P, I think I remember reading you have gone through depression before. Me too. In order to get myself out, I would make 2 goals every day. Take a shower and go somewhere. Walking would be ideal! I find that after 2 weeks of doing those 2 goals, I am ready to exercise and talk to my friends again. Oh and OTC sleeping pills!!
Not that you need advice on getting out of a funk, but just sharing that only 2 small steps helped me.
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
OMG. Last night I went to bed at 10 PM. Woke up at 11:30 like normal.... 1Am like normal... Then I slept for 6 hours straight... Wow... First time since July... I feel like a layer of film has been removed... Going to try this again tonight...
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Cutter, I just want to say I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a long and informed post to me. I feel bad for not replying sooner. To be honest, I really didn't want to reply. Your post hit so many nails on the head that it was simply too close for comfort and I didn't want to rake up old feelings by replying to it. But I need to do it.
I have deliberately quoted the whole post.
Originally Posted By: cutterbug
During the time between 2 August and 7 September we continued to live together, she stayed in my daughters room (from a previous relationship - my wife is her step-mother). <SNIP> After she left I then chased her for a month between 7 September and 5 October. I sent her a rose (for which I got a thanks), We talked for about 90 minutes about things and I was very calm, compassionate and understanding with what she had to say. I also told her that I would continue to fight for her (bad mistake). She then gave me the coffee table from her house as she had no room for it and she helped me into my house with it, sat down and had about a 20 minute chat. I went to a friends house and about an hour later I get a text from her asking me if I wanted to go to the beach with her and the dog!?!
I went to the beach and she did nothing for 90 minutes but criticise, blame me for everything, tell me she didn't want me and told me basically what an a$$ I had been and a terrible husband. I just again continued with the compassion, understanding and forgiveness.
2. I confronted her on why she told him I hit her and she stared at the floor and told me it was because that maybe she deserved to be hit for what she did. I asked her if she knew I would never hit her - she said, yeah you would if pushed. I pressed her on this and she did say I would never ever hit her and never would.
5. I am 36, my wife is 34. She hates smoking. She desperately wants children. The OP is 45 (forgive me any 45 years olds out there :-)), smokes, smokes pot (if his Facebook page is to be believed), drinks heavily, has facial hair (another pet hate of hers) and is abandons his kids (not a great father figure - this is one of the traits she loved about me that I fought for 7 years for my daughter and WOULD never have given up).
8. My wife had a history of dating married and unavailable men - father figures - before I met her. I put this down to her own father (and mother to an extent) abandoning her when she was young. I thought in me she had found somebody who could love her.
She was here on Wednesday when we spent a (fantastic fun day) with my daughter. If you didn't know we'd separated you would never have guessed, but anyway.
Thats from your first post.
Look at what happened when you dropped the rope.
If you mean when I started NC - nothing happened other than she has tried to contact me a few times.
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She has built a very bizzare lie. And she is stubborn. She knows what the affairs did to herself. Look at her dating history. Look at her relationship with her Parents.
She is incredibly stubborn - always has been. The lie she has built was bizarre and unfortunately believed by so many (she moved out, OM moved in as a 'lodger' and then they 'got together really quickly' ... come on people!).
Her dating history should have been a huge red flag to me - somebody who goes with married men is not want who values married and vows. But as I said I took that, in me, she had found somebody she could love and somebody who could love her and that was all she was looking for all along - she always went for unavailable men who she could never ever have.
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Look at that history. Look at what you have said was lacking in the relationship. Look at what she left. Look at what she gained. Take an honest look.
I have tried to. I don't see what she has gained though from all of this. Only what she has lost. But then I can't see her side of things anymore. I don't know who OM really is. I don't know the kind of person or partner he is. I see what I see about him from my POV - a man who no longer sees his children, was desperate to leave where he was, who went with a married woman and did to that marriage what somebody else did to his, etc. This may all be circumstance though (and some of it may be lies) and he may be the nicest guy in the world. I simply don't know. However as I have said many times, W has burned a lot of bridges, is incredibly stubborn (probably the most stubborn person I have ever met) and has no idea, or simply doesn't care, what she has done.
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Now that you have done that look at how you and OM fulfilled those EN's of her's for a few months.
As my W is big on physical affection and sex (confusing sex with love), loves kids and was desperate for her own, she had all of her EN's filled by us both. He provided sex and love, I provided love (whether she wanted it or not or even recognised it or not I don't know), D provided the child part.
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She became very vocal on the A because she thought you approved of it. But she never broke contact with you. Part of the fantasy of staying friends and your approval. But anyways... You dropped the rope. And it confused her.
I don't see it confused her Cutter.
I do agree that she thought I simply approved or was indifferent to the whole thing. She was cake eating and it was destroying me on two levels - 1) that she was so happy around me while having betrayed me 2) that I was such a weak and needy idiot that I was putting up with this BS.
She didn't ever break contact with me, although it was becoming more and more of a strained contact. She was taking longer and longer to reply to texts and she had the control over me. That was another reason for going NC - to break that cycle as the loss of control over me was getting to me.
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Its been one month of guilt free you not around living. One month.
And judging by the comments from her friend and her face when I saw her last Monday, she is loving it! But then I suppose they all do at the start.
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But you do not shy away from the truth. She does. She painted the picture that you were a horrible man. Slander ( abuse ) yet you stood up to her on this issue. She moved 500 M. from your house. Yet you gave only love and silence as a response.
That is true. However she will see what I have done in telling everybody the truth (sometimes I have told them too much but I wanted for them to first of all get the real story and then believe it with the other facts that I had) as being mean and vindictive. There is nothing I can do about that though. The truth is the truth.
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She sees the developing relationship with your daughter. Something that you two did not make. But something she saw everyday. And wanted children of her own. She saw how you worked on developing that relationship again. The sacrifices. The pain. And then finally the joy.
She knows this about you. She knows you will fight for what is a part of you. Fight for the people you love.
She should know that. I fought for stable contact with D for 7 years. But she resents the fact that she couldn't / didn't give me a child of our own, I think. I fought for W too. I am a big believer in standing up for what I believe in. That she does know, however I did take it to extremes sometimes and she didn't like that.
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Then she looks at her life. Flight. Her history is not to fight but to self destruct. Take the path of selfishness. But she also knows that this will not last. And when you dropped the rope.... Well she is just begining to process this now. Give it some more time. Let her begin to miss you. Remember you are stable. You have a business. You have shown how you can overcome great hardships because it is the right thing to do. You can forgive.
Always always always flight. Always. It's fear or rejection that has her do this. She has always shied away from conflict, responsibility, commitment, apologies, etc. I have seen glimpses of her doing all of these things though and standing up and that is the woman I loved and married. But those glimpses are rare.
As far as being stable - that is the last thing she thinks I am. Depression, alienation from my D, alienation from her, business wasn't doing great, we had financial problems, insecurity, passive aggressive, etc. I can't prove to her how much I have changed as NC is in place but I HAVE changed (EVERYBODY has noticed it - from being more attentive, being a good listener to being happier and the one thing I have noticed - I am MUCH MUCH calmer even to the point of having to calm D's mum a lot (she likes to shout and go off on one quite a lot - that is something I never thought I'd see me do and it still makes me smile every time I do it).
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I am sure when the A was going on she left little hints. Little cries for help.
She probably did. Thinking back though I haven't been able to see them.
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And now I think she is going to follow one of two paths.
1. Keep this path of self destruct like her Mother. Out of guilt that she became what she did not want to be. Forever repeating the same mistakes because she is afaid of herself and does not know how to deal with her issues. A child in a woman's body. Grow old and unhappy because she never realized that happiness comes from within. A miscued idea of love and relationships. No relationship is happy 100% no relationship is perfect. She is probally surprised that other relationships work through issues instead of running away. Suprised that people are not selfish when their needs are not met. And she will not learn this lesson. And have a very sad and disappointing life full of blame shifting , spite and bitterness. Always finding problems and ignoring solutions.
2. She releazies her problems. But does not know how to cry out for help. Self distructs. Loses everything. But pride steps in and she remains quiet about her losses. She reaches out confused, afraid and alone. She needs to be taught what remorse really is. For she has never confronted it.
Both of those are possible.
If OM sticks around, 1 will be the outcome. Only when OM leaves (and he will I am sure - just not sure when) will 2 occur. He is the catalyst just now for bringing W out of her FOG.
The most important limne that you used in there, and it's a line that has stuck with me since you wrote it - child in a woman's body. I have said a lot about W being immature, not up to a mature relationship, living in a fantasy world, no communication etc. That one phrase just rounds it all up neatly into a ball ... child in a womans body. Perfect.
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But the 2nd one is timebased. We are moving forward. The clock is ticking. She does not realize this. Nor do I think they ever do.
Can I also say I don't think they care, or at least W doesn't care.
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When she left to have the affair. She passed control over to you.
This is important especially for people just starting to go through this. When a WAS leaves, LBS's think that they take all of the control with them. They don't. What they are doing is giving you BACK control of your life. But in the LBS FOG (and I've never heard anybody talk about that but there is one) we don't see that until later on.
Taking control of us is the most important thing I think any LBS can do. The sooner the better.
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The stop watch was pressed. She knows that you and D are getting along great. She knows that you and D'mom are working out your differences.
I would also guess that she thinks me and D's mum are actually back together! I have made it clear to her friend several times that that is not the case but people will believe what they want to believe.
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So she pulls herself further into her affair. She is pushing for 100% EN's from him now. A man who could remove his family from his life. She knows this.
You know I never understood that. She wants kids, as I've said a hundred times. She liked the way I fought for D for 7 years. She stopped me on several occassions giving up (and we all have those moments of weakness where we just want to throw the towel in, go into a corner and cry - was there more than once) saying that she knows what her own dad did to her when he gave up on her and she didn't want that happening to D - that spurred me on. How could she then hook up with a man who has done that to both of his children? It makes no sense. He is, and this is based on guesswork, around 700-800 miles away from his children. Maybe his xW doesn't let him see them - maybe she is a b*tch, maybe she has reasons, but you know F4J and other similar groups (of which I was a member) have been fighting these injustices for years - there are ways and means and giving up for me, while I had moments of weakness, was never on the goal map. Moving that far away from your kids says volumes to me.
I moved 300 miles away from D and visited her every weekend / second weekend / holidays / parents evenings etc (between that and work I was doing 2000-3000 miles per month spending on average �600 on fuel and no idea what on servicing the car (and it was a Volvo so servicing was NOT cheap) and to see her was a 12 hour round trip) and sometimes I did it for nothing as I didn't get to see her but that was okay because she knew I had come to see her - she knew Daddy was there and she knew Daddy wouldn't leave her. That to me was the most important thing - the 12 hour drive was easy knowing that. That was important - Daddy loves you D.
I'm sorry for rambling here. That bit just bothers me and confuses me.
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And she knows that he can do it to her as well. She has picked this mate very well. For it is one that can be easily discarded based on what path she chooses to follow.
It is also maybe a mate who, yet again, is unavailable to her. The circle continues until one day she wakes up, grows up and realises the man that gave her what she needed was actually the one she married all along - he just had a few problems at the time and I needed a huge kick up the backside to realise it. We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. However walking away from a 6 year fantastic relationship (as I have said many times before I said it was a 9/10, she said 7/10 which isn't to be sniffed at) isn't the answer to anything.
Cutter, this post made me cry, worry and has upset me as it makes me think of all that she has done. All that she has lost. And everything that she has discarded like old rubbish. From the bottom of my heart though, thank you for posting it. It means a lot to me. Your opinions on W are scarily accurate for somebody who doesn't actually know her.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
Hi P, I know D's birthday is in January but not sure of the date? Hope the weather's not too bad up there. We've still got a total white-out and icerinks on the road. Hope all's well. MIL x
Nothing wrong with that but, and I am reading into it, couldn't she have asked W about the date as they talk all the time (and W has all this written down - although she would know when D's birthday is off the top of her head anyway). Just seemed weird. D's mum said that maybe she is just trying to keep contact - I suppose but she never struck me as that sort of person.
Also why ask about the roads if she is talking to W. W lives 500 yards from here so she will have the same weather ... could be chit chat but why bother!??!
Conclusion, and it's reading into things (not that it makes any difference to anything but I'm doing it anyway) - W and MIL are not talking.
Question is ... why?
Both of them are thick as thieves. Do I detect decension in the ranks?
Yes I know I'm reading into a text, but as I said it won't make any difference to anything. I just found it interesting.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
Perhaps she is trying to create communication with you. Build a friendship with you two.
Nothing wrong with that.
No there is nothing wrong with that. It would be nice, to be honest, for her to keep being a part of D's life. D has lost enough recently.
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Its a hard thing for a woman to look at her daughter fail. Repeat the same mistakes.
The texts between W and MIL before she left were nasty about me. MIL was quite nasty about me as was W.
I find it hard to now accept that she has turned into this person who wants to keep contact. However, maybe she has realised that the lies that W has told her were in fact lies. MIL and W were very VERY close (MIL admitted this just prior to W leaving) and she knew nothing about the A or OM.
I told MIL about the OM (mentioning him by name) before W even left here. MIL told me that I was reading too much into it ... then OM moves in ... hmmmmmm.
Last edited by P17; 01/08/1005:32 PM.
Me 36, W 34 | D 8 | M 3.5y Sep 2Aug09 | Left 6Sep09 | OM in 10Oct09 | NC 17Nov09 | Gave up caring - Jan 2010
"Have integrity. Do what is right, not what is expedient." "Delay is the antidote for anger"
