I'm looking for some good advice. I'm new here, so please pardon my misuse of acronyms.
Here's my story: I've been with my H for almost 3 years (I'm 28, he's 30, no kids, no plans) and we have never had what I consider a good sex life. It has been about once/month since we met. Even in the beginning it wasn't very frequent. Aside from frequency, I can probably count on one hand the times he initiated or seemed really into it. In the beginning, it really freaked me out. I would cry in secret, or try to do all sorts of things to get him interested (i.e. lingerie, candles, adult movies, etc). After a while, istarted discussing it with him, and every time he would say "I've just never been a sexual person" or "I'm really tired/stressed/overworked lately" or "it's just sex, why is it so important to you?" and "I'll try harder, things will get better, I promise."
And, of course, I'm feeling all those nasty, ugly, fat, boring, alone, rejected, angry, resentful feelings every time I fail to get his attention. We have had many discussions about it, from respectful, loving discussions to all-out screaming matches (mostly me screaming).
We are the best of friends, and it seems like everything else in the relationship is wonderful. He is cuddly and affectionate, complimentary, we share household tasks as well as financial responsibility with no "keeping score." We enjoy the same activities and have a lot of fun together. G-rated fun.
I have asked him if he pleasures himself very often and he says no. I believe him because he has no porn collection (wives always know...) nor has he had much of an interest in it online. And we have both suggested that maybe he should try to do it more, to get himself physically in more of a rhythm, so to speak, but I'm pretty sure he has never followed through. UNTIL recently, I have found he has been watching adult movies on our computer a lot more frequently in the last month or so. But in the last month, there has been no change in his actions toward me. It still seems like we are just cuddle buddies.
He doesn't know that I know what he's been looking at online. I don't want to bring it up and make him uncomfortable, I just noticed the activity in my web browser history.
I have read SSM and part of SSW and I'm in that first phase of "heal yourself, don't initiate, get a life, be patient" and I really feel positive about it. Losing my winter weight and re-exploring my outdoor hobbies.
Here's where I need advice: First, I know it's probably not a good idea to seek the information I found because it just drives me more crazy. I feel like one of these days I'll be upset and just blurt out "I know you have urges, I know what you do, but why not with me?" and I know this is a VERY BAD IDEA. I just can't help but look at the history bar when I get online. It's almost an obsession. I even try to find out what time of day, to get some kind of weird insight into his sexual self. How do I ignore this for my own sanity?
Second, is the increasing frequency of his solo activities a good sign that he's making an effort, or should I be concerned that he separates sex from me in his mind?
I'd also like some advice about how to get through this first phase patiently and successfully. I've tried this before, only to break down and give him the old "why don't you want me" talk after about a month or so, putting me right back at square one. This, I think, would be the most important advice, because I'm anxious, bored and antsy.
...First, I know it's probably not a good idea to seek the information I found because it just drives me more crazy. I feel like one of these days I'll be upset and just blurt out "I know you have urges, I know what you do, but why not with me?" and I know this is a VERY BAD IDEA. I just can't help but look at the history bar when I get online. It's almost an obsession. I even try to find out what time of day, to get some kind of weird insight into his sexual self. How do I ignore this for my own sanity?
Second, is the increasing frequency of his solo activities a good sign that he's making an effort, or should I be concerned that he separates sex from me in his mind?
I'd also like some advice about how to get through this first phase patiently and successfully. I've tried this before, only to break down and give him the old "why don't you want me" talk after about a month or so, putting me right back at square one. This, I think, would be the most important advice, because I'm anxious, bored and antsy.
Congratulations for taking control of your life and doing what you think you need to help build your marriage. Also great that you have held off on having kids.
Part of getting a life is focusing on "you." You already completely understand that you should not be spying on your husband. The answer to your first question is....listen to yourself and stop spying.
If I were you, I would give up on daily or even weekly spying on what your husband is watching as it is not going to bring you any happiness and just as you already know give you one more thing to worry about.
I would however, take a close look at some of the websites to see if there is something that he really desires that you might be able to offer him. For example, if the websites were lets say devoted to outdoor sex, or focused on women in stocking, or some other theme, then this might indicate a sexual fantasy that you husband would secretly like to try and might offer you a way of connecting with him at some point in the future. If nothing else, if you ever have a discussion where you ask him about his fantasies and you tell him about yours, you might have a better idea of questions to ask.
As to your second question, internet porn is out there and most men are exposed to it to one degree or another. You should be concerned if it causes your husband to engage in "risky behavior" or if he develops an addiction to it. That is a slippery slope as to where has he crossed the line. I am not a woman, but my thought would be if he masturbates to internet porn on a regular basis, that is where I would think things are getting out of control. If he just watches it to get arroused and it is not interferring with the amount of sleep he is getting (i.e. he isn't staying up watching it until 2 AM), I would not be overly concerned. I would also listen to others on this as I am just guessing and offering my personal opinions.
And now to the question that caused me to want to respond. How do you really make GAL a life-change and not a temporary activity? I think that is a great question.
For me, I have fought weight and fitness issues off an on for 40 years. I hope that my recent GAL to loose weight and get fit is a permanent lifestyle change.
I have some real motivation besides my relationship with my wife having deteriorated to a really low point. I was diagnosed with mild type 2 diabetes and I was clearly by the height weight charts obesse last August. I have in my youth had an extremely active outdoor lifestyle, climbing mountains, backpakcing, hunting, hiking, skiing, etc.
I decided that by January 2011, I was going to be at a normal weight (i.e. not obeese, not overweight, but normal), that I was going to have the sex and touching that I needed to be happy, and that I was going to be medically healthy.
So far I have lost over 30 pounds and am no longer obesse, but "overweight." My blood glucose levels have fallen dramatically into what the American Diabetes Association defines as "tight blood glucose control" levels without any medication. I work out and run several miles a week, and am signed up for competitive 5 mile and half marathon runs that I am training for. I have started snow skiing again this winter and really enjoyed it, even if my wife hasn't gone with me.
I am planning on doing some mountain climbing this summer and I will definately be going on some deep woods day hikes, if not overnight hikes this summer.
I have a written set of goals for myself in terms of quarterly weight loss, demonstrations of fitness (I have time goals for finishing the races I have signed up for), and goals in regards to sex and touching. Earlier this year when I was not getting the touching I needed from my wife, I started getting a weekly massage (not the kind with a happy ending, but deep tissue massage from a licensed therapist). I had never done that before and it showed my wife that I have clear options to her.
What I have found that has helped me a lot is both "visualization" and "affirmations." At the gym where I work out, I use my MP3 player that I have loaded a number of audio book self-help CD's onto it. Some of them are self-hypnosis or subliminal weight loss messages, some are focused on affirmations for encouraging me to exercise and love exercising, some are focused on body self-image (i.e. I love my body and am proud of my body), some are relationship based. This means that 3 to 4 days a week I might get anywhere from say 40 to 50 minutes of MP3 listening in to help keep me motivated on different aspects of what I am trying to achieve.
Another thing that has helped is that my wife and I have been drawn together by some of my GAL activities. For example, she has been shocked at how much better I look and the complements about me she has recieved from her friends. She has also realized that if I leave her, other women would probably find me attractive and said so. She and I have started to try to each weekend (depending on weather and schedules) go for a nice 3 to 5 mile walk. We are now both signed up for a 5-mile competitive run and even our adult children are going to run in that race (although they be doing the half marathon or 13 mile version). So walking, running and getting in shape have become something that is drawing my family together.
I am committed to being happy, sexually active with a woman that loves me, in shape, at a normal weight, and healthy by January 2011. My total weight loss plan from last August to where I want to be is a little less than one pound per week, so my goals are not unreasonable. I have tried to make sure that each goal is achievable.
I also keep two diaries. One is weight, blood glucose, exercise (weight lifted/reps, miles run, cal burned, time, etc.), what I have eaten, levels of stress, hours of sleep, and how hungry I am. The other is the things I have done to show affection to my wife and that she has shown me as signs of affection with an entry each morning and each evening.
Writing things down really makes you pay attension to what you eat, how much you exercise and if you have been treating your spouse with love and affection. I have been surprised with how many things my wife does that are signs of affection, but are just not the kind of vigorous touching and sex that I crave. It has helped me see that she is trying and I am quite pleased to say that with the help of a couple of board certified sex therapists I am getting the sex and vigorous touching that I need to feel loved.
One of the things that our joint sex therapist did for us was to help us creat a mental image of a loving, sexually active couple and tell us to visualize that and how that image will lead us to happiness and a closer realationship. She also gave my wife "affirmations" to help her with her body self-image. My wife's individual sex therapist and doctor has also helped her deal with body self image issues to the point that several of her inhibitions have disappeared at least paritally. Both of the therapists made my wife understand that if she didn't want to change how she interacted with me, we were headed for divorce and they both independently make sure she understood that this mean if she wanted to be divorced or not divorced it might all come down to what she did or didn't do. That realization, plus seeing that I was changing and not going to stop really scared her into deciding she also could change.
I have talked to my wife about some things that we can do that will help bring us closer together and will be part of my GAL goals of getting fit, loosing weight and becoming healthy. My wife suggested to me that we find a diebetic cooking class and take it together. We have talked about taking County Western line dancing lessons. She has suggested maybe taking kayaking lessons together. The point is that GAL and being drawn together with your spouse can work out. Some things can really help your sexual relationship also. I have purchased some books/DVD's on couples massage, sensual massage, and reflexology and we have practiced some of them on each other. Taking a couples massage course could be a way to re-establish "touch" communication between you and your spouse.
I wish you luck and applaud your taking control of your life.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Thanks for the encouragement, YAH. Sometimes it's just good to get some positive affirmation that I'm on the right track.
And congrats to you on making a healthy lifestyle for yourself. That is not an easy feat, and to make it permanent is a daily struggle.
As for me, I have always been a borderline health nut. I don't have much weight to lose, but now I'm focussing on toning up (i'm skinny but flabby and not very strong). I have been riding my bike to work (45-minute ride) for the last month or so, and I live in Texas hill country. It has had more positive effects than just exercise, which I didn't expect. It gives me a lot more "me time" to think and meditate, and also gives me a better perspective of the fine, beautiful city I live in. Literally stopping to smell the roses
As far as my H's online activities, what he has been looking at seems pretty much regular ol sex. And the frequency has not been weird, about once a week, which is honestly about the same or less than I do. I have always asked him if he had any fantasies he wants to explore, because I'm very open-minded sexually, but he really can never think of anything and says he just likes regular "vanilla" sex. I believe him because I really have no reason not to.
We have a good "touch" communication, too, but it's just not sexual to him. We massage each other's feet almost daily, and though it makes me really hot, for him it just feels good.
Again, thanks for the encouragement. It really helps when I'm trying to refrain from pursuing him sexually and trying to be patient in the meantime. Perhaps after a while, when he does start to approach me (it will happen, I'm willing it with my mind :P) I can suggest learning some reflexology on each other.
Hi starvingartist. I'm glad you found this board. It can be really painful to be in a relationship where the partners have mismatched levels of sexual dsire. And there are so many misconceptions about it that's it good to hear what others have to say.
You say that you and your husband have never had very frequent sex, even before marriage, and that he has told you again and again that he has "just never been a sexual person." Is there some reason you aren't willing to take him at his word? Just as it’s perfectly natrual (and normal) to have a high or moderate level of sexual desire, it’s perfectly natural (and normal) to have a low level. We’re all different. Your husband may just be one of those people who doesn’t desire sex very much or get a lot out of it.
I don’t think the fact that your husband watches porn once a week is very significant. He may be watching to try to feel sexual rather than to express sexual feelings. Or it may be that he is masturbating once per week, and that he prefers that to a sexual encounter with you becuase it is very simple, quick, undemanding, and exactly the way he wants it.
Sometimes a lack of sexual desire is a symptom of something else, and sometimes it just is what it is. Based on what you’ve posted, it’s possible you and your husband are just mismatched sexually. It’s critical to separate your husband’s level of sexual desire from your own feelings about yourself. It probably has nothing to do with you, and taking it personally will only get in the way of working things out.
If you approach your sexual problems that way – as a simple mismatch – it may be that you can come up with a compromise that works for both of you. For example, maybe you and your husband could agree to have sex twice a month, or once a week, or something you both can live with and enjoy. But I would completely give up on the idea of somehow making him want it more. You can’t make another person have a higher level of sexual desire, and if you try, you usually just wind up making them feel uncomfortable, lacking, guilty, etc.
With respect, HDH, I'm not going to be happy in this relationship without intimacy. It's difficult to reach intimacy without having a sexual relationship. He knows nothing of my desires and fantasies or sexual tastes.
If we compromise and make an agreement as you suggest (we've done it before) he feels like he's doing chores and I feel like he's doing the bare minimum. It's mechanical and NOT intimate.
I know he has passion in him because I've seen it a few times before.
There has never been a day in my adult life when I would have told anyone, "I've just never been a sexual person". I've always known that I've been high-desire. Your H's other statements all seem consistent with a low-desire person.
Likewise, I have never used work, stress, or tiredness as an excuse to avoid sex. If anything, stress increases my need for sexual release even further. Again, your husbands statements are clearly a case of rationalizing one's lack of desire for sex.
As for his solo activities, I'd take any activity as a positive sign, especially given his statements about himself.
Don't take any of his behavior as a reflection on you in any way. That would be a big mistake.
With respect, HDH, I'm not going to be happy in this relationship without intimacy. It's difficult to reach intimacy without having a sexual relationship. He knows nothing of my desires and fantasies or sexual tastes.
If we compromise and make an agreement as you suggest (we've done it before) he feels like he's doing chores and I feel like he's doing the bare minimum. It's mechanical and NOT intimate.
I know exactly how you feel, because I am exactly like you. I could not be happy in a marriage that did not include a mutually enjoyable sex life. That is partly because there is a dimension of love and connection that I can only esxperience through sexual connection. I certainly wasn’t suggesting that you settle for less than that. If it’s the case that having sex with you as much as 2-4 times a month feels mechanical and chore-like for him, and feels like less than the “bare minimum” for you, then it may well be that you two are just not a good match. I hate to say that, because I know how painful it is to hear, but there’s no point wasting time trying to “fix” something that can’t be fixed. The real point of my post was to alert you to the possiblity that his lack of interest in sex may not be a “problem,” it may just be who he is. If that’s the way he’s always been, and he doesn’t feel “wrong” or “not himself” when he is that way, then he’s probably no more likely to develop a high interest in sex than you are to lose your interest in it. You two are just different.
Starvingartist...I second what HDhusband is saying. Your husband sounds like he is truly LD. There seems to be a difference between partners who did have desire at some point in their lives but have stopped desiring sex for some specific reason or set of reasons, versus partners who are and always have been LD with no change over time and circumstances. Those who are truly LD have the hardest time changing themselves, and sometimes their HD partners do have to make that hard choice: accept having a sexless marriage, or leave. Sometimes an LD person simply cannot change enough to make their HD spouse happy.
It is not clear from your posts if you have ever made the direct statement to your husband or not, "I will not accept a sexless marriage forever". Maybe you are not sure yourself of your feelings on that. But from all the stories I've read here, usually it takes that type of discussion with the LD spouse in order to cause any change. The promises over the years of "it will change" or "its because of stress" and then no lasting change ever occurs, is a clear sign to you by this point that your husband likely will not change on his own. However, he may try a bit harder if he understands that you are willing to leave eventually.
Have you ever thought about having that discussion?
I would like to just say about him watching porn, that while it is very likely harmless in general, in a situation like yours, it is actually harmful (IMO). The reason I say that is that if he has precious little sexual energy to begin with, and then is using that limited energy by himself, then will not be any left for him to use together with you. He is wasting it, so to speak. And further, while using it alone with himself, he is not learning more about his body, about your body, and about intimacy. Instead he is learning about a quick, detached release, and his body only knows about this type of release if he's not practicing together with you. If I were you, I would bring it up. I would get into a sexual mood myself, at a time when you know sex is an option, and then say "hey hon, I've noticed in the history you've been checking out some porn...care to share some of it with me?" Then hopefully get him to show you what he's been watching, watch some with him, encourage it to lead to sex...and hopefully later, talk about it some more. Invite him to share more or at least discuss things with you. Segue into a sex discussion in general.
It's the middle of the night and I'm balling my eyes out because another whole day went by of me strutting my 10-lbs-lighter behind around trying to get some kind of attention, and this time... "I have a headache."
I didn't try to come on to him, because I'm trying not to, just wanted to see if he would even look at me, being my sexy self.
And I get on here for some ENCOURAGEMENT (hence the topic) and all I get is "there's no point in trying to fix something that can't be fixed"
If that's the case, then what's the point of any of this "divorce busting" BS?
I know I can't change him into someone he's not, nor would I want to. I have stuck around this long because he is so dear to me.
It just bothers me how some of you are so quick to advise other people to just throw it all away.
We're not advising you to throw it away, hon, although I know it sounds like that. Instead, we are trying to tell you, based on 100's of stories like yours in this forum over the years, that it is very difficult for a LD spouse to change. We are trying to tell you that there is no magical formula to make him change, which is what you are really wanting to do. We are trying to get you to see that there is really nothing wrong with him, he is just different than you. And that you may have to accept a sexless marriage if you want to stay with him.
I'm sorry you feel discouraged. If there was a magical formula to make him change, we would share it with you immediately, as that is what everyone who comes here wants. If one was found, this board will be the first to know.
The encouragement you seek will be found in you taking good care of yourself, and not taking his rejection personally. I know that doesn't really help you, but that is truly all there is that you can do to help yourself.
