Yes, bluestar, I believe he is VERY conflicted right now. The way he's been treating me, good and bad, laughing with me in bed at night, touching me again... it's all so anathema to what he had been doing, and not consistent.
25years, I absolutely have done EVERYTHING I can for this M out of love and not hurt. As you can see, I post all my intentions before carrying them out, listen to advice, weigh it heavily, talk to MIL/FIL for more advice, think through what I expect the reaction to be and if it will move me closer to my goals, and THEN I do what I feel needs to be done. So far, for me, exposure has had mostly positive impact. It seems negative to H, but it's putting pressure on him.
I would just TELL him you are going and GO. You don't need to negotiate. Your husband is of the mind right now that HE has to GET into the FACE of EVERYONE you expose and talk to. So, I suspect if you start going he will very much want to get in there and tell "his side" of the "story"
VERY good point, I can see that working.
Quote:
The problem is your husband thinks this is a WAR between YOU and HIM. It's a WAR between MARRIAGE and INFIDELITY. Your husband needs to bail off the losing side here before you lose respect for him completely. I honestly can't see your mother supporting OW at all in the future... and she should make that CLEAR to her SON. OW was DELIBERATELY SABOTAGING her DAUGHTER in law in SECRET for how many months? Does this guy honestly expect her to welcome this OW into her home?
So true. She's NOT a nice person at all, I can't imagine her ever accepting her into their wonderful family. I'm just grateful that I have had the chance to share with them. My mother is the most loving, wonderful woman ever and MIL is so much like my mom. I just love when they get together, wish they were closer friends... I know my mom loves when they come for visits. I really don't want to lose this family we've both (H and I) grown together. D is more than losing your spouse, it's a breakup of an entire family. My parents ADORE H (they have no idea of the problems we've had other than knowing there was "something" not right from time to time) If they lost not only him, but the RESPECT for him, it would devastate them. And they consider my step children to be their grandchildren. It's just a HUGE mess if this ends.
The drinking worries me though Pass. For a few reasons.
1. Is he responsible enough to know not to drink and drive? He hasn't exactly been a beacon of accountability thus far... 2. When he's been drinking he's vulnerable and OW may phone him or he may more easily break down and call OW... is there someone WITH him when he's out drinking?
The drinking worries me as well. His father was an alcoholic. (and a cheater) He definitely has it in his genes. Usually he can control it, but when he's an alien, no, I saw him once drive when he couldn't even stand up straight, and several times he tried but I was able to get the keys first. I will never forget the time he was so drunk, I took the keys and he "opened" the door with air and then turned the ghost keys in his hand to start the car. Took me 15 minutes to get him OUT of the drivers seat and he thought he was driving home. I have alcoholism in my family also, so I make it a policy to NEVER drink and drive (not even one drink) - to RARELY drink to excess (usually a case of me not pacing myself by mistake) and never to drink when I'm upset... H usually is the same - he naturally regulates. Anyway, I'm concerned, but not enough just yet to do anything about it from an addiction standpoint. I have seen him here before and then just "stopped" with no problems.
The driving thing does worry me. If I say anything, he'll consider it controlling and more likely to do it more.
I don't understand why allowing close friends and family to be involved in the exposure and confrontation process would be a horrible thing. These same people are people who were at the WEDDING in many cases.
When a marriage is BEGINNING it is customary to have everyone involved and CELEBRATE... wouldn't it make logical sense when a marriage is falling APART to bring many of those SAME PEOPLE in to help RESCUE that same marriage?
Marriages aren't secret solo activities, they are units of COMMUNITY. Couples, Homes, Children build a COMMUNITY. The idea that a marriage is BEST saved in SECRET is ridiculous.
Who said to do that? If you are quoting me, well, you're not. Although I do think some things are best left as private matters between a couple. I simply gave my "near A" experience from long long ago, which is NOT why I came to DB. My db experience was, as you can see below, based on my h's MLC and departure and return, etc etc. Our m did not end, btw.
ALthough I did NOT have an A --I sure thought about having one AND I know many who have, and some who regret it. I also think that there are those who DO cheat, who MIGHT have come back IF they could overcome the resistance that others can create in the LBSer when the desire to punish, rather than reconcile rears its' head. IOW the WAS did not believe the LBSer would let it go and so it seemed to hard to overcome the anger and pain and rebuilding that the LBSer would want or need. Sometimes that is the cost of an A but sometimes, sometimes I wonder if we get a bit too self righteous and see things a bit too much in black and white...
I have NOT seen a marriage saved by shaming a spouse -although some may remain married or come home-- I have not seen a marriage "restored" in MWD terms by shaming or guilting someone home.
BUT that doesn't necessarily invalidate Puppy's experience. I am distinguishing HIS type of exposure from the kind that is punitive and vindictive, at least based on his description of how he did it.
I can say As a L, who briefly got stuck doing Div Law, that each time I had a client "go off" on a cheating spouse and expose, each time[/i]- the marriage ended for good. Maybe it should have. Maybe they were the types do be angry and vindictive and created the sitch that made the A more likely or whatever....But as for statistics--(as if there are a ton of controlled double blind studies on this--) I mean hey, we are ALL going by experience here and I shared mine-- I simply wonder if some of the WAS's might have returned to the M, had the LBSer shown the ability to truly forgive and let go and move forward. You know, "keep the road home paved and smooth..." as per my DB coach's words.And I do think in general, that letting go and moving on, is a whole lot harder if others know about it. The more people that know, the more defensive the WAS feels, the more they need to justify, and the rougher the road home is -- and if that's what the LBSer wants, so be it. But I'd be darn sure it was wisdom and not pride - making my choices for me...and a loving but healing heart, not a hurting dying one.
Let's face it, for SOME people - the reason they want others to know is to pressure the spouse to come back and call it "community marital support" but it's pressure, it's pursuit, it's sometimes, not lovingly motivated. Some of us want to be "declared RIGHT" and would prefer that actually -- to being happy....hence the phrase, "do you want to be 'right' or do you want to be 'happy'?"
I literally had a deeply wounded client LBS woman tell me that her h had gotten OW pregnant. That sucks! Now she wanted "to hurt that new baby like our babies have been hurt..." She wanted to ruin the OW's career as well as her h's career, etc. That would cost her OWN CHILDREN CS and health insurance and housing and her share of his retirement, as her h was in the military so by punishing her H, she'd also be punishing herself and her own children--in order to punish the OW and that "bastard" child as well.....So what do you say to that? We all KNOW how it feels to be left, we know how it feels to feel rejected. We get it. IT sucks.
But to deliberatly hurt another person b/c you were hurt, is just spreading the misery and sometimes, I think OP's spouses don't need or want to know and sometimes I think it's just spreading the misery and that misery DOES love company. SOMETIMES...and I guess that's my point. I saw almost everyone here saying "Go for the exposure!!" with a strange glee, but what I would like to hear is from a WAS who had an A and reconciled --and what made them come home...
To the extent I had [i]some of that experience, I offered it as food for thought and an alternative to the stuff said here. I simply said that if my h had done what you were suggesting, I KNOW I would not have come home. I would have justified the R as I felt at the time, that it was justifiable. Most A's feel that way or they would not occur. And I stand by the part about motives. That makes all the difference in the world but it requires us to look deep within ourselves - at a very painful time in our lives - and to rise above righteous anger, to know what HIS will is and to follow that....just my 2 cents. Why does that bother people? I am NOT saying "lie for the WAS" or to cover for them, (where'd that come from??)....but I am saying to stop and check yourself. What's the goal of the exposure AND, the likely outcome of it--be prepared to be vilified and seen as the bad guy for one thing, be ready to be seen as vindictive and deserving of a spouse having an A [b]and NO I am not saying you are[/b]--I'm saying be ready for that version to come out...does it make things better then? I submit, not always...
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I haven't read this whole thread, but just wanted to weigh in:
I did expose my H's A to my family, and an elder of our church - WORST decision EVER! I thought I was going to get support - instead my H was villified and eventually so was I...it will be 4 years this June and we are STILL dealing with the fall out. I am thankful that my H has stuck it out and has decided to work towards restitution - with ALL parties involved, but it has been a nightmare! And we have had to make some really tough decisions, not to mention that we haven't just had to work to repair our marriage, but also relationships with others. Exposing compounded the problems in our R, it did NOT help at all.
Just keep in mind that when you give information away that information becomes the property of whoever you told and that person will do what they will with it. You can only control what YOU do, you can't control what others do with information you give them.
blessings, em
Me: 34 H: 39 M: 7 yrs H A 12/05-8/07
If what you say surprises me, I must have been assuming something else was true. - M. Wheatley
Got very discouraging email from FIL tonight - need help with PMA guys. Please help... input - Allen, Puppy.
There are 4 Stages of Marriage: (1) Romance, (2) Disillusionment, (3) Misery, and (4) Awakening. Due to the high divorce rate many couples never make it to the 4th Stage of Awakening.
I find this list to be depressing I can only imagine that the person who devised it was depressed and or in a failing marriage. [Projecting??]
Although my X followed this route we were romantic, then she found disillusionment (happlily ever after fantasy big with her) since happyness didn't walk in the door and jump in her lap she got a divorce.
You are in the Misery stage definitely and H has convinced himself you're only friends.
I personnaly feel you two could be good for each other, but he has convinced himself it is over.
Waiting for kids to get through High School won't help you or H, and is lying to the kids.
For H to be a "single father" with three children right now would BLAST him into an Awakening of what you have provided his children and him.
I feel they've given up on us. I am still not ready - I know that this is hopelessness and H doesn't see a way back. Am I deluding myself? Is this script? I feel like it is. His last attempt to get them on his side... I feel that if they accept this, it's the last nail in our coffin.
I find your post confusing. I assume that everything after the first sentence is a quote from FIL. My interpretation is that he finds the list depressing because he never broke through from misery to Awakening. He doesn't see how people can break through. He recognizes that you are in Misery. After that he is telling you what he heard from your H -- you are H are friends , he is convinced it is over. His recommendation is that you give H a dose of reality. He uses the word awakening but not in the same way that it is used in the list above. He thinks that if you drop the rope, as they say around here, you will have your best chance of H returning.
I don't think he has given up on you. I think he hears your H saying that his mind is made up. And he is relaying it back to you. He doesn't believe that he or MIL can change H's mind. He thinks the best chance is for H to wake up to the reality that you do make his life better.
I was still hoping Retro may help... I was planning on waiting until just before the weekend and seeing if he'd changed his mind. Telling him it would help bring me some closure if nothing else. Don't know if his mind is currently closed if it would help at all. Just really reaching here.
