Last night my wife was acting strangely like she was either not all there, drunk, or trying to push my buttons by repeatedly asking me the same question over and over again and not realizing the we had discussed the matter earlier. I got upset, called he on it, set a boundary and asked her what was going on. I also said I was concerned about her as she was important to me. It was like a deer in the headlights.
Tonight, she asked me which two books she was suppose to read and actually read about 2/3rds of the SSM. She was very silent and focused on her reading. I wanted to thank her, but restrained myself as that would have been too Nice Guy-ish.
I had previously told her that this coming Saturday we were going to discuss SSM and the Five Languages of Love. I think that it might actually happen this time. We will see what happens.
I am going to focus on her actions and not words, as my wife has been very good at words. In the past I have wanted to believe her words and she may have tricked herself into believing them as well.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I am posting an update on my situation. Posting here is very therapeutic for me, even if it is a bit long. I apologize for the length.
We had agreed to have our discussion on the books the Sex Starved Marriage and The Five Languages of Love on Saturday afternoon. My LD wife had a work related party that she had to go to and that she wanted me to attend on Saturday evening. So Saturday, she told me that she would not be able to have enough time to meaningfully discuss the books and to get ready and leave in time for her work related party. She asked if we could delay the discussion until Sunday when we get back from a movie we were seeing with another couple. I said that we could delay things one day.
I gave her some time after we got back from the movie on Sunday and then told her it was time to discuss the books. She started off by criticism of my language as being too ominous and critical. I let that go.
She then told me she had only read one book. I told her I was disappointed. I feel that she then tried to pick an argument over my feeling of disappointment. I explained to her why I felt we were going to discuss two books and she told me she had not promised any such thing. She then told me that I looked hurt and disappointed and that wasn’t fair. I told her that I was disappointed because the typical four phases of SSM recovery (thank you Bagheera) are: (1) heal yourself, (2) Learn to meet your spouse’s needs, (3) get your spouse on board, and finally (4) work together to fix your marriage. I told her that I feel that I have started down the path to the first two and that her telling me that she had wanted to read the books I was reading and discuss them with me was the third phase (i.e. her getting on board) and that these discussions of the books were the working together process. When she had not lived up to what she suggested, I saw this as her not working to save our marriage. I reminded her that I am changing and that I am reading these books to change myself and to incorporate good ideas into our marriage. I also said that I have a timetable for my changes. I said that I am working to be a complete and happy person with a satisfying sex life by January of 2011.
She then proceeded to taunt me that if she had read one book wasn’t that a positive and shouldn’t I look on things a better. I pondered if this was a fight that I really wanted to have with her or if I wanted to try to move forward. I opted for moving forward.
We discussed the book “The Sex Starved Marriage” and she had really read it and understood it. I asked her what specific things she had taken out of the book that she could implement to improve our marriage relationship. She said she understood that she had hurt me. I asked her what changes she saw incorporating into our marriage. She said that she now understands that she withdrew from our relationship, when I withdrew and she should not have done that. She also pointed out a number of things she felt I had done wrong in the past. I decided not to get sucked into a fight. I asked her what she thought about the physical reasons, emotional reasons and mental reasons associated with low libido. She said that she had body self-image issues and that as the adult child of two alcoholic parents she has a pattern of withdrawing from confrontation. She told me that she needed intimacy and closeness prior to having intercourse and that the Nike (Just Do it) approach would not work for her.
She further accused me of trying to create a power struggle to dominate her into doing what I wanted. I feel that she was both trying to pick fights and trying to challenge boundaries. I told her that there was only one thing I was going to force her to do and that I understood I can only change myself and not force her to do what I want. The one thing I insisted on was that she sees a medical doctor who specialized in women’s health and sexual issues. I told her I would give her the website and expected her to make an appointment. She then challenged boundaries again and asked if she could choose a different doctor. I said fine, but that she had to see a doctor, talk about her libido, get her hormone levels checked by blood work and discuss any painful intercourse, vaginal dryness and her UTI’s with the doctor. She said that because of the oils and gel’s we used that lubrication isn’t a problem. (Later she actually checked out the website for the doctor and printed out the new patient information requirements and questionnaire.)
She also said that she might not be able to change her libido and could I live with not having the sex I wanted. I explained that it was the sex and touching that I needed to feel loved. I reminded her that it has been nearly five months since we last had sex. I also told her for the first time that the association of sex and rejection from her had gotten so ingrained before I stopped having sex with her that there were several times last summer that I faked orgasms just to have the sex end and be able to go to sleep. I then said that I wasn’t sure if I can open up to her enough to get past my fear of rejection to have sex with her again starting in January. I reminded her that I had offered an absolute two-month sexual sabbatical so that she would be free to touch me without fearing that it would lead to sex and that she has not yet touched me in a vigorous way that would lead to a release of endorphins. I reminded her that the book “Hold Me Tight” by Sue Johnson talked about how pair bonding requires such chemical releases and that being touched is a basic human need. I said that before I will be able to open up to her and have sex with her again, I need to be convinced that things will be different and that is why I had hoped she would have used the two months that will be up in a week to explore touching me. She said that she was showing me more signs of affection and I should be satisfied with that. I acknowledged that I was impressed and pleased that she was showing me more signs of affection, but our marriage was at a crisis point.
I said that I had thought a lot about that question of hers on how I could deal with truly different levels of desire and felt that there were some non-sex things she could do that I could accept as either sex-like or touching that would augment a libido difference between us once our sex life was established again.
She wanted to know what I meant, so I explained that I had purchased some books and videos on couples massage. I also explained that vigorous vaginal intercourse with her bruises my penis so that at most I want vigorous vaginal intercourse at most once every other day. I said that on other days hugging, kissing, or a massage that releases endorphins and makes me feel loved would be a good way for me to get the love I need without her having to feel like we are constantly having sexual intercourse.
She said that in the SSM book that it talks about the high desire partner masturbating as a way of getting the sexual release they need. I explained that yes I have been masturbating and that I felt that could be a way of meeting my sexual desires, but that I would want it to be something that we did together and not something I did alone and in shame. I said that if she kissed me and hugged me or talked to me as I masturbated then that could be a sex-like thing that could be added to our marriage that would not require her to touch me in a sexual way and help balance the difference between our libidos. She said that might be too intimate for her to deal with.
I reminded her that she had said she needs intimacy and closeness prior to having intercourse. I then discussed some of the concepts of intimacy and exercises (hugging till relaxed and eyes open sex) to gain intimacy in the Passionate Marriage book. I explained that they fascinated me and that the Passionate Marriage book concepts also scared me. I offered her the book to read. She said she would not be able to do those kinds of things and so she doesn’t want that book. I said that the PM concept was sort of a nuclear and last chance kind of program for a failing marriage. I said that there were other approaches and marriage counselors I had been researching. She said that she would go to a marriage counselor with me if we didn’t make progress. I found that very encouraging.
I also discussed the book by Chapman the Five Languages of Love (that we were also suppose to have discussed today) and why that was a significant book for me in understanding our relationship and had helped me see what my LD wife needed, as well as, helped me better understand our relationship and how I had hurt her. She then said that we can discuss the next book in a week.
I said fine, and asked if she would agree to discuss a book a week. She panicked and said no! She would try to do a book a week, but did not be held to any frequency of books. I then asked if we should schedule a time to talk each week. She said that would be good and that this discussion and last week’s discussion had helped her. I then asked about what would be a good time next week to schedule our talk.
She proceeded to tell me that she couldn’t set a time as she didn’t know when or if our two sons would be staying with us overnight for Christmas or New Year’s Eve. I told her that I wanted some agreement. She then brought up the power struggle issue again. I told her that I can only change myself and I understand that I cannot force change upon her. I gave up and said she was now in charge of setting the times for the talks and if she would read a book or not. I only asked her to be very clear with me on scheduling things in advance and letting me know which book she would talk about. She panicked again and said if she didn’t keep up, I was to call her on this and reestablish a schedule. I feel that the whole discussion helped move our relationship forward but that she was trying to pick fights and testing my resolve regarding boundaries the entire time. I wish that I hadn’t turned timing control over to her at the end, as I think she needs boundaries and was testing to see if I had boundaries.
I now expect that she will probably test boundaries again and that I will have to call her out to set the next discussion and make sure that she has read the next book. I think that I need to review No More Mr. Nice Guy prior to our next discussion and be a little more firm in my boundaries.
I feel like while she wants to save this marriage, she will be dragged kicking and screaming down the path until things finally click inside her brain. Hopefully she will have an understanding of herself and what she needs to do sooner rather than later.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I'm getting two impressions from reading through your thread, thus far:
(1) You are pushing very hard to fix the intimate relationship IMMEDIATELY. Slow it down, man. You're not only overwhelming yourself with all of the books and all of the new concepts, but you're also pushing your wife to join you in drinking from the self-help book "fire-hose." This is going to back-fire on you, if you aren't careful: you've already got her in a very uncomfortable spot, confronting some *very* long term, uncomfortable issues, and if she feels like she's being pushed too hard, too fast, she's going to sit down and declare "No more...I can't do it." Be glad that she IS reading the books at all, at her own pace -- go with it.
Also, each book that you've mentioned talks about some sort of "program" for making long-term, lasting changes in your marriage. And in each case, the changes begin small, with clear, measurable goals, that very, very, slowly build the "snowball" larger -- one snowflake at a time. It takes daily, conscious efforts to try and build a new habit or life-style change: something like 30-60 days of conscious effort before it begins to feel "natural" and habitual, after which you can layer on another, more advanced habit to build. Pick one book. One. Some small change (or at most two) that you can make *today*, and focus on just that for a few weeks.
From all that I have read (and have now experienced myself) it takes about 1-2 months of effort for each year that you have been married in order to truly fix or rebuild a broken marriage. In your case, that's 38-76 months of sustained effort. So slow down, take the long view, and work on SMALL STEPS, and learn to appreciate the small steps that your wife takes. I know it's frustrating, I've BTDT, but believe me when I say that rapid, dramatic changes don't happen in real-life (only books and movies), and if someone tries to emulate a rapid, drastic change in life-style, 99.9% of the time they quickly revert back within just a few months. You don't want that.
(2) You posts also give me the strong the impression that your wife has a deep fear of intimacy: to the point that if she finds herself feeling drawn to you physically, she will intentionally "pick a fight" in order to once again create emotional (and "safe") distance between the two of you. You also mentioned that during those times that the two of you *have* had a pleasurable, intimate experience together, she goes into full-tilt retreat afterward -- again picking a fight in order to produce distance.
With two alcoholic parents (as you mentioned), it would be a good guess that your wife's issues with and fear of intimacy have their roots in her childhood: perhaps in abandonment, perhaps in abuse (physical, emotional, or sexual), or some combination thereof. These are SERIOUS issues, and difficult to deal with, and *cannot* be fixed by reading a good book and having an "Ah Hah!" epiphany. My wife and I are both survivors of childhood abuse of one form or another, and it just doesn't fix itself overnight like that -- I wish it could be, frankly. What I would recommend is getting the two of you into counseling: professional, and well certified -- a combination of couple's and individual. And expect it to take a long time to address and HEAL (not "fix"). If I'm right, the above is not something her MD will be able to address.
In conclusion, your very male, "Mr. Fix-It," find-solve-eliminate the problem approach is quite admirable, but needs a bit of realistic seasoning to it. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
-- Jim
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I'm getting two impressions from reading through your thread, thus far:
(1) You are pushing very hard to fix the intimate relationship IMMEDIATELY. Slow it down, man.
...if she feels like she's being pushed too hard, too fast, she's going to sit down and declare "No more...I can't do it." Be glad that she IS reading the books at all, at her own pace -- go with it.
...It takes daily, conscious efforts to try and build a new habit or life-style change: something like 30-60 days of conscious effort before it begins to feel "natural" and habitual, after which you can layer on another, more advanced habit to build. Pick one book. One. Some small change (or at most two) that you can make *today*, and focus on just that for a few weeks.
From all that I have read (and have now experienced myself) it takes about 1-2 months of effort for each year that you have been married in order to truly fix or rebuild a broken marriage. In your case, that's 38-76 months of sustained effort. So slow down, take the long view, and work on SMALL STEPS, and learn to appreciate the small steps that your wife takes. I know it's frustrating, I've BTDT, but believe me when I say that rapid, dramatic changes don't happen in real-life
(2) You posts also give me the strong the impression that your wife has a deep fear of intimacy: to the point that if she finds herself feeling drawn to you physically, she will intentionally "pick a fight" in order to once again create emotional (and "safe") distance between the two of you. You also mentioned that during those times that the two of you *have* had a pleasurable, intimate experience together, she goes into full-tilt retreat afterward -- again picking a fight in order to produce distance.
With two alcoholic parents (as you mentioned), it would be a good guess that your wife's issues with and fear of intimacy have their roots in her childhood: perhaps in abandonment, perhaps in abuse (physical, emotional, or sexual), or some combination thereof. These are SERIOUS issues, and difficult to deal with, and *cannot* be fixed by reading a good book and having an "Ah Hah!" epiphany. My wife and I are both survivors of childhood abuse of one form or another, and it just doesn't fix itself overnight like that -- I wish it could be, frankly. What I would recommend is getting the two of you into counseling: professional, and well certified -- a combination of couple's and individual. And expect it to take a long time to address and HEAL (not "fix"). If I'm right, the above is not something her MD will be able to address.
In conclusion, your very male, "Mr. Fix-It," find-solve-eliminate the problem approach is quite admirable, but needs a bit of realistic seasoning to it. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Jim;
Thank you for the thoughtful advise.
You are right that I do need to slow things down. I will lighten up on the pressure I have been putting her under.
I am convinced however, to heal myself just as fast as I can and make lasting changes in who I am. Since mid August I have dropped over 20 pounds in weight and gotten in much better shape, running between 2.5 and 5 miles each workout for 3 to 5 nights a week. It has gotten a marginal type 2 diabetes condition discovered in August down into the controlled range with no outside medication, but with my doctor's approval and encouragement. I tend to throw myself into things, which is both good and bad. It is my nature, but in trying to help my marriage, I will reduce the pressure I have put on my wife.
The Five Languages of Love had a profound impact on me. For over two months now I have been trying to "fill my wife's love tank" by telling her that I love her in all of the languages of love. She has commented serval times about how much she has appeciated the change that has come over me. I think that I now understand her primary and secondary languages of love and am doing a fair job in making her feel loved for the first time in years.
As for your second point, thank you for the reference and the insight. I don't know if it is a fear of intimacy or just a fear of loosing control and changing or a combination of both. My wife is a very powerful and independent woman in someways. I know she has viewed this as a power or control issue and said so, but it could also be fear of intimacy as you say. I found her saying she wanted intimacy, but then fearing to want to be with me and fearing some of the PM exercises quite telling. I will need to think more about that.
From what I know about her and her parents, she suffered some abandonment and some verbal abuse, but no sexual abuse. I felt that her parents were cruel and manipulative people, but who on ocasion provided some love. I know that her father hit and whipped (at least once with a belt) her younger brother, but I don't think that he did that to his daughters. The abuse was so bad that her younger brother (who was adopted) had alcohol and drug addiction problems. My wife's other brother and sister have lead successful professional lives, and so I don't think they have serious addtiction problems that interfer with their lives. Her youngest brother left home prior to the end of high school and actually lived with us for a while, after he was kicked out of his parents house. He ultimately committed suicide when he was around 19 and that devistated my wife.
Thank you for sharing your BTDT experience and for sharing (in a permanent post) your summary of the four healing phases to a SSM.
While I have been pushing and will back off, my head is still spinning over last night, which I will post about in a little while. I have been pushing too hard and I need to view this as a marathon and not a sprint.
Thank you again.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Where to start? My head is spinning right now. On Sunday I thought I had had a heavy discussion and connected with my wife and had partially blown things. Yesterday I feel we may have made real progress or I may have again blown things even more. I need to slow down and now I understand that.
My update:
On Monday, morning after our talk on Sunday night about the SSM book, I felt my LD wife was avoiding me and very distant. I tried to talk to her, but she wasn’t having any of it. She even avoided coming downstairs while I was having breakfast. She only came down after I opened the garage door. We only crossed paths as I was taking out garbage, prior to leaving for work.
Monday night was much different. I now suspect that she had done a lot of thinking and actions at work. I got home from the gym a couple minutes late and as I have added weight machines to my treadmill/elliptical trainer running routine and it takes longer. She had dinner read to serve, when I walked in. I complemented and thanked her for that. She has said that she shows me she loves me by doing things for me, such as cooking dinner and having it ready when I get home.
At dinner we talked about how the other couple we had gone out with on Sunday were doing. My wife commented on how the husband’s eyes looked like a defeated man who had given up on trying to heal himself from a recent mild stroke and how his wife was trying to remain optimistic about their future years together. I told her that it is so important to try to protect one’s physical health as things happen and the ability to regain health is fragile and one doesn’t need any additional barriers to recovery. My wife complemented me on how impressive my weight loss and lifestyle control was in getting my blood glucose levels under control. She also told me how proud she was of me for the way I was exercising and going to the party with her on Saturday. She told me how someone had taken her aside at the party and said that I was wearing a really nice looking tie. I almost felt like my wife was buttering me up and I shouldn’t believe her, but I loved it. She told me that she had made an appointment with the Doctor I had suggested the night before and it was set for early January. She apologized that she couldn’t get anything earlier.
My impression was that my wife had reviewed her actions from the previous discussion and the way she treated me and found that she had behaved badly. I felt like she was trying to make up for her behavior.
After dinner she asked about the latest shipment of books that I had gotten that day in a box from Amazon.com and another from Barnes and Noble. I showed her some of the books. I got a book “I’m not in the mood: What Every Woman Should Know about Improving Her Libido,” a book on self hypnosis (for me in my exercise and weight loss), a book entitled “Why Talking is not Enough: Eight Loving Actions that will Transform your Marriage, three books about couples/sensual massage and a couples massage video DVD that I told her contained no nudity. I told her that couples massage was something that I wanted to explore with her so that I could get the touching I needed.
I now know that she probably was overwhelmed by all of the books and saw it as my pushing way too hard. I will temporarily stop buying books, as it is going to take a while to read these and it is something that she seems to be monitoring pretty closely now.
She just exploded and told me to just go out and get a massage. She asked if it was that hard to make an appointment. I felt like she was telling me to “man-up” and get what I needed in life. I said that to me, touch is special and that I really want her touch. She said she had had a massage at a spa on our last vacation and I should just go out and do it if I need to be touched. She also said that I needed to hide all of the relationship books when our adult children arrive for the holidays, as she doesn’t want them knowing about our marriage problems.
Shortly after that, my LD wife told me that she had had too much wine with dinner. I don't know if that was her way of apologizing for her blowing up at me or not. She then went up to bed.
I feel that she is really conflicted on how to act toward me. I feel that the No More Mr. Nice Guy book has helped me become more of a leader and “man” in her eyes and that she likes that, but is deeply afraid of relinquishing any control to me. I wonder if this is a deep emotional fight that is raging within her and pops up in our discussions. Alternately, based on Jim’s observations this could be a fear of intimacy issue and it could be my pushing too hard. I will lighten up the pace/pressure for her to changes.
I finished doing the dishes and cleaned up a little bit downstairs, which are some of the chores I do around the house, as acts of service, that make her feel loved. She was still reading a romance novel, when I crawled into bed. I told her that I loved her and felt that she had been a little distant. She put her book down and complained that she felt that yesterday I had been too remote, removed and detached. I told her that I was trying to work through things to become a better person and to try to fix our relationship.
She then turned out the light and lay down. This time however she rolled over and really hugged me. It felt so good that I completely broke down and started to cry and my whole body shook. I told her that I loved her and that it had been five months since she had hugged me. I think she was shocked at the power of a hug and its impact on me. I literally shock and cried for 5 or 10 minutes. I told her how much I loved her and how I thought that I had lost her. She told me she thought that I had been pushing her away. We went to sleep with her really holding me close; she was pressed up against me, hugging me and holding my hand all at once. I woke up around 4 AM and found that she had her body pressed closely against mine. It felt so good. I felt loved again and hope for our marriage.
This morning when the alarm went off, my body was sore from the weight machines I was using for the last two days, but I reached over and started to rub her back. She rolled over to expose more of her back to me. After a while she went downstairs for coffee. When she came back to bed to drink her coffee, I touched her leg as a sign of my affection. She put her feet under my leg and smiled at me. I went and showered and started to get dressed. She asked me to take her out to dinner tonight. I agreed and told her I would meet her early at local bar and grill that we both like.
I think that she wanted to build upon our feeling of closeness from last night, but I may be reading too much into things. When she got up to go to take her shower, I walked up to her and kissed her on the lips and told her that I loved her. She seemed happy and pleased.
While I am waiting for the next explosion of emotion from her, I feel so much better. I don’t know whether my breaking down from the hug last night was a “No More Mr. Nice Guy” failure or something she will view as positive. I just feel like we may have taken a step forward. It has still been almost 5 months with no sex, but I feel hopeful.
I need to keep my heart in check and review the lessons I learned from the No More Mr. Nice Guy book. I also think that I need to lighten up on some of the pressure I have been putting on her.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
She had dinner read to serve, when I walked in. I complemented and thanked her for that. She has said that she shows me she loves me by doing things for me, such as cooking dinner and having it ready when I get home.
Make a mental note of this: MOST people try to express their love for someone in the same way that *they* would like to receive it. Physically affectionate folks want to give AND receive physical affection. "Act of service" folks want to do things for others and feel loved when things are done for them.
She just told you her #1 love language -- although you probably figured that out, right?
-- Jim
P.S.: and as the Love Language book also states, one key to a successful relationship falls into place when both partners stop trying to speak to their partner in their own, personal Love Language (LL), and instead work to speak in their *partner's* LL. It takes work to get there, however: in general, people tend to very stubbornly insist that *their* own LL is supreme ("Why can't s/he be like ME!?").
Last edited by Bagheera; 12/23/0912:03 AM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
About a month and a half to two months ago, I read and re-read the Five Languages of Love and it all clicked in my head. I realized that I had been telling my wife how much I loved her by use of sex/touching and by words of affirmation toward her. She on the other hand had been telling me how much she loved me by acts of service/devotion and by spending quality time talking to me each day. I was shocked to think that the woman I loved so much and who I felt didn't love me, had been telling me all along that she loved me, but in a way that I couldn't understand. I felt so dumb and stupid!
Yes I did figure it out and made a point to do various acts of devotion for her, like fill her car with gas when it go low, do a few more chores around the house that she doesn't like, put the cloth grocery bags in the car after she goes shopping so she doesn't forget them. I also made a point of giving her quality time by asking about her day and her week in the morning and then asking questions at dinner and listening to what she felt. I also made a point to try to empathize with her and not constantly give her suggestions.
She has commented on how much she has liked the change in the way I treat her and that my changes have caused her to have feelings for me she hasn't had in a long time.
In your permanent post you talk about the four stages of SSM recover: (1) fix/heal yourself, (2) figure out what your partner needs and give them what they need, (3) get your partner on board, and (4) work together on the recovery. I started the heal myself about August of this year. I figured out what my wife needed and started to provide that in late October or early November.
I thought that my wife telling me that "she wanted to read the books I had been reading and talk about them" was sign that she was "on board." I now realize that I read a lot into that and, as you pointed out, have been pushing pretty hard. I now see getting her on board as not yet being complete, but I do think that we (as a couple) are working on the recovery.
You and others have cautioned me that it will take time. I am coming to understand that as well.
You indicate that people still want to speak in their own primary language of love. I agree with that and have thought about it even prior to your bringing it up.
My feeling is that if touch/sex are my primary language of love, I need to understand that it may not be my wife's primary language of love, but maybe if we both work at it, we can package our statements of love to each other in a way that allows us to deliver the statement of love in our language and allows our spouse to accept the statement of love in their language.
For example, if the LD partner is an act of service speaker and the HD partner is a touch/sex speaker, can't couples massage be packaged in a way that both can speak and hear love? My hope that I am going to try to experiment with is that I provide my wife with a non-sexual relaxing massage that she views as an act of service to her and yet I am allowed to deliver it as a statement of love through touching. Similarly, she can give me a back/shoulder massage as an act of devotion and I can receive it as touching.
I am looking for non-sexual ways that may be sex-like or touching that can be packaged such that my LD wife whose primary language of love is acts of service and whose secondary language of love is spending quality time will feel loved from her sex/touching primary love language husband whose secondary love language is words of affirmation.
If we can find these, then I think we can be true to ourselves and make sure that we each get the love that our partner needs. In saying this I want to be clear that I also think that I and she will need to do other things specifically in the languages of love that our partner uses that augments these "packaged" interchanges. I am committed to making my wife feel loved. I would just like to find a few ways in which we can both say I love you in a way that feels best and that is accepted as a true statement of love.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
(1) In practice, especially when the broken marriage has been limping along for a *long* time (i.e. 15, 20, 30+ years), each one of the generic steps to "recovery" that I outlined will take a proportionally long time. For example, "Phase 1" (getting past the anger and resentment and healing myself) took about six months while my wife and I were separated. It then took another few months to dig in and really study this relationship stuff to the point where felt like I had a much better idea as to HOW to have a successful marriage, as opposed to just *wanting* a better marriage (an education process which continues today). In other words, don't expect "overnight conversions" on your own part: (a) they don't work in the long-term, and (b) you'd be surprised at just how many old resentments, how much old rejection hurt, etc. you are still harboring (and which will rear up and bite you -- and her -- at unexpected moments). Give yourself time to digest and adjust yourself.
(2) The first two "Phases" that I described are also steps that SHE will have to go through. This means that for a time (several months) there will be a mismatch between what phases you and your wife are on, respectively. YOU might have worked hard to get past your own anger and resentment to the point of rediscovering your own hope in the potential for a healthy, happy relationship, but SHE is still stuck in Phase 1 --> angry, resentful, disappointed, hopeless, and resigned to the status quo. You have to give her time to walk that path.
In my own case, it took about six months or so of my working on Phase 2 before my wife had gotten through the bulk of Phase 1 and rediscovered *her own* hope for us as a happy couple again. Prior to that point, she was very skeptical of all of my proclamations about all of the great stuff that I had learned and was willing to change..."yeah right...you're about 20 years too late, buddy". Cinco took a similar (many month) time period of diligent work to bring his wife around.
You can't expect your wife to jump into Phase 4 just because you've gone through phases 1 & 2 yourself, and are making efforts at 3. That moment when she finally "gets it," and is willing to come on board with you, will *only* occur when she has passed through her own "valley" of expressing and exorcising most of the old "baggage" that you two have built up over 30+ years.
-- Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Thank you again for explaining the "it will take a long time before things are healed."
Your explaination about my LD wife needing to get through phases 1 & 2 before she can really commit to and participate in phase 4 makes scense to me. While it doesn't make me happy, it makes sense and is something that I need to come to grips with and believe deep inside myself.
Your caution that steps 1 & 2 also takes time is also sobering. While I feel I have started on steps 1 & 2 and have noticable achievements in both, you are right that achieving them is not the same as starting them and having some initial success, they need to be lasting changes in who I am and how I act.
Again the marathon rather than the sprint. Thank you for the coaching.
I am hearing what you and others have said and I am trying to change my behaviors and beliefs. I have found this forum to be quite a resource of support, new ideas and coaching from people who have been there and done that. Several of the books that have really changed my view on things were suggested by others in this forum. The people here have also given me hope and cautioned me about having too short a time-line in regards to my expectations.
I also have heard the advice to not push so hard as it will backfire. I know that it took years for the problems to build and it took months of no sex before my wife recognized that there was a problem that needs to be addressed by us. I am working to learn to accept that it will take months and months for the problems to be reversed. My original expectation on trying to have myself in a happy sexual relationship within 12 to 18 months of my stopping having sex with my wife were (as I now understand) very optimistic. I now understand that it will take longer to get to that goal.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Not sure how things are going. The two-month sex sabbatical has ended without a comment on my wife's part and no initiation of sex on her part and some avoidance by her of situtations that might lead to sex.
She recently informed me that she has scheduled us for a meeting with a sex therapist for this Saturday. I am going to take that as a sign that maybe she is starting to think that we need to have sex again.
I did convince her to go to a woman doctor that specializes in low libido and women's hormone and health issues. She went on January 5th and the doctor is also a certified sex therapist. The night before my wife went I asked her to talk to the doctor about a number of things (all that my wife finds embarrasing) and to tell the doctor that our marriage is in crisis. We had one hell of a fight that night with her cursing me and telling me how insensitive I was.
The outcome of her doctor's appointment was that my wife is now going to be starting individual sex therapy with the doctor and the doctor recommended a couple of different sex therapists for us to see as a couple.
Now my questions for those who have gone as a couple to a sex therapist....
Any suggestions? Any topics you would recommend I bring up. Share any of my goals, hopes, dreams, fears? Just go with an open mind and see what the therapist can do?
Thanks
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
