38 years & I need physical connection with my wife

[Young at Heart]

Thanks! I really do trust my sex therapist and am amazed at how skilled she is.

But I think it's good that you have an understanding of how frightened she is, because it's hard to to be bitter and angry in this situation. Again, there's a balance to be found between the kind of bitterness that slowly makes you hate your wife and want to walk away on the one hand, and the kind of weakness that makes you want to tell her it's OK and hold her hand when she's hurting you.

That is a really interesting comment. I do love my wife and I do feel that she is frightened and in way over her head. I think that she understands how serious this is, but has not yet realized that her old paterns of behavior are no longer going to cut it any more.

By not being in the "leadership" or "parent" role on the exercises, I can be supportive and "hold her hand" and be supportive as you say.

I also think that the therapist has seen this type of behavior before. If the therapist wanted to (or if it were ethical-which it may be) she could probably summarize what my wife is doing within a couple of minutes for me and explain the theory of what makes my wife tick. More frightening (or intriguing) she could probably dissect what makes me tick in about the same amount of time or less.

Really . . . I don't know if you realize how hard that is to find. There are no sex therapists within an hour and a half of my home, as far as I can tell, and I live halfway between two major cities and very near our state capital. If you've seen others talking about trying to find a sex therapist (or a marriage counselor who would rather save a marriage than guide people through a really aware, amicable divorce) you probably do realize it. I wish you could recommend this therapist, but I realize that might compromise your own anonymity (and what would your wife's reaction to that be?)

I have suspected that they are rare and I know the history of mine and how by a series of weird things she ended up in a city near where I live.

What was amazing was that I had researched sex therapists and had a list of them to give to my wife along with the female doctor and sex therapist who specializes in women with low libido and hormone balance issues. The female doctor recommended two marriage councelors, both of whom were sex therapists. My wife insisted we use one of the two. The two were not on my list, so I did some google searches and this one was was listed and published in everything. When I saw that and read some of her publications there was no choice in my mind. I causually told my wife that I liked this one (without elaborating) and my wife jumped at it.

If anybody lives in Washington State and is willing to send me a private message, I would be happy to forward them the therapists name. But I have to warn you that I don't really check to see if I have private messages, except on rare occasions. So it could take a while for me to respond.

Thank you for the support. I expect that the next couple of weeks will be interesting to see if my wife tries to avoid the therapy exercises or not. I am sure that will be her natural inclination, but I also think that if she does, she is going to be on the recieving end of quite a 5-minute chat after we send the email status update.

I think that my wife, whether she knows it or not is on a short lease and I have the freedom of being there to comfort my wife and reap the benefits of the short lease.

One of the really interesting things is how many passionate people there are out there, such as the members of this website, who are willing to share experiences and offer suggestions. The suggested responses, the books that have suggested and the sharing of things that haven't worked plus the support have really helped me a lot in the few months I have been a member. Thank you to everyone.

And yet how wonderful it is to find a professional sex therapist who really knows her stuff and is a cross between a drill instructor, a mother figure, and old friend.

I am truly luck and blessed. I know that no matter how this ends, that I will have tried to save my marriage through my efforts and the help of a lot of wonderful people. Again, I am hopeful for success, but realize that it is a marathon and not a sprint, and that I can only change myself.

I touch back in a while after I see how my wife deals with all that she was exposed to last night.

[Young at Heart]

I just want to note a real breakthrough at least from my perspective.

This morning we were suppose to have our "sensate focus exercise with negotiated back massage." It didn't happen, but that is OK.

Last night we had some real time to relax and reconnect. We talked a lot. Earlier in the day, I had done the laundry, the dishes and some other things around the house. These were things that she was fretting over having to do when she got back late at night from a conference. I was away much of the day at a memorial service for someone I knew. On the way home I picked up some good red wine and a bottle of brandy.

When we both got home, we talked about some of our readings from the sex therapist. I poured my wife a glass of brandy and we talked some more. There were two articles in particular that we talked most about. The first was about interjecting humor and playfulness into our relationship. We both said that this was something we each wanted to do and work on. The second article included a segment on kissing. I told my wife that I would like to kiss her. She talked to me and then asked me if I was serious. I told her yes I was.

Later that night after she turned out the lights. we hugged each other and I rubbed her neck and shoulders. We actually joked about the sounds her sinuses make when I flex certain neck muscles. After laughing, she asked if I would still like to kiss her. I said I really wanted to and we kissed (closed lips). After a few minutes it became french kissing. After a while longer it became kissing and hugging and foreplay....and then......intercourse.

Our marital 5 months without sex ended last night. We hugged each other and cuddled most of the night. It felt so special.

I feel really re-connected to my wife, for the moment. This morning we drank coffee and read the Sunday newspaper together, then we went out for breakfast. After breakfast we went for a hike at a local park. We talked a lot during breakfast and on our hike.

Hopefully we can keep the connection going without pushing and hopefully, my wife can open up to me. I told her that I still owe her a back massage from this morning and she needs to collect it anytime she feels tired.

Life is good. (I feel like purchasing two Valentine's Day presents, one for my wife and one for our sex therapist.)

[SillyOldBear]

Uh . . . go you!

Don't be too shocked if she backslides now. I wouldn't have been surprised from her earlier behavior if she'd acted distant again in the morning (it's great that she didn't, but it could still be coming.) But even if she does, treat it like a temporary setback. You're accomplishing great things.

This looks to me like she's been showing you all her fear, but not all the thoughts and spinning wheels in her mind. I doubt she just suddenly decided to kiss you. All that work you did that felt like banging your head against the wall was getting through, she just wasn't ready to let you see it.

[Young at Heart]

.....Don't be too shocked if she backslides now.

...This looks to me like she's been showing you all her fear, but not all the thoughts and spinning wheels in her mind. I doubt she just suddenly decided to kiss you. All that work you did that felt like banging your head against the wall was getting through, she just wasn't ready to let you see it.

I fully expect some backsliding. One the the early thing the therpist told us was a way to view transactions and she called my wife out on one style, which is the style of being the rebelious child trying to get your partner into being the authoritarian parent. The therapist explained that ideally, when it comes to sex, we both want to assume curious, child-like mental states where we can explore, play and just have fun together. She explained that some people use alcohol to "medicate" themselves into a curious, playful child-like state, but the sex is better if you don't have to do that.

I feel that the therapist has seen my wife's behavior paterns alot and has her figured out to a "T." The way she just jumps in and leads my wife in some of the discussions is just amazing. I just need to listen and better understand the exchanges between my wife and the therapist to learn how to better interact with my wife.

As to banging my head against the wall, since I have stopped, the lack of pain feels really good. As I said above, I am not sure if it was my actions or the way that the therapist just zeroed in on my wife's thougths, actions and emotions that has produced results. I will actually give lots of credit to the therapist in helping my wife focus her thinking and thoughts, with me in a supporting role.

Seriously, we were hugging even last night and even this morning. I am going to keep using all five of the Five Languages of Love methods of telling my wife that I love her in the hope of filling her love bank to the brim. My biggest fear is that I not smother my wife and give her some time to be by herself, so that she feels loved but not overwhelmed.

Again, I need to repeat my mantra about this is a marathon and not a sprint (and all the other things I need to remember). I also really need to re-read No More Mr. Nice Guy.

I hope that my wife and I are at the beginning of a process that will bring us much closer together. We are closer now than we have been in more than five months and I hope for even more in the future.

Good luck to you.

[Tim2point0]

Young: I haven't read this whole thread carefully, but I just wanted you to know I'm another in similar shoes, and I completely understand what you're going through. Click on my username and click "Show Posts", and you'll see I have a long history here. W and I have had R problems longtime now. We're just beginning another round of counseling, and while I'm hopeful, I'm really beginning to believe there may not be much hope for the kind of relationship I want. I'm 54 and she's 56, we've been married 30+ years with 3 lovely kids, and we've probably tried most of the things you could think to try. So far no luck. It seems to me that she likes the status quo, and basically doesn't want things to change. That's very bad news for me. I hope I'm wrong...

[Young at Heart]

I will read your posts and get back to you.

Don't give up hope. I really believe that sex therapy, my working on GAL, No More Mr. Nice Guy, and making my wife feel she is loved in her languages of love (Chapman 5 languages of love) has all made a big difference. The support I have gotten here and the advice to slow down were also very important to me.

My wife and I have had sex a second time now and I think that things are starting to improve a lot. We have run away for the weekend and playing together.

Good luck to you!

[Young at Heart]

This past weekend was wonderful, and disheartening.

My wife and I ran away for a weekend at a fancy hotel to go to a museum, shopping and play tourist. Friday night we went out an had martini's and appetizers for dinner. That night we snuggled and talked when we went to bed. I felt close to her.

Saturday morning, I gave her a 30-minute foot massage (I have been studying some reflexology books) followed by a 20-minute lower leg and thigh massage. Then she pulled me onto her and we made love slowly and wonderfully. She climaxed and so did it. It has been years since we made love in the morning. She never use to want to have sex when it was light outside for fear that I would see her body. It was always at night, with the lights out. We then eventually got up and had a late brunch before going off to a museum and having a fun day that included lots of shopping for things for both her and me. We went to a fancy french restaurant for dinner and snuggled and hugged when we went to bed.

Sunday morning, I gave her a back massage. I then asked her to give me a back massage, as it was part of our sex therapy homework. She reluctantly gave me a short back massage. She told me she really didn't like to massage me and asked me to get a professional massage. In fact she insisted that I get a professional massage within the next two weeks.

Sunday night however, was a bit bitter. I have always felt that when she gets too close to me emotionally, that she needs to do something that creates distance. Last night she was moody and when we talked I almost felt that she was trying to pull back and/or was overwhelmed.

She asked me in an amazed kind of way if I would really leave her, like I said I would to our therapist. I told her that yes, as I need to feel loved and the primary way that I feel loved is through sex and being touched. I told her that is just who I am, it is me. When I said that, it had been over five months since I felt loved, even though I knew she loved me. She asked me to elaborate on when it was that we stopped making love. I told her last August and gave her when it was exactly in a way that she knew I understood the day. She asked me what had changed last summer in our love making, as she didn't remember any change. I then explained the specific things I remembered about how our sex-life deteriorated quickly last summer.

She then asked me if being emotionally close wasn't important to me, was it just sex that I needed. I explained to her that I need to have sex and be touched because I want to feel emotionally bonded to her, which were the words I used with the sex therapist. To me what I really want in my relationship with my wife is to feel emotionally bonded to her and that sex and touch are the primary means for accomplishing that. I started to tell her about the book Hold Me Tight, by Sue Johnson, but my wife cut me off.

I told my wife that I was trying to communicate my love to her in the ways that she could hear and understand and that until I had read Chapman's the Five Languages of Love, that I have been clueless as to how she needed to have love expressed to her. I also told her that I need her to tell me that she loves me in my languages of love. She asked me if I hadn't heard her ask me to love her earlier in our marriage. She demanded to know if I had just ignored her pleas. I said that if I had heard her asking me to love her, I hadn't understood what she needed.

She then blew up and said to me how could I put her through over fifteen years of pain, just because I didn't know how to tell her I loved her in the ways she needed. She said that not understanding was no reason to have hurt her. In my best couples communications skills, I decided not to be defensive, not to point out that she had also hurt me over those years. Instead, I just said that I was sorry, but I just didn't know.

She then asked how I could learn things through books instead of learning though talking to her. I explained that I didn't know why and was sorry, but at least now I understood how to show her that I loved her in a way that she could hear me. She told me that the past few months, she really felt much more connected to me emotionally because of the things I had done for her around the house (acts of service/devotion) and the time I had devoted to talking to her about what she was doing and how she felt (quality time). She told me that she has to feel emotionally close to me in order for their to be sex between us. She also told me that she needs to feel emotionally close to me in order for her to talk to me like this. She said a few months ago, she could have never spoken to me like this.

She also told me that she is feeling like her soul is being ripped appart. She really has self-image body issues and that it is very hard for her to touch me or have sex with me. I told her that I appreciated her recent actions as they had made me feel loved for the first time in many many months and that I did feel loved.

I sense that she has recognized that I have changed and am changing how I interact with her and that I have made a commitment to myself to find happiness. She also knows that my commitment to myself could result in my leaving her. She is struggling to figure out if she is willing to change to remain part of my life or if she will refuse to change and have me leave her. Part of her actions I see as wanting to test me to see if I will leave and part of them are trying to verify what she already knows to make sure she doesn't have some option on not changing. The actions may also be testing herself to see what she really wants.

I am reminded of the four-stages of SSM recovery where (1) each partner must work on getting a life and changing themselves, (2) committing to learning how to make their partner happy and feel loved, (3) committing to their relationship and committing to improving it and (4) then working as a team to implement the changes needed to improve the marriage.

I feel that my wife is struggling with her willingness to embrace change in order to save our marriage. I see huge steps at change, but also a reluctance to change. I also see her trying to bring up reasons why she can't change and why she doesn't need to change.

I now understand that her changing so that she can again provide me with the touching and sex that I need will be very difficult for her and require her to face some things she really would rather avoid. I just pray that she will be able to do that and that I will be able to support her in a way that helps her.

Last night she would not hug me or allow me to hug her. This morning, I got up early to go on a business trip that will keep me away from home for a couple of nights. I brought her coffee for her to dink in bed this morning. Before I left this morning, she got up and came over to kissed me goodbye.

I hope that she will kiss me and hug me when I return. To try to stack the odds in my favor, a florist will be deliverying Valentine's Day flowers at work for her this morning.

[Tim2point0]

You really are trying, and it sounds like your W can see how hard you're trying. I do hope for your sake that she decides it's worth it to give up something of her past behaviors in order to stay married. I think that's one thing that gets in the way a lot of the time - one or both being unwilling to truly see things differently and create a different reality going forward. Good luck, and keep us posted!

[haphazard]

Hi Young,

This tears me apart to read this. I think it is so hard to communicate to each other in different love languages. I was not a LDW, for most of our marriage the sex was good and for a lot of it the sex was the only good bit. It was only the last three or four years that even that went. My H really struggled to give me the quality time I craved, and I struggled with giving him the acts of service he needed. I guess I can really understand why your W says she feels her soul is being ripped apart. I guess if I had really thought about it and we had talked it through to the same level you guys have then if my H had said "I can't feel loved unless you keep the house spotless and iron my shirts" then I would have needed to vomit. It would have had me in tears. Because to me doing stuff like that is BORING and SOUL DESTROYING so doing it even to please the man I (at one time) loved was very difficult and very hard not to keep score over what he was doing in return. No doubt to him it felt like he was asking for very little and why wouldn't you do these kindnesses for the one you love?

I guess every time he would come home from work and the house wasn't in apple pie order he felt unloved. Just as I felt unloved when he would spend evening after evening in front of the computer barely exchanging a word with me.

The very worst thing in the world to me was when our marriage was becoming SSM and it felt like the only time he would become amorous was when I was doing the dishes.

I think marriage preparation classes should check which love languages you speak and if you don't speak the same ones then you should nix the M.

[Tim2point0]

I think marriage preparation classes should check which love languages you speak and if you don't speak the same ones then you should nix the M.

Definitely I think the classes should focus WAY more on communication and compatibility than I remember they did 30-odd years ago. Not sure what they're like now, but W and I attended two different ones, and here we are with lifelong difficulties. Perhaps if we'd had a *completely* honest and frank discussion about the relative importance of sex to each of us, we might not have been married in the first place, and perhaps that would have been the best thing. Moot now, of course.