I've been reading along here for a few months and can't express strongly enough how inspired by some of the stories here.
Dance Queen - reading your posts has clarified for me a journey that I've been on for several years and I kind of knew what was happening � but not quite. Your experiences have enabled me to put mine in perspective and understand so much more about what's been going on for me.
OK - in short
I left my marriage about 4 years ago. I didn't really realised until I started reading here that it was a SSM. We had sex. Maybe once a week � but it was mechanical and quick. There was very little intimacy. During the last couple of years of our marriage, foreplay would consist of my xH rolling over on Sunday morning and suggesting I read a chapter of erotic literature (to myself) to get in the mood � 5 minutes of perfunctory sex � then on the road for the day.
I�d had partners before my xH and knew it could be better � and it was reasonably passionate in the beginning to be fair � but I put up with it because � well for all the old reasons � I really cared about him, we were great friends, we had a lot of fun together, our investments were all interwoven, our families connected, I raised his 2 sons with him. He is older than me, so I wondered if his interest in sex was waning because of his age (and I was in my early 30s at the time � so was really just coming into my own sexually and emotionally - he had just turned 50). At one stage I tried to talk to him about it � but he shut down. It was horrible.
I hung in there for quite a while � but it was killing me. I had a couple of one-night stands outside of the marriage and an affair that lasted for a few months. I justified those experiences on the basis that he wouldn�t even notice (he actually did notice, and asked me about it at one stage, but I denied it). To this day I�ve never told him.
I�m attractive and successful and on paper figured I had all the attributes required in a wife � but not to my husband. My self esteem was at rock bottom and (what I now understand was) our lack of intimacy seemed to be affecting every part of my life. I wish I�d had the skills I�ve learned since then. I could have done so much more to save my marriage � but I just didn�t have these resources. I also wonder if he would have been motivated to work on it with me. I suspect I knew intuitively that he wouldn�t.
Leaving was the hardest thing I�ve ever done � it�s taken a long time to recover. I remember when I told my mother I was leaving him she told me �go home, cook dinner, and live with it. Good women have hard lives and marriage is for keeps� No one gets divorced in my family � my family were ashamed. I guess I was a bit ashamed too.
He shacked up with a woman very quickly after I left and the boys lived with me for another year before we spit assets etc. He said he had to move into a new relationship because �he couldn�t live alone�. That stung. Made me wonder if he�d only been married to me because �he couldn�t live alone�.
But I guess the real reason I�m writing here is because now that I�m on the road to recovery � and I�ve read here what�s possible in terms of real emotional intimacy between two people, I�m just wondering what took me so long?? Ya know? Why didn�t I understand this before?
Since I left my marriage, I�ve had 2 monogamous relationships (of about a year each) and the sex was great, but I haven�t connected intimately. Part of that may be just wanting to play around for a while � part of it, I suspect is that I chose those men-boys (they were both several years younger than me) precisely because I�m avoiding that intimacy in some way??? I don�t really know why I do that.
Now, I�m having a gorgeous friendship with a man who I connect with emotionally. Perhaps more intimately than any friendship I�ve made since those girl-crushes you get when you�re a teenager (you know that sort of friendship with a girlfriend where you talk all day then talk all night on the phone and never run out of stuff to say)?
We�re both on unaccompanied postings in the Foreign Service living at opposite ends of the country we�re posted to � and he�s married. He rarely talks about his wife and I feel very uncomfortable that we both seem to be seeking emotional intimacy (it�s a little bit flirtatious, but not sexual) from each other (in a way I�d really hate if I was his wife) � but I�m letting it continue � and I know that�s unhealthy. I know it�s not appropriate to be having such a gorgeous friendship with a man who is married. I know I should have clearer boundaries for this man � not take his several calls a day � but here I am.
I justify it that he must have problems in his marriage if he�s living away from his family (it�s a weird job for a family man). He mustn�t be happy if he�s so keen to seek me out. I even tried telling myself yesterday that his personal life is none of my business and I�m not doing anything wrong � his marriage is not my responsibility? Right? Yeah � I know it�s not right. I also know from reading here how vulnerable some men can be if they�re not getting their needs met at home � and clearly I�m vulnerable too. It�s not healthy � I get that.
Apart from all that � I have done a lot of �work-on-myself�. I�m happy now. I enjoy my own company. My career is going gang-busters. My family have accepted my decisions and I have amazing friends and colleagues. My step-children remain an important part of my life. My xhusbands family and I still have a good relationship. I love my life. I love my independence and being the only decider of my fate.
So I don�t know what I�m asking really. Just venting and wondering, and hoping that I�ll get healthy enough to attract a man like the new husband Dance Queen describes. But I do wonder � is that the norm? Certainly in my recent experience � it seems possible to have
1. material and social security provided in a marriage 2. great sex; or 3. emotional intimacy �
but putting them all together seems rather like a pipe dream �.
First of all, yes you have to stop with the married man. Really. Stop it. Altogether, and NOW. You are finally realizing that you need true intimacy, and you can't get that from him, even if he's unhappy, even if he's about to leave her, even if you two "click" so well.
I've been in your shoes, more than once actually. Especially at the point of just a sort of "sexual friendship" that keeps me hooked and thinking all the time. Most of my "affairs" were exactly what you are describing and most didn't actually include physical intimacy. It was really how it made my mind feel moreso than having actual physical contact that created the draw for me.
Like you, at some point I had to realize that for some reason, I was the one who was choosing situations that would guarantee me a lack of intimacy, even though the mental/sexual aspect was so alluring. Yet, I really lacked intimacy, not sex. Its hard to get this into your mind in a way that will cause you to stop seeking the wrong things, but you can do it if you stay focused.
For me, I was very lucky that when my husband met me and began actively pursuing me, he turned out to be the love of my life. He was/is much wiser than I am, and had already figured this stuff out for himself. He could really "see" me, and knew that his efforts to pursue me wouldn't be a waste of time. So I did a lot of personal work, but I never really had to "look" for a man to meet my highest expectations, because he found me first.
But...lets say I hadn't met him but somehow I still had the knowledge of what I know now about what I really need in my life...how would I go about finding the man of my dreams?
I would have just continued to put myself out there in arenas where I felt I could meet appropriate men who want the same thing as I do, and I know (now) that I would have eventually found "him". See, one of the things my husband had learned, is that the only way to get what you really want is to AVOID what you don't want and to actively run the other direction when it comes toward you. Through many talks with him, I know that there came a time in his life where he realized that sex is easy, sex partners are plentiful, but that sex partners are rarely full-on intimacy partners. He had had enough sex in his life at that point, and deliberately decided to only pursue what looked to him like a good overall match in personality, life style, income levels, maturity, AND sexual needs. Women throw themselves at him, so it was sort of hard at first. But he had to AVOID any woman who only seemed to fit a few of his wish-list items. That meant he ended up single for several years before he met me...by the time he met me, he knew what he was looking for, knew he hadn't seen it in anyone up to that point, and knew he wasn't going to settle for less than all he was looking for.
So from this, I have learned a great lessson as well. That if I was in your shoes, I would have to actively AVOID all men who were not EVERYTHING I was looking for.
And even then, when you find one and start dating, it will take a year or so before you know for sure if they fit the bill or not.
But the first step dear, is getting rid of the married man. He will only distract you from finding what you are really looking for...
Even if you have to wait for a few years to find the right man, it will be worth it as long as you do NOT settle for less than all you want.
I hope this helps at all, and don't feel I'm scolding you, because as I said, I've done things I'm not proud of and I wish I could have a do-over for all of it...and yet at the same time, I know how easy it is to "fall" for someone on that level when you are intimacy starved so no judgement from me! :0)
LOL. I don't feel scolded. I hoped of course you'd say "oh what harm can it do?" but I know I have to stop it. I hate having to be the grown up.
I'm actually finding it harder to finish "it" (whatever "it" is) with him than I did finishing the sexual relaitonships. Your point about being starved of intimacy is well made. I'm scared of giving it up - because that space will be empty again - and I'll be in a renewed state of intimacy (and sexual!) anorexia!!
Your point about sex partners being a dime a dozen is well made too. It's easy to get a partner to bonk ... not so easy to trust yourself enough to form an emotional attachment - and I guess that's why I opend myself up to marriedman in the first place - he was safe.
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See, one of the things my husband had learned, is that the only way to get what you really want is to AVOID what you don't want and to actively run the other direction when it comes toward you
REally sound advice ... thanks.
OK ... . "Operation Detach-From-Married-Man" now in effect.
First of all - I'm totally with Dance Queen. Don't waste any of your energy on any more unavailable men. That's dumb and repeating a pattern you've identified and decided you don't want a part of.
It's not good enough to make choices in life just because they "feel good". It's not good enough to choose relationships on the basis that they tick one box (intimacy) but fail on all the other tests (availability, appropriateness etc). It�s really not good enough if you�ve identified it�s less than optimal � and you do it anyway. What�s that say about how much you value yourself sister?
A big part of growing up is learning to 'live consciously' (thanks Captain). Making decisions for ourselves based on all the information available to us and balancing the information against our values, goals and aspirations.
It�s OK to be alone too. You don�t need to have a man in your life all the time.
Make a fabulous life for yourself. Value your friends, your family, your career, hobbies, community services � all of those things. Invest in them � you might just find that while you�re busy living, a man worthy of you will notice � you don�t have to be out there hunting them �.
Good luck sister-girl � you�re on the path.
V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Make a fabulous life for yourself. Value your friends, your family, your career, hobbies, community services � all of those things. Invest in them � you might just find that while you�re busy living, a man worthy of you will notice
If you knew how many times I've said that to myself ... it's almost clich�. It's just not so easy, when you're lonely and starved of affection and intimacy.
I do this thing that means I'm attracted to whatever man pursues me - and I know that's not working for me � I�m not being discerning � but it�s like it�s better than nothing.
I�ve cooled it with marriedmanfriend � and of course that�s encouraged him to pursue me more. I love it. I love the pursuit. I love the attention. I love the idea of him.
I don�t feel as though I can say �Look, this is weird. You�re married and your spending all this time talking to me. Concentrate on your wife.� Because our �friendship� has been very intense, but very platonic. There has been no overt mention of future intimacy. There has been no overt sexualisation. It�s all very covert. (and that in itself is sexy as hell) � and the bottom line is � spending less time talking to him has left a hole in my life.
I�m doing all the things one is supposed to do. Filling up my life with interesting activities, girlfriends, work, gym (I ran 20km this morning before the monsoon came through).
When does the �make a fabulous life for yourself� become real .. and not something I�m just trying to do to fill in time between one man and another????
I hate that I�m such an emotional cripple. Why can�t I have it together? I look at my family and other friends and they seem to be able to pull it off. What�s wrong with me?
I�ve got a girlfriend who says everyone has about 3 specialities. She says mine are career, lyrics and herbs and spices. When I talk about relationships � she laughs and shakes her head and says �Oh Sunshine � don�t worry about that, relationships aren�t one of your specialities� well, I know that � but why not? and why does it feel so hopeless when it�s pointed out to me???
"I love it. I love the pursuit. I love the attention."
Here is what you need to focus on and realize its worth...yes, we women LOVE to be pursued. You need to find an appropriate man to pursue you, and the right one will literally pursue you day after day forever and ever. And that way you'll feel that rush of love and chemicals day after day, forever and ever!
The rush of chemicals is, of course, there even with mr. unavailable...but that doesn't mean its good for you or that you should partake in it. Chemicals that make you high, and yes sex and love are included in that, should be looked at like very dangerous drugs and should only be taken under controlled circumstances among the right company. Obviously that means - you don't let a married man fill you with dangerous love chemicals, the same way you should never snort some cocaine with some dude in a bar restroom...get it?
"I don�t feel as though I can say �Look, this is weird. You�re married and your spending all this time talking to me. Concentrate on your wife.� Because our �friendship� has been very intense, but very platonic. There has been no overt mention of future intimacy. There has been no overt sexualisation. It�s all very covert. (and that in itself is sexy as hell) � and the bottom line is � spending less time talking to him has left a hole in my life."
This is why its called an emotional affair, not a physical affair. And this is also why people who are in emotional affairs don't realize they are actually in an affair, just because no direct sex has happened. But emotional affairs kill marriages just as often as physical affairs.
You don't have to tell him "leave me alone and focus on your wife". You are correct in that, no you don't need to do that. All you have to do is truly back off and after awhile, he will get the hint and leave you alone.
Please - just really back away for real, and we'll talk you through it and help you find some better outlet, ok? Stop with the excuses and do what your heart knows is right. :0)
"I hate that I�m such an emotional cripple. Why can�t I have it together? I look at my family and other friends and they seem to be able to pull it off. What�s wrong with me?"
Ok, I don't know you well enough to know "what's wrong with you"... I can offer this suggestion.
Focus on LOVE. Don't focus on just filling up your life. Love is the only thing that will really pull it all together for you. Do you pray or meditate? If you do, pray for love, meditate on love.
I know that I talk on this board mostly about sex and sexless marriages, but the main focus of my life is actually LOVE. I was blessed all my life with a strong sense of love...love for myself, for my family, and truly feeling loved by a higher power. When I delve deep into love, it brings a well of emotion within me and can easily bring me to (joyous) tears. This love is what has directed me to find the man of my dreams. Nothing less than total full on love was good enough for me. Come to find out, that's what the man of my dreams made as his goal, too.
Love can seek itself, it knows itself. If you make love your goal, rather than "having it all together" or "having a great sex life", the rest will come along as side benefits.
Love can seek itself, it knows itself. If you make love your goal, rather than "having it all together" or "having a great sex life", the rest will come along as side benefits.
This is a groovy mind switch. I've been thinking about it a lot. Makes a great deal of sense to me.
So, with that in mind, I still have to confess to not having made the smartest decisions over the past week or so.
I did back right off from Mr Unavailable, the pursuit increased, and he pushed a discussion about what was going on with me. I did end up saying something to the effect that I was uncomfortable about having this great friendship with him when he was married. I said if I was his wife I wouldn�t like it.
He feigned ignorance (what�s with men?) � �we�re not doing anything wrong, we�re great friends � and anyway, I�m not married like you seem to think I�m married, but I don�t want to talk to you about it over the phone.� (I�m thinking if you tell me she doesn�t understand you or it�s a sex starved marriage I�m going to barf) � (and of course then I�m embarrassed that I may have overstated things and he might think I�m reading too much into things etc etc � shaking my head at myself).
So we agree that we�ll meet in the Capital in a couple of weeks when we both need to be there for a week-long meeting. He gets all carried away making reservations to v. gorgeous restaurant (which you need do need to make reservations for weeks in advance) and tells me everything will be clear to me then.
I re-engaged in flirty conversation and instant messaging (I know, I know) for a few days � until he went� home on a reunion visit earlier this week.
(OK -I know this is an excuse � but I put my toe back in the pool because he reassured me and because I don�t want to think he�s such a player, I have fantasised that maybe he is the bloke who might tick the boxes in so far as emotional connection � I know I can get the physical stuff right in a relationship, but the emotional connection has always been a problem for me, and with him it seemed like it might work � and he�s hot)
It will be no surprise to anyone that on arrival �home� his instant messaging is �on-the-blink� and the phone calls are just as regular, but at very different times of the day � like clearly after wife has gone to work and before she gets home. He would say after his son goes to school and before dinner �. But �.
He called me yesterday and I was in the middle of managing a potential international incident. It was serious and he knew it was serious. I told him I�d be held up for a couple of hours and said I�d call him back. I called back at what would have been about 7pm his time, and of course phone was turned off. He sent me an e-mail at 10pm last night, saying he was tired and asking me to call him today � anytime � (he must know I�m onto him) �so I stupidly did call him this morning � and it was awkward and weird and he�s really playing up the fact that he�s with his son and I can hear son in the background � working hard to demonstrate this isn�t dodgy, he can speak to me whenever, whatever � yeah sure
I haven�t asked him where he stays when he goes home � but despite what he reckons about �not being married like (I) think he is� it would appear pretty clear that he�s staying at the family home.
I feel really dirty. and really stupid.
So, sincerely admitting that I haven�t been living up to my highest ethical values, and I haven�t been taking your advice � I�m back on the wagon. I�m dumping his sorry ar$e and focussing on love.
Hold my hand DanceQueen � I�m sincere that I want to get this right once and for all.
Hello little miss...I was just wondering about you earlier today. I'm up late tonight so I decided to get on-line and here's your update!
OK I'll hold your hand...
First off, remember that I truly do understand the complete intoxication of that rush of feelings that comes with being pursued. I understand fantasizing that somehow, I am "the one" for some man (there were many fantasies of this sort in my life) and that somehow, I am just so dang special that some man who is pursuing me will make me his own...will make me feel as special as I know I am...will somehow prove to me and the world that I am worthy of all the love I deserve...
Only I kept forgetting that if the man I was fantasizing about was actually not available, that it doesn't matter how special I am, it doesn't matter if he thinks he "loves" me, it doesn't matter if he is pursuing me...the fact of the matter was, it just wasn't ever going to happen in that beautiful, mature, organic way its supposed to. And that's the ONLY way it can happen and really mean anything, or really last.
This Mr. Unavailable man is smitten with you, yes, that's true. But who cares? It really doesn't mean anything.
I know you're coming along to learn this, but just get it into your head right now straight up - - IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING.
Of course you want love and passion and all the other bells and whistles, but its also got to mean something to you AND to him.
What do you mean to him, to Mr. Unavailable?
You mean a distraction from whatever his marital issues are. You being in his life will keep him from facing those issues. I've been on both sides of that drama so many times and...well, it just doesn't go anywhere. Well, it does go somewhere...it goes straight to hell, and very quickly. And eventually you both end up back in the same place, only much time has been wasted.
I would love to recommend a book to you, its called Mars and Venus on a Date.
It is by John Gray, the writer of all the Mars Venus books. The reason I really liked that particular book and why I suggest it for you, is that it really explains how men think when it comes to dating and finding and picking a mate (or even just a date). It explains how at first, a man is simply attracted to you, and he will suddenly "feel" things for you and will come at you with pursuit. A woman will mistakenly think that his pursuit "means something". She will believe that it means he wants more, he wants a relationship with her. But usually (sorry guys, this is not a slam on you) it usually only means he wants to be physically intimate with you, and that's all. The man will suddenly be supplied by his natural male intuition with all the right words to say, and at the moment he says them, he actually believes that he means them. But then once he "catches" you (in varying degrees, sometimes by bedding you, sometimes by just dating you, sometimes by convincing you that he is right for you), he just as suddenly loses interest in you. Why? Because he was simply following his natural male urges to get physically closer to you but...if its not "right", truly "right" between you, then it will fade out as quickly as it started. Usually the woman is then left wondering WTF just happened. She thought he must have been very into her, in order to say all those things, in order to pursue her so hard. She then, because of his pursuit, fell for him, and when he snaps out of it and stops pursuing, she is left feeling like crap.
BUT...if a man is really right for you, his pursuit will not stop. In fact, it will go on forever and ever. A man who is right for you and truly loves you will be compelled to pursue you until the end of time. There is a bit of maintenance the woman has to do to keep his game of pursuit in play...but it will feel natural and she will naturally keep him coming after her...but only if its RIGHT.
By right I don't mean morally right, I don't mean socially right. I mean at the spiritual level, it will be right. Love will not be maintained if all isn't "right". It will quickly fade into sort of a "meh" feeling, for one or both of you. Love is only turned on by itself, and can only be given and received in the right atmosphere. You can only trick yourself for a short amount of time to feel love when things aren't right. Yes you can feel it, but it won't last, and it will actually cause you harm to feel love that isn't right.
The book goes into so many facets of the dating and pursuit side of love. It explains so many things about men that you will likely have light bulbs popping off over your head as you read it. And I recommend it to you because not only will you learn so much about men, you will also learn about yourself. You will learn why you feel compelled to start chasing a man when he stops pursuing you, and why you absolutely should NOT do it, NOT EVER. It also explains why, if a man is really physically hot to you right off the bat, you should actually avoid that type of man. You should find a man who turns you on mentally first. There are reasons for this, its not just speculation. Its all in the book, and if you do get it and read it, it will give you something to focus on while you get Mr. Unavailable out of your system.
Another point here is that you really sound as if you need to value yourself a bit higher. You need to realize that you are going to be someone's jewel, and that man will provide the setting in which you can shine. And for that man, making you shine will be what makes HIM happy. Its not all about being treated like a goddess or put on a pedastal. Its about a natural give and take between the sexes which provides both with what makes them happy. But first...you have to know that you have this value within you for that right man, when ever you find him. He will literally move mountains to be with you. He will never stop his pursuit of you. And your happiness will be what he measures his own success by. Isn't that nice? Its not just a pipe dream, either. Its really how it happens, when things happen in the right order, at the right pace, and obviously, when both parties are actually available. :0)
I know you feel you are letting yourself down ethically, and on the surface, that is how it would appear. But its not really ethics, its your own love within you knowing you are never going to find what you are looking for where you are looking. Because first of all, you have to see that worth in yourself. How can a man see it if you don't? If you only think you are worthy of a bit of a married man's time when he can steal it from his family, then of course you aren't going to get the whole package you deserve.
It is not conceded to say "I am worthy of meeting the man of my dreams, who is going to make me happy for the rest of my life". You DESERVE this, and the love within you knows it, even if you don't know it yet. However, the love within you will NOT accept less than that, which is why it feels like an ethical dilemma to your mind. Intellectually, you can't "feel" what your love is trying to tell you. Your heart feels a pang of sadness at the possible loss of yet another possible love...but your heart also will not let you go too far down this rabbit hole, which is why your mind is now alerted "stop! This isn't right!" The mind and heart sometimes have confusion in communicating to one another (and then throw the physical needs of your body in there and its one big confusing mess), but just stick with us...we'll hold your hand.
There is also a Mars Venus message board. If you find it and sign up, there are lots of really great women over there who give great advice to others about how to really stay away from hopeless situations, and how to nurture and foster GOOD dating situations. The site is kinda yucky in some ways, such as there are lots of ads, and there is a pop up ad that lasts for 30 seconds that you have to endure if you want to keep reading, and that kinda annoys me. But it might be interesting for you to check out.
One more thing...isn't there any man who IS available who may be right under your nose, maybe someone you haven't even thought of, someone who may have a crush on you but you didn't really pay him much attention...at work or near your home or...anywhere? Just asking because women frequently will not notice a man like this when she is in the middle of some kind of unavailable flirt-fest. She will look right past him because she is focused on being pursued by the other thing going on in her life. Maybe you have overlooked someone who is actually really ready to pursue you, who is available and who is truly interested in you?
I justify it that he must have problems in his marriage if he�s living away from his family (it�s a weird job for a family man). He mustn�t be happy if he�s so keen to seek me out. I even tried telling myself yesterday that his personal life is none of my business and I�m not doing anything wrong � his marriage is not my responsibility? Right? Yeah � I know it�s not right. I also know from reading here how vulnerable some men can be if they�re not getting their needs met at home � and clearly I�m vulnerable too. It�s not healthy � I get that.
My advice is that you both need to be totally honest. That means you have to get him to be totally honest. And likewise you have to be totally honest with him.
As a formula, I agree with DQ, stay away from married men IF you really are looking for a full long-term relationship. But there are no guarantees. There are too many exceptions to the rules to rely on them alone, of course. A lot of single men are single for a reason. Some single men are still gettting it on with the ex-wives, or are playing the field and you're just another conquest, or are single simply because they cannot commit.
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So I don�t know what I�m asking really. Just venting and wondering, and hoping that I�ll get healthy enough to attract a man like the new husband Dance Queen describes. But I do wonder � is that the norm? Certainly in my recent experience � it seems possible to have
1. material and social security provided in a marriage 2. great sex; or 3. emotional intimacy �
but putting them all together seems rather like a pipe dream �.
Yes, it seems that way to me, given the situation I'm in. But I'm not sure you can short-cut yourself to the best relationship right away. People can give you advice to not have rebound relationships, etc. But I think some people actually need to go through real affairs and rebound relationships to fully mature to what you might call a "healthy" relationship. It always seems like when I hear the advice about avoiding affairs and rebound relationships, it's coming from people who went through those stages. You don't hear that advice from people who CLEANLY went from one marriage to another one, where everything was good. Maybe there just aren't a lot of people like that.
I think it really is true that you can't know what a good relationship is like unless you've had some bad ones. Or you won't know how to navigate or manage yourself in a bad relationship situation if you've only had a good relationship for a long time.
You will learn why you feel compelled to start chasing a man when he stops pursuing you, and why you absolutely should NOT do it, NOT EVER. It also explains why, if a man is really physically hot to you right off the bat, you should actually avoid that type of man.
Though there is wisdom in that, I would be nervous about making it an absolute. There are just too many different kinds of men and women out there. And for some people, it's not just a rare circumstance that's the exception, but these absolutes would exclude them from practically ever finding anyone. I've heard women describe men who were "diamonds in the rough" who are very shy, sensitive, and turned out to be perfect for them.
And as for the avoiding a man who is physically hot for you right away, maybe a reasonable general indicator. But again, I know of too many exceptions, like the couple who had sex the same evening they met. Well, guess what? They've been happily married 15 years. It was love at first sight, and the feeling never left them.
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BUT...if a man is really right for you, his pursuit will not stop. In fact, it will go on forever and ever. A man who is right for you and truly loves you will be compelled to pursue you until the end of time. There is a bit of maintenance the woman has to do to keep his game of pursuit in play...but it will feel natural and she will naturally keep him coming after her...but only if its RIGHT.
Again, good advice in general. But there are many exceptions. Some women may end up waiting a lifetime if they followed this advice without putting it in a context where they vary their approach and learn from real experience how they relate to all this.
Generally, I agree with DQ. It's just that I get nervous about seeing advice given as absolutes. One size doesn't fit all.
