I wanted to add that when the sex in my marriage died out, it left an awful hole in my life. It made me feel half-dead. Joining with my lover made me feel alive again. That power of a woman's love to rejuvenate life was what I was missing. I wasted so many years searching for a way to fill my life and feel alive again. I finally realized that I would only find this with one true love. If this was not to be with my wife, then I would find another woman who would love me as much as I loved her.
This feeling of life-giving is most powerful with my true love - my wife. Thankfully she wants this with me now. However it did not have to be with her. The only way I could have had this with another woman would have been to let go of my wife first.
SSM, this is what you seem to be entirely blind to. THERE IS NO WAY with you current mind and behaviors, that you could be an attractive sexual partner to your W. Given you have been this way for a long time, there is no way you have any real insight as to what you W's SD would be in a healthy R to a partner she found attractive. Right now, YOU are the biggest barrier to intimacy in your M. Quit focusing on rationalizing your behavior and justifying your conceit about how W works.
If you can't man up and be a decent husband, be loving, faithful, passionate, and insist on a great M for both of you, then leave already.
Crikey - you've got so many reasons and bits of pieces of evidence of why it's all your wife's fault. It must be her age, it must be her libido, it must be her health ....
it's got nothing to do with you .... you're perfect.
Problem is - you're wife's not the one posting here or looking for answers - you are ... so what are you going to do about your problems?
Last edited by Walking; 01/31/1012:27 AM.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
it's got nothing to do with you .... you're perfect.
Quite the opposite. As I wrote before, there is nothing wrong with her NOT wanting sex. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with me wanting sex. The only problem is that we are currently mismatched.
There is nothing wrong with menopause and its effects. It's a human reality. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with men like me who are just as horny as they were when they were teenagers. I would like my wife to be more sexual. My wife would like me to be less sexual. It's completely symmetric.
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Problem is - you're wife's not the one posting here or looking for answers - you are ... so what are you going to do about your problems?
What I've done so far is stay in the SSM, and after many years ended up having sex elsewhere. Not sure I would have repeated that course of action had I known how it would end up. I was too optimistic about my chances of fixing the problem earlier, due in great part to all the advice about how women reach their sexual peak later in life, and how therapy can fix things. And we had lots of therapy.
So, yes, the gradual lessening of that initial high is normal. That doesn't mean it disappears forever, unless the two of you were a bad match or had negative baggage to begin with.
This lessening effect isn't the same for everyone, apparently. Even in the third decade of my marriage, I got a thrill of going out to a restaurant with my wife. Likewise, I remember talking to one woman years ago who admitted that she had never felt that kind of thrill with anyone, not even on a first date. I didn't know what to tell her, other than that the right person just hadn't happened along for her yet. Clearly there are individual difference in capacity for these feelings and the length to which they can be sustained.
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I am not a raving sex maniac. Not a 'nympho' (hate that word) but do have a higher libido than my H.
Though it doesn't make any sense, my first reaction is to think your husband is a lucky man to have you. But of course, that makes no more sense than saying my wife is lucky to have me, and neither of us is happy about that aspect of our relationship.
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You guys have hormonal problems as you age,too, don't forget. That old "T" gets lower along with your "equipment".
Well, again, this apparently differs greatly among men too, as it does among women. I'll be 60 in a few years, and sex is still pretty much the same preoccupation and performance it was in my teenage years. A slight improvement has been that I no longer have as many unwanted embarrassing erections. So unless my sex drive drops precipitously in a few years, and if I live only to life expectancy of 74 years (not sure what it is for men in the USA these days), I might not even experience anything but high drive to the day I die.
At this point, it would be hugely reaffirming to be in a relationship where my partner was truly receptive to all of my sexual energy. In fact, I find it hard to even imagine how good that would feel. I'm so used to feeling that there is no appropriate place for my sexual feelings, and that I just have to juggle things and play a high-wire act to have any kind of sexual experiences, never mind having them as often as I'd like.
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Without an intimate connection & strong habit of communicating, that's extremely difficult to resolve.
But sometimes even an intimate connection (nonsexual) and lots of communication may still not solve the problem. The discouraging fact in my relationship is that we have already had a huge amount of talk therapy around this issue, and it's more apparent now that there may simply be hormonal or undefined reasons for my wife's lack of interest. Most people, upon first hearing of our problem, suggest we do all the things we've already done as if "well, do it one more time then!" is going to solve the problem. I should examine myself. I'm the biggest impediment to myself. Look in the mirror. Etc. Yeah, great, I've been to lots of individual therapy about this ALREADY, and it has helped with the understanding. And as a result, my wife and I get along quite well. Which for many people solves the problem. Apparently, we are one of the few for which these steps has not yet solved the sexual mismatch. That's just reality.
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All the issues like rejection, body image, feeling as if one can't turn one's spouse on, are there for an HD wife as they are for an HD husband.
Yeah, I went through all those feelings when our SSM years first started. I don't feel that way anymore, which has helped us get along better, and even have a sense of humor about our SSM.
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The fear that you'll never have sex again heightens desire-those brain chemicals again.
In my case it's a fear of never having a normal sexual relationship that's frequent and integrated with my whole life.
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Do read the book, even if it sounds frivolous. It isn't. It won't solve your problem, but will give you a ton of insight. *So THAT's what was wrong with Tiger Woods......**
Yeah, he's an interesting case all right. With a wife like his, I would have stayed home every night. Unless she had shut him off long ago. But that's the trouble with these publicized marital disasters -- it might not be the whole story of what is really going on in their marriage.
And I will take a look at that book. I read the Amazon comments.
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Meanwhile, know that we 'higher desire than our H's' women are empathetic. Hang tough,
Yep, been doin' that for a long time, with a sense of humor. Thanks!
ssmguy said: "I was too optimistic about my chances of fixing the problem earlier, due in great part to all the advice about how women reach their sexual peak later in life, and how therapy can fix things."
And once again, you've got an excuse as to why you chose the way you did. It wasn't you or your choice, you were misled by "them" (whoever "them" is) to believe something that wasn't true. Instead of following your own inner instincts, which were telling you all along that you weren't happy with your marriage, you "hoped for a different future" and blindly assumed it would change somehow...you, of course, didn't need to change, the situation would just "magically" change by itself for the better, somehow, someday. And yet, you can't see how we all can't understand how this totally wasn't your fault or choice, because you were "too optimistic" because of all the "great advice" (from whom, not sure, you keep pointing fingers so all we know it somehow it wasn't you).
ssmguy...please remember...I was in your shoes. I made the exact same mistakes, assumed "the best" would somehow happen on its own, that my marriage would magically heal itself, that I could just stop cheating whenever I wanted to, and that if I held out long enough, either my husband would magically change or I would leave and somehow have to face my new life without him. Mostly I assumed the magical story would happen though, I didn't really assume I'd end up divorced.
My thinking went basically like this: It wasn't really MY fault that I was unfaithful. What could I possibly do to help my marriage that I hadn't already done? And oh well, it didn't matter all that much did it? I was still coming home every night, taking care of my family, being there for them, loving them, did it really matter if I just got a quick sexual thrill now and then from other than my husband? It was simply a thrill, what was the big damn deal? Certainly my taking care of my entire family was showing my true colors and the thrill was just a side thing that I "needed" because my husband didn't give me what I "needed". I "needed" it you see, therefore because it was a "need" of mine I was entitled to get that "need" met.
Oh and at least I will wait until the kids are gone, if I'm going to leave...because afterall, somehow magically it won't hurt them if they are a bit older, versus now while they are under age. Somehow leaving their father while they are under age would be just tragic, but leaving when they are older is better because they will be adults and they will "understand my reasons" for leaving. Then will then be old enough to be on my side, you see. Because I'm so justified and entitled.(End train of thinking.)
So...mr. ssm...I am not just lecturing you. I WAS YOU. And now I am divorced, and yes we waited until the kids were older and did that make it easier? Freakin' hell, no. Did it make the kids understand my position? Yes but they would have EVENTUALLY any way, and besides that, they also understand my husband's decision to go easily into divorce. In fact, guess what both of my kids think now? "Weird, I can't even imagine them together now...they were just not right for each other...they weren't connected".
So all the time I was making sure we had happy family group memories, was now a "fake" time in their minds, because they can see now and look back and realize it was "fake". In my self-justification mode, I never thought of this type of outcome. It felt REAL to me...because I really did love them all and loved my family...but I have to admit and face, the romantic relationship with my husband was NEVER there and it was obvious to our children. My kids both knew we "loved each other but weren't in love with each other", without either of us ever admitting that to them or to each other.
What I should have done was leave much, much earlier, gone straight into couples counseling, have some very direct discussions about our lives, our love life, and our future goals, and decide when we, our children and our marriage were all very young whether should pursue our own marriage or not.
I love thinking that given the chance when very young (and assuming that we could have been fully honest with ourselves and each other), we may have been able to switch on our romantic relationship and lived happily ever after. I wish so much I would have done just that. But the truth is, I was a coward. I was too afraid to face any reality other than the one I felt comfortable with and entitled to. I refused to face the truth of my situation dead on.
ssmguy...this isn't a lecture. It is a life lesson to you from someone who has already traveled the wrong path. I'm not saying you should ask your wife for a divorce. I'm saying you should face the truth and ask her to face it with you. "Honey, I am no longer willing to get my 'needs' met outside the marriage. I want either a fully honest marriage with you, or I want it with someone else". This is the only way to get out of the "entitled" yet very disappointing life you are currently leading. Don't try to tell me that the love of your "unbroken" family is a good enough reason to stay, because your family DOESN'T EXIST the way you think it does...just as mine didn't either.
You asked me a few posts back how old I am. I am 42 going on 142. I feel like I've been through about 20 lives in this one life (there is likely a lot to my story which you don't know). But to respond to your point about the age, I will get back to you when I turn 50 and let you know if I am still jumping my husband's bones as often as he will let me. :0)
I wanted to add that when the sex in my marriage died out, it left an awful hole in my life. It made me feel half-dead. Joining with my lover made me feel alive again. That power of a woman's love to rejuvenate life was what I was missing.
Well, I can certainly agree with that in every respect!
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I finally realized that I would only find this with one true love. If this was not to be with my wife, then I would find another woman who would love me as much as I loved her.
You make it sound so simple. But for my priorities, it is not that simple. I have in-laws who are essentially "friends and family for life", kids, and shared experiences going all the way back to college. My wife knew my grandparents, and I hers. A new woman can't be a replacement to all of that. She would be an addition to a life that would necessarily include my ex-wife in many ways.
Likewise, I would expect a new woman near my age to have the same history and family network and obligations.
It's obvious to me now why the so-called European-style mistress works for some people, especially when both partners have deep ties to family and in-laws that they don't want to change. Yes, I certainly know it's more than just the sex. But at times, and thinking only on the surface, it seems utterly absurd to completely change virtually everything -- house, family, in-laws, financial obligations, etc. -- just so you can have sex for a few hours a week in a manner which other people would "approve of", as if it were any of their business in the first place.
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The only way I could have had this with another woman would have been to let go of my wife first.
Again, you make it sound so simple and easy. Let go? For that matter, I gently suggested to my wife that perhaps we should consider divorce. Is it what she wanted? Would she think it would be the best? If for no other reason, I said it to get her thinking about it. Her emphatic answer was no. She wants to stay with me, but doesn't want sex. Well, so far I've granted her wish, at least in those respects.
Your post to Cinco: "I have in-laws who are essentially "friends and family for life", kids, and shared experiences going all the way back to college. My wife knew my grandparents, and I hers. A new woman can't be a replacement to all of that. She would be an addition to a life that would necessarily include my ex-wife in many ways."
My response: Big freaking deal. My ex-husband's first wife before me (and remember, we're divorced now) is STILL in my life, because when my ex and I got married, I married his entire past...including his ex-wife being in my life even after I divorced him. And the problem is....? What? So your wife, possibly your future ex-wife, would have to stay in your life after divorce? Trust me, this WILL happen, zero need for you to worry about it in the least...and is only another excuse you are making that has nothing to do with the truth of your life.
Your post: Likewise, I would expect a new woman near my age to have the same history and family network and obligations.
My response: So? And this is relevant because...? You don't think you could love more people in your life? I have news for you, you can.
Your post: It's obvious to me now why the so-called European-style mistress works for some people, especially when both partners have deep ties to family and in-laws that they don't want to change.
My response: You are still trying to "one-up" us "lowly Americans" with your nonsense. Again, this is simply your justification and has no basis in fact. Remember...I WAS YOU, so I know what justification is, my dear ssmguy.
Your post: But at times, and thinking only on the surface, it seems utterly absurd to completely change virtually everything -- house, family, in-laws, financial obligations, etc. -- just so you can have sex for a few hours a week in a manner which other people would "approve of", as if it were any of their business in the first place.
Copied from my post above yours to Cinco: And oh well, it didn't matter all that much did it? I was still coming home every night, taking care of my family, being there for them, loving them, did it really matter if I just got a quick sexual thrill now and then from other than my husband? It was simply a thrill, what was the big damn deal? Certainly my taking care of my entire family was showing my true colors and the thrill was just a side thing that I "needed" because my husband didn't give me what I "needed". I "needed" it you see, therefore because it was a "need" of mine I was entitled to get that "need" met.
My response to your post and my post: Kinda scary isn't it? We were actually typing this at the same time. No matter what you try to tell yourself, the truth is going to kick you in the butt, my dear. Trust me on that. You are simply feeling entitled and justified, there is no other reason for your behavior, no matter how you want to believe there is. You just don't want to face the truth, so you have to justify. Been there, done that....thanking my stars that I finally have my head on straight now, but boy what a price I paid.
Your post: Let go? For that matter, I gently suggested to my wife that perhaps we should consider divorce. Is it what she wanted? Would she think it would be the best? If for no other reason, I said it to get her thinking about it. Her emphatic answer was no.
My response: Newsflash and part of my story you didn't know...when I had "gently" asked my husband if he wanted a divorce, he ALSO said "no". Wow!!! What an amazing coincidence? Right? Um...no. This is what everyone says when asked if they want a divorce, dear. When I finally did leave him, he realized he didn't want me back within a month. And yet, he did tell me when I "gently" asked him that he didn't want divorce.....you don't think its at all possible that your wife, just like you, just doesn't want to face reality, but that she would be happier with a new life if she really DID face the whole reality? Maybe? Oh right...not in your case...your case is hopeless and unlike any one else's. (sarcasm)
Your post: She wants to stay with me, but doesn't want sex. Well, so far I've granted her wish, at least in those respects.
(I just had to ad the bold in the above...so I could laugh out loud about it, literally)....bwah ha ha ha hhahah hahahaaaa....oh, that's a good one.
My response: This is just so classic justification and self-aggrandizing. I've done it too, so I would know. You've "granted her wish", huh? Really? She is such a lucky gal. You've made her entire life a sham and a lie, and this was her granted wish. Your own life is a sham too, and yet...this was your wife's wish for you, too. Your children will one day realize their young family life was a sham...and yet, this is your WIFE's fault, as you are only "granting her wish".
ssmguy....I hope you take the 2x4 as if it is made from foam rubber and not hardwood...but please please take it, nonetheless. Please.
Again, SSM, this isn't a debate. There are no points and you can't win or lose. All Walking was trying to point out is that you're so busy coming up with reasons why there's nothing you can do about the completely inevitable sexless nature of your mature that you haven't left yourself any room to look for things you could do about it.
She's right about that, but I hold out hope for you, because you're still here venting. Sooner or later I think the odds are good that you will decide you'd rather try and fail than accept your lot meekly. When you do that, you might very well shock yourself by not failing. But you won't shock us; from the outside looking in, we can see that you have plenty of options. There are no guarantees, but you have a fighting chance when you're ready to take it.
