Mandatory Don'ts when Divorce Busting

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Allen, would appreciate your advice on what one should do when you don't know and are finding it really hard to find out if the A has ended? So whether to go Bo-peep mode or go the Protection phase way with letter ?

When asked if the 6 week P/A was over, WH said to me first "it's over- we renounced the r'ship", then one month later, "It's not over, i still love her", then 2 weeks ago, "there is no relationship".

???

OW lives 10,000kms away from us today, so difficult to snoop/verify.

WH's mantra has also been "It's none of your buinesss: I won't tell you when my last contact with her was/what my plans are/It's MY intimacy".

I'm not Allen, but I'll give you my take on it, Piano. Your husband's quote would indicate to me that he's still cheating, or at least still in contact. Anyone who's not willing to be fulling transparent is either still in contact, or WANTS to be ABLE to leave that door open, in case things don't work out with you.

You need better intel. Using the cheating spouse themselves as your source of what's "true," either during an active affair or during the withdrawal phases just after, is like asking the burglar to lock the doors on the house.

Puppy

[Allen A]

Thanks pup, this feels much better, I like threads where you can actually help people... whew.. wide open spaces again.

Anyway...

You can look at this in stages :

1. Cheating
2. Re-commitment
3. Withdrawal
4. Recovery

Until the withdrawal phase is done and into recovery you need intel

But during the Cheating phase it won't be given, you have to take it if you want intel. MWD reccomends using spyware on a PC, but there are a variety of methods of finding out what's going on.

During Re-commitment an end has presumably been made to the affair.. this re-commitment should NOT be made without a commitment to full-disclosure and full transparency of all communications and daily activities

This transparency agreement is in place well into recovery.

If your spouse refuses to offer transparency, the affair is NOT over.

It does NOT mean they ARE communicating, but it DOES mean at the VERY LEAST that withdrawal is not complete.

If there is a need to HIDE, there is a need to INDULGE in fantasy further, even if it is only in the imagination. This indulgence pushes the withdrawal schedule back further.

Comments like this make it clear he's at LEAST still in withdrawal and hasn't made any commitments.

Mind you, during withdrawal you will get a LOT of resistance..

You will NOT get their cooperation. I don't recommend taking someone back until they are showing a willingness to be honest.

So, you really have to protect yourself and him and do what you can to work around him for the intel... But behaviourally he's still in withdrawal if there is no contact...

I have certainly been here myself having heard its over more than half a dozen times, it reminds me of a joke often said about quitting smoking :

I can quit smoking, i have done it dozens of times

A claim to have quit is not reliable.

Ignore 50% of what they do and 100% of what they say.

Bo-peep in my opinion is a complex beast.. but my short version is for you to apply Bo-Peep ELSEWHERE to OTHERs and leave your H OUT of that kinder you. SHOW him what a person you CAN and are WILLING to be when an affair is over. I did this myself and it did help a lot.

If you use a warm soft loving voice on the phone within his earshot and once you hang up and he approaches you and your tone changes drastically, he will still SEE what a person you are and he will WANT that himself... hold onto it and dont' share that until you are SURE the affair is done.

That's my advice on the matter at least.

Example : Make a wonderful dinner and invite three of your friends over.. your H can smell it but he's not invited.

You have fun, you laugh, you even mention the affair and how hard it is on you... all within his earshot.

This is you Showing Kindness so he can see it is there, but you don't share it with HIM until he's past his withdrawal.

[Piano]

Pup and Allen,

I believe WH to be in withdrawal stage. It's 2 and a half months since the PA ended, but he told me he'd been infatuated with her for months before it got physical - I worked it out to have started (for him) from about May 09...that's 10 months. Yikes....

He waited till I left Europe where we were living to act on his impulses. Now we are both back on other side of the world.

I agree Allen, that it doesn't mean they are communicating. But I think after dropping the bomb day 3 of arrival in the country and separating immediately was so he could indeed hide away and indulge in the fantasy further, even if it is "only in the imagination" and yes i think this is why he has he has been so resistant to me - not wanting counseling, cutting and running... this, after 15 yrs of marriage and a baby on the way!

I don't think I made it clear though....

He and I have NO life together that the moment.

My WH, who lives with friends now and who I see/hear from rarely, has told me & everyone we are separated, has mentioned D, and has moved on with his life. He just wishes I would.

Can't go DARK cos baby # 1 due in 2 months. So going DIM.

Funny your comment about smoking Allen.. my WH was always a closet smoker and used to lie to me about quitting, then I'd find the packets... !

I see only 2 things left that I can do:

GAL and do 180s and hope he notices from a distance --- but more importantly, do it for me

&

Ask common friends of OW if they know if it's still going on.
(I have no access to his computer or phones to get intel - he doesn't live with me).

I could ask the friend he is currenlty staying with if he knows of contact with OW or if it has started up again....but he too might think it is none of my business since WH has said we're OVER. Doesn't that means WH is FREE to do what he LIKES?

[mindfull]

Allen -

Pardon the question, as I'm sure you have been asked it a million times, but do you not have a thread w/your sitch on it anywhere???