"conspiratorial behavior was to give you the opportunity to be honest and forthright with your "talk".”
 By conspiratorial, I meant you and W going around to all my friends and painting me to be some kind of “serial cheater”. I’m not. When I asked you what W had told you, I was expecting that the answer you would give would be honest. When I asked you if you condoned what she had done (hand-delivering 5 pages of correspondence to OWH at his place of work), you said you didn’t know. Did you? When I came to your house, I came to talk to you about my marriage and what I’ve been feeling in my heart for YEARS! If you had a question about OW and our relationship, believe it or not, all you had to do was ask.
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“I knew what you should have said. ”
 Oh really? And what was that? I guess MY thoughts and feelings are wrong, huh? I KNEW what I had come there to say and I said it, but it’s obvious you didn’t hear a word. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Maybe this will help. I feel NO DIFFERENT for W now than I have FOR YEARS!!!! Regardless of whether or not I had entered into another relationship, W and I would have wound up right where we are now eventually. I was there, but my heart had left the marriage long ago.
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“You used to wear it on your arm.”
 I still do. What would you like me to be honest about? I poured my heart out to you and you think I wasn’t being honest? I told you that day how I’ve been feeling FOR YEARS!! This isn’t something that’s just creeped up in the past few months ma, and I also thought I had thoroughly explained through the years, how I had been conditioned into becoming a “yes man” and LOST the ability to tell her how I felt about ANYTHING! So much of me had to be buried to accommodate that “lifestyle”, but hey, that’s what you do in a marriage, right? Not that I’m trying to compare myself to you and your life choices, and PLEASE don’t take this the wrong way, but didn’t you begin a relationship while married and exit from a “loveless marriage” to marry the man of your dreams? Please correct me if my perception is false. I’m not throwing stones here; I’m merely asking a question to get your perspective.
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“Even if that meant researching so W could fight to keep you. She loves you. She's part of your marriage.”
 You mean fight to keep me in a marriage where I felt dead inside? Is that what everyone wants? YAY! We saved the marriage! Who cares if H is miserable, W loves him anyway!
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“AND, yes, honest with OW.”
 Ok, I can totally see your point about my being honest with everyone concerning my relationship with OW. Yes, we kept our relationship hidden. We were actually actively discussing how we were going to come out and tell everyone, but the cat got out of the bag too soon. However, what assumptions are you making about my honesty with OW? I’m an open book to her! . We have no secrets! We discuss EVERYTHING! We communicate in a way I never knew was possible! There’s a LOT you should know about OW and I.
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“If what you said is true - that you've not been in love with W for many years - why not just tell her years ago?”
 Again, I thought I had explained that clearly. I had been conditioned early in our relationship to just go along with everything, to be complacent. W and I had a very good talk yesterday at lunch where she acknowledged this and apologized and understood that this was pOWHably too little, too late.
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“We never had a clue.”
 No? Hmmm…My closest friends have been talking amongst themselves about something they knew was bothering me deeply for the past THREE YEARS MA! THEY knew something was troubling me! And three years ago is only when I could no longer keep it hidden inside and it finally started to break the surface. They saw it!
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“We saw you growing together year after year.
” That’s what I wanted you and everyone else to see.
I will NEVER deny that she was a positive influence on the kids and I hope she will continue to be. They love her a lot. .
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“Although I think you're in a different station in your life today”
 How so? .
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“this is playing out like a rerun of your end of marriage experience with Patty.”
 Really? As I recall, everyone was in SUPPORT of my ending my marriage with Patty.
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“When you left here Monday night, you clearly expressed your hatred of the "table" being used for safe honesty and feelings”
 Sorry about so many really’s, but really? Again, I came there to pour my heart out to you about my marriage and the pain I’ve been silently dealing with for years. That’s what I came to do and that’s what I did. If the conversation after that had turned to OW, I would have eagerly gone there. Like I said, we were actively discussing how we were going to tell everyone close to us about what we had found in each other
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“I think you have barricaded yourself inside a lonely, dark, miserable place.”
 Yes, I had. But now I’ve broken free of that cell I put myself in and I feel fantastic!
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“Do you love yourself?”
n’t for years ma, but I do now. I feel I can finally be me again.
Just in case you have been out of the loop, let me give you an update. OW and I have agreed not to contact each other so that we are not a distraction to ourselves or our spouses as she and OWH, and W and I, work through our issues towards some kind of resolution, whatever form that takes. If OW and OWH decide to try and work things out, that’s a decision I have to live with, but it doesn’t affect MY marriage or my feelings towards W one bit.
Please don’t view this as a negative email, as I am still hurt by you and W going behind my back and, for lack of a better word, slandering me to all my friends. I also understand I hurt all of you, by hiding my relationship with OW, not to mention hiding (in essence lying) my true feelings about my marriage for years. I’d be very happy to join you at the table again if you would allow me too.
[quote”] First, this is the most stressful time in my life and you know I've had MANY stresses.... None compare. I want the best for you and always have - that will never change. You kept your loss of love for W to yourself - we never saw/heard anything otherwise except for one, just one time, you mentioned something about all the bags of dog/animal food that were in the house and you were bothered by that. I'm going to try to answer each of your inserts below. My stomach is upside-down. My heart is in my stomach. I'm aching for how you are feeling. I want only happiness for you. Good God, this is a massive situation. I can't help but compare your life today with your life before W and it just doesn't compare, in any way. What will you & the kids have without her?
I hope that I've highlighted all my text in red - might have missed some.
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By conspiratorial, I meant you and W going around to all my friends and painting me to be some kind of “serial cheater”. I’m not. When I asked you what W had told you, I was expecting that the answer you would give would be honest. When I asked you if you condoned what she had done (hand-delivering 5 pages of correspondence to OWH at his place of work), you said you didn’t know. Did you? I didn't know everything she had done. She certainly had substantial proof of the affair and she did share that with me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have believed her. I didn't go with W when she went to find OWH. There is no grey area between right and wrong for me. I felt, and still feel, that W was right in going to OWH. He didn't have a clue about the affair. Not a clue. Only something he caught her in, in March with some guy named XXX. I want your marriage to work (but, I know, better than most people, that if there is no physical love in a marriage - there should be no marriage.) More about that will follow....
When I came to your house, I came to talk to you about my marriage and what I’ve been feeling in my heart for YEARS! If you had a question about OW and our relationship, believe it or not, all you had to do was ask.
I went with W to friend's home. He's the only friend I saw. W had one request of him, and I supported it - that he not support your relationship with OWand he support your marriage
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“Oh really? And what was that? I guess MY thoughts and feelings are wrong, huh? I KNEW what I had come there to say and I said it, but it’s obvious you didn’t hear a word. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Maybe this will help. I feel NO DIFFERENT for W now than I have FOR YEARS!!!! Regardless of whether or not I had entered into another relationship, W and I would have wound up right where we are now eventually. I was there, but my heart had left the marriage long ago.
 YOUR thoughts are never, nor could never, be wrong - if they are real, I was expecting you to tell us you had fallen out of love with W and found happiness with OWand we were prepared to ask you to take a deep look at the pro/con sides of everything
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“I still do. What would you like me to be honest about? I poured my heart out to you and you think I wasn’t being honest? I told you that day how I’ve been feeling FOR YEARS!! This isn’t something that’s just creeped up in the past few months ma, and I also thought I had thoroughly explained through the years, how I had been conditioned into becoming a “yes man” and LOST the ability to tell her how I felt about ANYTHING! So much of me had to be buried to accommodate that “lifestyle”, but hey, that’s what you do in a marriage, right? No - you don't give up any of yourself in marriage - you share everything - the good and bad bumps and blemishes. I'm ashamed that I stayed with your Father for 12 years. He had a disease and I felt I could fix him. Wrong. BUT, when he told me about OWHin I was at the lawyers office the very next day. We divorced him and life began, anew.
Not that I’m trying to compare myself to you and your life choices, and PLEASE don’t take this the wrong way, but didn’t you begin a relationship while married (XH had told me even since before we married (I new our love would be platonic but I needed him, for you & brother) that if ever I found my soulmate it would break his heart if I didn't act on it. He wanted me to be happy and new we would never have a physical marriage. God bless him for trying, though, and we almost produced a baby that would have brought all of us much joy.) and exit from a “loveless marriage” to marry the man of your dreams? Please correct me if my perception is false. I’m not throwing stones here; I’m merely asking a question to get your perspective.”
. The day that I told XH I thought I could have a "marriage-like" relationship with FIL we were riding in the Jeep to Country Air to go camping for the weekend. He wrote a letter to FIL (I have it in my bureau drawer and you may read it) telling him he was so very happy for both of us. XH told me, during that long drive, that he would stay in the Main Street apt. with you guys so I could be with FIL - but I never planned on moving away from you guys - that's why FIL eventually moved in with us. We can have a long talk about all of this sometime soon. Have you ever wondered why FIL & I are so friendly/close with XH? We're going camping with him from May 1 thru the 18th, to Virginia. We will always be thankful to him for allowing us to be together. He volunteered to be Best Man at our wedding but we didn't think people would be able to handle that. If XH hadn't been honest with me from the very beginning I don't think FIL could have crept through the tiny crack in my heart. I thank God every day for him.
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“You mean fight to keep me in a marriage where I felt dead inside? Honey, I didn't know you felt dead inside. You never came to me. I know you're not a kid anymore but you could have talked about it. It might have helped - or not. Is that what everyone wants? YAY! We saved the marriage! Who cares if H is miserable, W loves him anyway! .”
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“Ok, I can totally see your point about my being honest with everyone concerning my relationship with OW. Yes, we kept our relationship hidden. We were actually actively discussing how we were going to come out and tell everyone, but the cat got out of the bag too soon. However, what assumptions are you making about my honesty with OW? I’m an open book to her! . I'm just wondering how you were going to finalize a relationship with her. Where would you live? Was she ready to take on the kids? So many new responsibilities We have no secrets! We discuss EVERYTHING! We communicate in a way I never knew was possible! There’s a LOT you should know about OW and I. .”

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“Again, I thought I had explained that clearly. I had been conditioned early in our relationship to just go along with everything, to be complacent. I was complacent with father and life would sure be different today had I moved toward another man. I think my life was in God's hands and I had to be married to Arnie - then wait 5 years to meet & marry XH, before I could be with FIL. W and I had a very good talk yesterday at lunch where she acknowledged this and apologized and understood that this was pOWHably too little, too late
. I'm glad you guys talked but wish there was more good news following it
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“No? Hmmm…My closest friends have been talking amongst themselves about something they knew was bothering me deeply for the past THREE YEARS MA! THEY knew something was troubling me! And three years ago is only when I could no longer keep it hidden inside and it finally started to break the surface. They saw it!
 But you never let it break the surface around us!!!! I wish you had. You carried a heavy burden for too long. Talking about it might have lightened the load, some.
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“That’s what I wanted you and everyone else to see. And, that's what we saw
I will NEVER deny that she was a positive influence on the kids and I hope she will continue to be. They love her a lot. She has been more than a real Mother to them . .
”
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“How so?
 . Your tangible life is so different. You didn't have as many opportunities.
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“Really? As I recall, everyone was in SUPPORT of my ending my marriage with XW.
 Yes, but you didn't have another women on the side. That makes a big difference when it comes to supporting someone during the breakup of a marriage. Yes, I had FIL. When XH & I visited a lawyer for our divorce we sat in front of the guy and flipped a coin to see who was going to file. He charged $250 because he had no work to do. We rode to the courthouse together. He begged us not to enter the courtroom at the same time and NOT to sit together. When it was over we went out to breakfast to "celebrate" and will never forget those days. They were all preparation for my future happiness. I will always love XH and FIL will forever be grateful to him.
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“Sorry about so many really’s, but really? Again, I came there to pour my heart out to you about my marriage and the pain I’ve been silently dealing with for years. That’s what I came to do and that’s what I did. The conversation might have turned to OWbut brother came over and decided to visit. If the conversation after that had turned to OW, I would have eagerly gone there. Like I said, we were actively discussing how we were going to tell everyone close to us about what we had found in each other What were your future plans if the affair hadn't been discovered prior to your announcing it? ”

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Yes, I had. But now I’ve broken free of that cell I put myself in and I feel fantastic! This is the best sentence I've read, so far. .”

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“n’t for years ma, but I do now. I feel I can finally be me again
.
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Just in case you have been out of the loop, let me give you an update. OW and I have agreed not to contact each other so that we are not a distraction to ourselves or our spouses as she and OWH, and W and I, work through our issues towards some kind of resolution, whatever form that takes. My fingers are crossed that you can somehow rebuild a new foundation with W and begin with small steps toward the way you felt about her in the very beginning. You said some fabulous things when you described her to us. If OW and OWH decide to try and work things out, that’s a decision I have to live with, but it doesn’t affect MY marriage or my feelings towards W one bit.
Please don’t view this as a negative email, as I am still hurt by you and W going behind my back and, for lack of a better word, slandering me to all my friends. I also understand I hurt all of you, by hiding my relationship with OW, not to mention hiding (in essence lying) my true feelings about my marriage for years. I’d be very happy to join you at the table again if you would allow me too.
PS - Now, this is what I call - communication! Our door is open for you.
dead inside? Is that what everyone wants? YAY! We saved the marriage! Who cares if H is miserable, W loves him anyway! W doesn't want you to be miserable, either.
None of this dismisses the fact that this is a grown man who resorts to escapism and infidelity rather than owning his marriage and taking the necessary steps to correct it.
I still say most of this "for three years" garbage is script.
Sure, he may feel hurt, but I think this man has GUILT running through him, STRESS, FRUSTRATION, FEAR, EMBARASSMENT and a myriad of other emotions.
He seems to think he has this marvelous talent to compartmentalize all of this and isolate the exact cause of each of his feelings to one person each.
Wow, that's impressive!
He's found his true self?
His true self is a liar, a cheat, and a deadbeat child who wont' own his behaviour?
Man, that's someone I would be proud to be one day!
Final I think. Please don't feel you have to apologize for anything you've said - it's open communication. I'm typing, too.
I really have never chosen sides - I chose to be on the side of the marriage - to try to keep you & W together. Not for a moment did I suspect you were feeling the way you do - you never talked about it.
Just think of this:
If you came to me prior to all of this, and said you just found out W was having an affair, what do you think I would have done? I would have done the same things with/for you that I did with W!!!! You guys have made me sooooooooooooo proud through all the years of your marriage. I can't help but want to keep it together. The kids will want you to stay together, I have no doubt.
Please don't feel your perspective counts for nothing - it matters greatly how you feel. I felt wrongly that you were maybe exagerating your feelings to make us feel happy for the introduction of OW in your life.
OW has picked you up - dusted you off - and let you "start all over again" in a relationship built on secrets/lies/covert actions/hiding places/intimate rendezvous/etc. Although FIL and I never had those experiences - XH was told early on before any intimacy began - I can understand the good, exciting, warm fuzzy, happy, freeing, goose-bumpy being in love feeling that you have had thinking about being with OW. You hadn't felt those feelings with W for years BUT years ago YOU DID HAVE THOSE VERY SAME FEELINGS!!! You told me about them. Your face told me they were true.
Baby steps, working slowly on re-building a relationship with W - one that you can control - one that will give you some control - one that will allow you to be yourself, to feel safe to be an open book - to talk about everything and anything. To proudly re-introduce yourself to W. To be the man she married. No need to toe a line - you will help in drawing the line.
Please, my heart will rest if you can just try. She's not a monster. A monsterous thing happened to her. She put the monster away 12 years ago, or tried to. Yes, it poked up a couple of times in the recent past but has gone away - to stay away. W is more aware of her dark side today than ever before in the past. She will work to keep it away. It will clear the way for working on the marriage, too.
My bottom line - find help that will help to find you, to help you understand what happened those years ago. The lost part of you is just under the surface. W is willing to work, very hard, to not only make your marriage/family work BUT to help find the things/actions that will help to make you HAPPY. When you're happy - W is happy. We're all happy! Happy is good 8-)
I just started thinking about the weekend coming up, that W registered you for. It might not be a solution but it could be one of the baby steps to help you move forward, just a little bit closer to resolving issues. It's been paid for - the food should be good - accommodations should be good - all you have to lose is the time - and who knows what might be gained. I hope you choose to go.
Allen, right now your support and help is helping me more than I can say. I LOVE MIL for the last email she sent him. It's WONDERFUL. I wouldn't change anything... I hope he takes it to heart. I hope he loves and respects her enough to take her advice.
Wish I could give YOU a big kiss on the cheek to say thanks.
I'm feeling very lovey to many people right now. MIL/FIL for their support, friends for their prayers, and my DB friends for their advice and shoulders and ears.
I am an outsider looking in but your husband's words just ring so loud that he is a BIG BALL OF confusion!! Wow, I have no words, really. I wish I could send your MIL some flowers...SHE IS A STANDUP MOTHER!!! My MIL, nice but not standup like that...I am very impressed.
I hate to see your husband go down this road but he is in for a RUDE awakening. I can also see how you exposing the affair put the brakes on it. Just imagine if they would of had time to put together a plan to bring everyone up to date on their affair.
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
Yeah, I don't know what would have happened if it had continued, but I suspect it would not have lasted... OW was TOO ready to back away (if she really is, that is) when it was exposed. It still may be underground... but his words to MIL say that they have agreed to back off for now. I HOPE he's not lying to his mother after that great exchange they had where he FINALLY told her the truth about what he has been doing (although still face saving - "I WAS going to tell you, you just didn't give me a chance."
Stand up is not the word for it. IF my M is saved, she (AND FIL) will be a BIG part of it - a HUGE part of it and I will NEVER be able to repay them for their commitment and love and support.
And if my M still fails, I (and they) can stand proud and say we did the best fighting we could and we're going to go to our graves knowing there was nothing else that could be done.
DH and I were trying to have a baby... and that's a LONG LONG LONG way off from being thought of now... but if we did, we'd really have to consider changing the name we had picked out to honor them. Don't know how I'd combine their names, though. Hers is very feminine and his is very masculine. LOL
1. He can't BLAME his WIFE because HE never spoke up, that's HIS responsability
2. HE has not not one, but TWO affairs now, and he won't acknowledge the DAMAGE they do, and that's HIS responsability
3. He's lied and cheated AGAIN and won't acnkowledge the damage he's done AGAIN, and that's HIS responsability
4. He's STILL doing damage by playing these facebook games, he won't even apologize to OWH for having sex with the man's wife... he COMPLETELY sidestepped the fact that his "true feelings" were being INSERTED into another man's WIFE...
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He's playing the same song over and over and it's getting pretty monotonous.... he felt repressed, but for all that time he chose to keep that to himself. He never told his family or friends, or went to a family therapist or even cracked opena book!
Despite his feelings he's had for years, his choice of managing those feelings is to escape, lie, cheat, VIOLATE ANOTHER marriage, and now he's playing victim.
Sorry, I have no sympathy for this. He set this all up for himself... these are all HIS choices Pass, I didn't list ONE THING you did above.
Sure, you controlled alot, and he LET you... you MANAGED a lot, and he sat back and LET you.. YOU did all the WORK, and he sat and WATCHED.. this makes YOU the bad guy how?
Did he ever ASK if he could do anything more to help? No, he chose NOT to.
Listen...
<violins playing in the background...>
Some sympathy for him I will toss his way...
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1. He lied to his wife 2. He lied to his children 3. He lied to his mother 4. He lied to his friends 5. He used his wife 6. He used OMH 7. He conspired to DO UNBELIEVABLE DAMAGE to his marriage while YOU conspired to SAVE not one but TWO MARRIAGES
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Lets make an analogy here...
Some guy's in the hospital, he's on life support... not doing well at all...
1. Husband sneaks in and starts plunging a knife into him 2. Wife sneaks in and gives him a pillow, a blanket, changes his bedpan.. and while she's THERE... she visits the guy in the bed next to this man and does the same for HIM too
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Who's the rotten sneak in the scenario above you tell me! lol
Your husband is AVOIDING the affair.. he puts 99% of his energy into talking about how HE feels and ignores all of teh damage he's been doing for how many weeks now?
The fact that he feels excited is erroneous here. He's married and so is OW. No contest. He made a commitment and he needs to HONOUR that FIRST... his FEELINGs and YOUR feelings come second.
You COULD try this route :
1. Your Wife is hurt 2. Your Wife is miseable 3. Your Wife feels used 4. Your Wife feels betrayed 5. Your wife feels robbed 6. Your wife feels violated
<add as much more on the end as you want...>
This is YOUR feelings ... if HIS feelings are SO IMPORTANT, then YOUR FEELINGS shoudl be HEARD TOO
1. YOU chose to WORK on your marriage 2. RENEW your HONOURED COMMITMENT 3. Communicate your feelings 4. Involve family for support 5. Forgive the hurt brought to your doorstep 6. Work on your marriage
YOU chose to rise ABOVE how YOU FEEL and act like an ADULT
Why didn't HE try this three YEARS AGO?
If you look at it THIS way, all of this garbage he's been spewing all afternoon just falls to the floor.
He seems to think he was in SO MUCH MORE PAIN than YOU... and I highly doubt that.
The fact remains is that when things got difficult, YOU turned to his mother and worked to SOLVE the pain YOU were in, and HE didn't.
