I don't understand why you even need to keep talking about it? I already said I don't agree with your opinion, so you feel its necessary to describe your opinion again and again, hoping I will eventually agree? Have fun with that, I guess.
I came upon this interesting tidbit from the eminent sex advice columnist, Dan Savage that is relevant to the topic and both thoughtful and provocative:
Over the past few years, my husband and I have realized that he has needs that I cannot meet. I do not begrudge him these needs, and I would fill them if I could. I want him to be a happy and satisfied person, not just for him, but for myself as well. We discussed opening our relationship, but our therapist recoiled at the idea. If I can’t help him and we can’t have someone else help him, what can we do? We can’t imagine breaking up, but if we’re both unhappy, then I can only assume that we will split eventually or one of us will act out in resentment. We have been together for over a decade and love each other deeply. I am physically sick over this situation, and I don’t know what to do. I don9 9t know that I fully trust our therapist, and I would like to hear an informed second opinion. I value your advice. —Life Decisions Here’s an informed second opinion: F**k your a**hole therapist. And here’s a better-informed bonus third opinion: “It’s incredibly unfortunate that some therapists either aren’t educated about open relationships or buy into common myths about them,” says Tristan Taormino, activist, author, pornographer, and author of Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships. Way too many therapists, she says, “pathologize people who want to openmtheir relationships and try to convince them that they have intimacy or commitment issues. The truth is you can be both intimate with and fully committed to more than one partner, or be committed to one partner and have sex with others.” Tristan interviewed scores of couples in successful open relationships, and she found that many initially opened their relationships because of an issue of sexual incompatibility. “The scenario you present is not uncommon,” she continues. “If both of you really are committed to giving it a go, I’d advise you to find a new therapist, one who has experience with—and not a prejudice against—nonmonogamous clients. The right therapist can help you figure out your limits, set boundaries, and make an agreement about this new type of relationship that works for both of you.” You can also check out the stories, advice, and references at Tristan’s website, openingup.net. Good luck, LD.
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
Bob - I saw this post on another marriage forum and thought I would copy and paste it for you, so you can see some other stories about swinging.....
So...my wife and I did something really stupid with our marriage. I guess we just took it for granted. We thought "hey, why not start swinging?" And we did. My wife and I truely love each other and are very devoted, so I thought anyway. It went great for about 3 months and even boosted our sex life with each other. Great right? So I went on a business trip and she said she was hooking up with a guy. No biggie, we had the rules layed out an all. But this one turned bad. She got emotionally involved with this guy and talked to him on the phone and texting for the next 4 days until I got home. Funny how she didn't seem the same on the phone after the night she went out with him. So she tells me the night I get home that she thinks we need a break!!!! We talked about it and she didn't come out and say anything about being involved with this guy after the fact. I was devistated. But after reviewing phone records the next morning it was apparent something was going on between them and they were texting each other constantly until the moment she pulled in the driveway after returning from work the day I got home. Also, she didn't respond to me when I was trying to get a hold of her that day.
Now, I went crazy about this and told the guy never to speak to her again (to put it nicely). She met with him that day and "she says" that they agreed not to contact each other anymore and as far as I know they haven't. She said she needed to see him to see if HE was the reason for these feelings she was having and she said it wasn't him. We continued to talk this over that weekend and she really seemed ligit in her concern about out marriage and not sure what was happening. She isn't sure what she wants anyone and that she needs to move out but still wants to be a family.......sounds funny to me. She cryed, I cryed and we both know this swinging crap is the cause of all this. She isn't sure now if she wants to be married all her life or where her life is going, but she does admit that it figures she would screw it up.
She now has an apartment and will be moving out on the first of the month. Currently, everything goes on in the house as if nothing is happening.....I cant take it! She claims now that it wasn't just the "guy" but it was something building up for a while and we were growing apart. I didn't see it that way. Neither one of us hate the other or even dislike each other. We get along so great and even during all of this. But I kind of just want to blow up and wipe my hands clean mostly because I cant believe a "boy toy" fling screwed up a wonderful marriage. I am so confused by all of this........
The "plan" is to rebuild our marriage back the way it is/was/should be. Any she feels she needs to make this move in order to do this. Am I being stupid if I buy into this or am I being strung along as a husband?
I haven't been here in quite a long time, but I noticed that you had responded to my post, and I thought I'd continue what I feel is a fruitful conversation.
My wife and I have been involved in three ways for nearly a year now. Neither of us has any desire to see anyone separately. We found that it has lead to a wonderful sense of freedom and our sex life is beyond my wildest dreams. I am in my early 60's and she's in her 50's and we make love 25 to 30 times a month. And it is almost always wonderful. We find ourselves playing verbally and sexually in the kitchen, livingroom and den! Even in the car, even on the phone. We send very suggestive emails back and forth daily.
We are madly in love with each other. We email the other guy from time to time, but always c.c. each other as well. Whoever receives his email forwards it on to the other so that we are never in the dark about anything.
When an encounter is coming up, we talk about it, fantasize together about it and it has almost always been fulfilling and rewarding.
I am not suggesting this to anyone else. It works for us. I don't know why, but it does, and I truly don't care why it does.
I don't believe that people are naturally monogamous, and I think that three ways allow us to experience something different without one of us betraying the other.
I will say that my wife doesn't want a three way with another woman, nor does she want me to do that with another couple. I told her that it would appeal to me, but I have absolutely no qualms about not doing that. The sex life we have together, including our 3 ways, is exceptionally fulfilling and neither of us have any inclination to stop at this time or any time in the near future.
So, while you have cited another couple's experience, mine is different. Yes, a lot of people who have open marriages of different types end up separated. A lot of people who commit or say they have committed to a monogamous relationships also break up.
I will agree that when one or the other person becomes uncomfortable with it, you have to stop, negotiate and if you can't come to an agreement, then find other ways to have fun together. Arm twisting will only damage a relationship.
I had an open mind about this as did my wife, going into it. We were both a bit scared and hesitant. But we had enough faith in the strength of our relationship to know that we would be committed to working things out if it turned out to be a bad experience.
So, it's not for everyone. It may not even be the right thing for almost anyone. But it's right for us.
I would be really interested in hearing from others who have been involved in similar experiences both good and bad.
bob
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
Well, Bob, Dancequeen and Keyzblew all admitted it, right? I know I write about things here that I wouldn't elsewhere, because this is the only place, either online or in the "real world," where I hide my identity.
I can't help but wonder whether age makes a difference here. Can a 50s-60s couple (do I recall correctly that neither Bob nor his bride are on their first marriage?) have an advantage over a 30-year-old couple when it comes to making sense of an open marriage?
I will say that I have the group sex fantasies that it seems most men have, and women too. But I've reached the point where I think I know myself well enough to know I prefer the fantasy to the reality. My problem is not that my life is too simple, and adding complexities is not going to help.
Truthfully, I think age and maturity is a big difference. I could have never handled this 10 years ago and even more.
You are right in assuming my wife and I are not on first marriages. We both escaped from sexually sterile marriages and we really really appreciate the fact that we both love and desire each other.
You may well be better staying with the fantasy rather than the reality. And if that works for you, why not? For us, the fantasies were nice for a while, but we had that nagging feeling that we wanted to at least explore the next step. We both trusted each other enough to know that there was no way we would have wanted someone else anywhere near as much as we want each other. And we both knew that if either of us were uncomfortable with this that we would stop.
In fact, at one point, she didn't want to continue. It bothered her. So, I agreed that we would put an end to it. Then, after a while, she found the desire to have sex with someone else growing again. I was very ok with that within our boundaries. So, we are continuing, in a VERY selective way, to continue our explorations. And so far we are really enjoying it.
bob
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
The only thing I can say is this: One of the things I love most about my marriage and my husband is the fact that he would never, ever share me (sexually) with anyone else. His sexual possession of me is my greatest aphrodesiac. It makes me want him sexually all the time.
Where I work, there are several really cute girls who work there with me. Some of them dress very sexy, showing some blatant cleavage or miles of legs in short skirts with sexy stockings. These girls have boyfriends or husbands. All I can think of is "wow, its so sad that their boyfriend doesn't cherish them enough to insist that she keeps her goodies covered up in public, especially at work". In my life, my man wouldn't let me out the door in something that shows any cleavage or too much leg.
Don't get me wrong - I am a sexpot and I look sexy no matter what I wear...so its not like I dress like a bum or an old lady. And my husband makes sure to flatter me and tell me that no matter what the other girls are wearing, I still look the sexiest in any room I walk into.
But the point is that he will not share even a glimpse of my flesh with anyone else. He knows they will be checking me out anyway, but at least he also knows that they will never be able to see down my shirt or too much of my legs. He knows that this is special, only for him, and that I want it that way, too. He isn't inhibiting me. It is my choice to respect his wishes to not share my skin with others.
When I get home from work, he peels my clothes off layer by layer and makes sure my skin gets all the attention it could possibly ever want.
Sharing ourselves only with each other and being fully monogamous has its own type of sexual excitement. We can even take this further and make a whole game out of it in the bedroom (use your imagination).
If he ever wanted to share me in any way, I would wonder "who is this man and what have you done with my husband?" Even if he just suggested that I dress extra showy-sexy-lots of skin showing, and we went out on the town just to see how the men would stare at me...to some couples, that might seem flattering to her. It might be a turn on to some men to have men stare at his woman. But as I already said, men will stare at me no matter what I wear and this is NOT a turn on to my husband. He is ok with it as he knows that's how men are, its never going to change. But to suggest that we go out to deliberately catch the glances of other men? I would think he was on drugs or had a concusion. It is just not the way we enjoy each other.
Of course, not all couples are the same and I can respect that you and your wife are both enjoying the swapping/sharing thing that you are doing. I am just trying to offer to you this - just because you think that you are doing something that is at the height of most people's fantasies, I and my husband have a different fantasy. We have the fantasy of hot monogamous behavior, possessiveness, and ownership of each other's bodies.
And as far as variety...I have already said earlier on your thread, with role play, imagination, and a good sex closet, either of us can be ANYONE we want to be...there is no lack of variety in our monogamy. I am every woman, he is every man. And even the man-woman lines can be blurred within your own imagination.
I have no issue with anything you said. It works great for us and it wouldn't work for you. My wife finds it hot to hear other guys get as excited over he as they do, and her excitement is an aphrodisiac to me.
Personally, I am more comfortable with a 3 way than with role playing....I just can't get it out of my head that it is only a game. We've done some role playing, with some success, but it's really not the same for us.
bob
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
quick addition. If I gave the impression that my wife and I don't enjoy sex with just the two of us, that is far from the mark. We make love about 25 or 30 times a month and we only allow someone else to join us in bed about 3 or 4 times a year - certainly not a nightly ritual.
bob
divorced in 2003 Married in 12/2005 born 1948 wife born 1958 divorced in 2001
