Went for lunch today with D's mum. They went into the place to get a table, I went to the ATM to get some money. When I came back I spotted them and we all sat down. Just at the other side of the wall where we sat I spotted W's friend who appeared to be leaving in a hurry. I stuck my head around the wall to make sure it was here and low and behold there is W and OM sitting less than 5 feet from us.

W's friend (this is the same friend I spoke to on Xmas Eve) made a comment about her shoes and the weather and said she had to go. I said goodbye. Within a minute W and OM had also left.

Three things about all of this were noticeable (and I'm not reading anything into them, just I noticed them). D said that W looked at her when she sat down, smiled a little and then looked abruptly away. When I poked my head around the wall and saw W she had a big smile on her face. Not sure what it was for. Just noticed it.

The third thing I noticed, and it wasn't until she actually left that I noticed this is that when I saw her I felt nothing. Not a thing. No twinge in my stomach. Not pull at the heart strings. No floods of emotions. Absolutely nothing at all. It was as if I was staring at a stranger. I did make a couple of statements about how happy adultery clearly makes you and about him being a &*^&^ (expletive obviously removed) but they didn't hear them. It was anger and hurt coming out from those statements - that somebody you had been with for 7 years can drop you like a stone in a few short months and move on so quickly - that kind of hurt.

I've been over and over this last bit in my head trying to think that maybe I didn't immediately register it was her so I felt nothing or maybe I was just angry so I felt nothing. Maybe I was just put on the spot. No idea. I know I felt nothing at all. I didn't feel the urge to leave. I didn't feel the urge to ask her to leave. I didn't feel the urge to do anything but get on with chatting away and getting my lunch.

She probably thinks that D's mum and I are back together again. This was one of the things I was keen to avoid people saying (although they have been asking, including her friend I spoke to on Xmas Eve - thinking back she did ask a lot of questions which really isn't like her - it felt a little like she was mining for info - anyway). When W saw me and D's mum today I just couldn't care less. There was no guilt. No emotion. No worry. I just didn't have it within me to care.

However, I now feel really low and I'm just not sure why. I feel a sadness again. Sense of loss. But it's different, I think, this time. It feels like something has gone. Died maybe. Not like when we first separated. This time it just feels different. An acceptance maybe? I really don't know. As I said at the start I am really tired so a lot of it may be down to that.

I'm still not ready for the Big D. I still don't have my separation agreement and I have a nagging feeling that I'm not going to get it. The clock is ticking. Feb 2 (I'm away Feb 1) the house goes on the market to be sold if I don't get the agreement. It's a little worrying as time is getting closer and closer to that date. However I am feeling more and more hate for this house and less and less urge to stay in it. I will probably sell it anyway when the time is right for me.

So here I am. Really teary, low, upset and with little idea of why. Maybe a good nights sleep will help me figure it out.

However I think I am done. I will sleep on these feelings a little while before I decide for sure.

Sad. Really really sad.

I was catching up on Cutter's thread over in Newcomers when I found this - just really puts things into perspective.

Beatles - I'm looking through you

I'm looking through you, where did you go
I thought I knew you, what did I know
You don't look different, but you have changed
I'm looking through you, you're not the same

Your lips are moving, I cannot hear
Your voice is soothing, but the words aren't clear
You don't sound different, I've learned the game.
I'm looking through you, you're not the same

Why, tell me why, did you not treat me right?
Love has a nasty habit of disappearing overnight

You're thinking of me, the same old way
You were above me, but not today
The only difference is you're down there
I'm looking through you, and you're nowhere

Why, tell me why, did you not treat me right?
Love has a nasty habit of disappearing overnight

I'm looking through you, where did you go
I thought I knew you, what did I know
You don't look different, but you have changed
I'm looking through you, you're not the same

Yeah! Oh baby you changed!
Aah! I'm looking through you!
Yeah! I'm looking through you!
You changed, you changed, you changed!

video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_PiVNLiuc

My final thoughts are these - have I know truly dropped the rope on her OR have I truly dropped the rope on the M and given up? I don't have answer - what does everybody else think?

[newmama]

P, of course you are upset! You just saw W and OM out together at a restaurant after the holidays!
((P17))
Ride this and I think you have dropped the rope on your (old) M but truthfully I doubt you have dropped it on her YET.

I almost didn't respond because you know me. But you did ask for opinions.

[chatterbug]

P remember that song was written by the WAS to the LBS

[chatterbug]

P. You have suffered so much. Loss of wife. Loss of mother.

I find it amazing that you are still functioning. I do not know that I could be as strong as you.

But you are pulling through.

You did well. I hope my friend that you see the light at the end of all this.

For you are truly learning wisdom and intelligence. And you freely offer it to those that listen.


And for those that do not know P. And where he lives. Just always remember its a small town. And where ever he goes he knows he can bump into her.... and him at any time. And the rumour mills just go on and on.

Truly P. You are very strong. I am very proud of you. Imagine you were dealing with this in a city of 8 million instead of 7000.

[P17]

Still upset and very low today. Did get a good amount of sleep (far too much if I'm honest I didn't get up until 12pm).

Seem to be sleeping a lot which I will need to knock on the head. Also spending a LOT of time with D's mum (spent most of today there and just about to go back around). It's not uncomfortable but I am aware that this isn't normal for a platonic relationship.

P, of course you are upset! You just saw W and OM out together at a restaurant after the holidays!
((P17))

I did but that really didn't bother me to be honest. What is bothering me, and I am reading too much into this but I will say it nonetheless, is when they left. W's friend left first and then W and OM left about a minute afterwards. Everybody had finished their drinks and meal (as I saw that when I poked my head around) so why didn't they all leave together? Am I not allowed to see them together? Is it poor old P, let's not put him through it - I don't want their pity. If they had actually sat there all through my meal I wouldn't have given a stuff.

Anyway, venting there.

I think you may be right though. It is the only logical explanation as to why I feel so bad. Maybe I just saw W again and that made me feel bad as I hadn't seen her since 23 November.

I don't know. I still feel like crying. No idea why. I still feel low. No idea why. I still feel upset. Again, no idea why. I just do.

Ride this and I think you have dropped the rope on your (old) M but truthfully I doubt you have dropped it on her YET.

Why do you say that? I'm also wondering - if I drop the rope, jeez, is that it game over ... that worries me and excites me at the same time.

I almost didn't respond because you know me. But you did ask for opinions.

I did and I always welcome anything you say newmama. You are my window of optimism in all of this!

remember that song was written by the WAS to the LBS

LOL ... I didn't realise that. For me it's better that the LBS wrote it about the WAS!

P. You have suffered so much. Loss of wife. Loss of mother.
find it amazing that you are still functioning. I do not know that I could be as strong as you.
But you are pulling through.

Thanks cutter. It's not been easy at time but then it's not easy for any of us. I have tried to vent in here as much as possible in the hope that it helps others understand that their 'weird' feelings are actually normal and also for me to get it off my chest.

You did well. I hope my friend that you see the light at the end of all this.

I know I will. However the tunnel getting there is full of broken glass, holes, and rats ... reminds me of the beginning of Raiders Of The Lost Ark ...

And for those that do not know P. And where he lives. Just always remember its a small town. And where ever he goes he knows he can bump into her.... and him at any time. And the rumour mills just go on and on.

That is true. W and OM also work in the one supermarket in the town that is the easiest, cheapest and has the biggest selection of the others. So it's actually a pin to shop elsewhere.

The rumour mill doesn't ever stop here. It just rotates from one crisis to another ... there is a saying in this town, and forgive my bluntness ... you can't fart in XYZ but you'll hear about in <the next town> before you smell it ... ahem. Scottish humour.

Truly P. You are very strong. I am very proud of you. Imagine you were dealing with this in a city of 8 million instead of 7000.

I try to ... and I wish I was! The largest city in Scotland has a population of about 1 million (the entire country has a population of 5 million) and that is the city I'm from. Whenever I go back there it's like a wave washes over me to clear this nonsense from my mind.

Guys, thank you again. I really wish there was more input in all of our threads particularly from the likes of Sandi2, PDT, Gnosis, et al. We've been ostracised over here But we're doing okay!