Keep it up Ken... That's good stuff... You see, when you stir the pot like that, her affair isn't romantic or beautiful, its STRESSFUL... I bet you made your home last night very unpleastant to live simply by taunting her to call OM and him calling back.
And that was an EXCELLENT challenge about alienating her kids... You hit it right on the NOSE and REALITY HIT HER and she did NOT LIKE IT... MORE of that... Keep it coming...
And you recorded the call too! Bonus.. Try to do that again with him fully admitting infidelity on the phone and you can get him arrested!
I bet the police would get involved too... even if just a warning... it still makes a mess of what was once a secret and exciting affair... just keep pouring vomit on their affair Ken.. it does work wonders you'll see...
She also was saying that I was controlling and manipulating her by saying that I would seek custody of the kids and saying she was neglecting the kids. And I told her, "I was only trying to save my marriage. I'm just trying to get you to choose. Reconcile or go live with someone who is not controlling and manipulative, is not critical of you, and will not cheat on you." I said those things because she knows that is a perfect description of the OM and she thinks he has been critical of her.
I said, "You cannot even keep your agreement for one day." Then she jumped up and followed me around trying to figure out how I knew she talked to the OM. At first, she thought my kids told me. Then I got her thinking that I can access her phone log online (which I can't). So she yanked the cords out of the computers and picked up a monitor but I stopped her from breaking it.
When the OM called, he also admitted to talking to W on the phone during the day. Later, he sent me this email:
"W is your wife, and I suppose it is your right to use manipulations, distortions, your own children or her parents to control her. Frankly, I just try being nice and respectful to her. But you win! I hope that your marriage can be happy as such!
I enjoyed being her friend while it lasted. You alone are a detriment to her future happiness!"
I did not respond.
My wife goes to talk to a lawyer today to learn about her rights. All the things that she complains about about me are things that happened years ago, except for maybe manipulating her by using the threat of D or the threat of keeping the kids from her (neither of which I really want to do). But I told her that I'm willing to go to counselling for being a "control freak" or for being a "manipulator" or whatever she thinks is my problem. She says that she can't eradicate the bad memories and that I killed the love she may have had for me. I told her that I wished she could get past that, because I want to be a different person for her.
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
The OM just called me at my work to tell me that he's not going to be calling my wife and that he's asked her not to call him and that he's moving to another state in July. We'll see. His promises before have always been like ropes of sand. He claims that whenever they have broken it off before, W was the one calling him and that he "is NOT going to NOT pick up the phone".
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
When the OM called, he also admitted to talking to W on the phone during the day. Later, he sent me this email:
"W is your wife, and I suppose it is your right to use manipulations, distortions, your own children or her parents to control her. Frankly, I just try being nice and respectful to her. But you win! I hope that your marriage can be happy as such!
I enjoyed being her friend while it lasted. You alone are a detriment to her future happiness!"
Ken, its wonderful to meet you.. for months I've been following your sutation and NOW I think I finally SEE you... It's great to hear from the real you ... Keep up the great work. I think you can see the stress YOU are giving the OM when you pressure your wife now right?
When you pressure your wife to separate or reconcile SHE calls OM and HE has to deal with it.. and if he is with his wife then he has to deal with women on both ends of his ear nagging at him... KEEP DOING THAT...
Notes of things to be careful of :
Be wary of agreeding to go to any anger management class or control freak course or anything.. you should NOT be admitting any wrongdoing for current actions. Acknowldege mistakes you made BEFORE the infidelity started and own those.
But once your wife starts cheating you do what you have to do to save your marriage and protect your home, she has NO GROUND to walk on there and complain...
Don't take her crap for anything you are doing right now.
I am worried about this statement you used :
Quote:
Reconcile or go live with someone who is not controlling and manipulative, is not critical of you, and will not cheat on you." I said those things because she knows that is a perfect description of the OM and she thinks he has been critical of her.
I am a bit confused there, but try not to tell her to GO to OM... You want her to
a. Work on the marriage b. Separate herslf from her marriage and family
Those are her choices.. OM is not part of the advice...
The problem is right now she wants to remain part of the family and the marriage, but act in a way that does DAMAGE while being part of it.
Much like a problem child, as long as she causes problems for the family stead of supporting her family she needs to exit from that family until she demonstrates she can be part of the family again...
Keep that in mind, don't push her at OM, focus on that she's doing damage to her kids and her marriage, YOU are protecting the marriage, OM is attacking the marriage.
I don't know what to think of OM right now.. Keep collecting all the info he's sending you... he's practically admitting to infidelity at this point...
I suspect he can see your wife's quite the drama queen right now and he doens't want to deal with her...
Thanks Allen. Everything you are saying makes good sense.
I was saying those things about the OM to be sarcastic - about him not being critical when he is, not being a cheater when he is, etc. so I hope she got that when I said it, but I'll try to avoid sending her to the OM.
If I am successful at getting the OM out of the picture, I can tell I still have a lot of damage control to do, based on her words to me. I guess when you are pulling a stick out of your gut, you initially make the wound worse before you can start to repair it. I loved the story you sent me about the log in the house. I told the OM that I needed to get the log out of my house before I could fix my house and he said, "Who, your wife" I said, "No, you!"
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
Don't even try to negotiate with him.. he's just pressing you for INTEL to give to your wife... He will just twist it into something different and then tell your wife HIS interpretation... Don't try to educate OM.. He's had his chance to walk away when you exposed.. he just laughed at your marriage.. nothing you say is going to inspire him or scare him.
And yes, you are getting it.. your wife will be angry, she will throw a tantrum, she will call you every name you can think of... My wife threw things, she called me names, she threatened me, she make it quite clear she FELT at the TIME that she wanted NOTHING to DO with me... that was almost two years ago when the affair was at its peak...
She's inviting me to outings now, we have dinner together, she's planting prennials in her backyard garden... She's saying and doing everythign she USED to do BEFORE OM showed his ugly face in my home.
The wife you lost DOES come back Ken, but yes you have to get UGLY and DRIVE the addiction and the OM OUT of your HOME.. she will FIGHT you VISCIOUSLY to keep him in her head and heart... just do what you have to do...
I think your kids are of an age now that you have seen similar resistance in them when they want something and YOU know that its NOT good for them right?
Do your kids agree with you and back off or do they FIGHT YOU and resist?
I know you dont' want to have to parent your wife through this, but while she's addicted she's no better at making healthy decisions for herself than a child.
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Your comments about OM to your wife make a lot more diffrence when its sarcasm yes.
I did the same thing to my wife, but I focussed on him attacking our home.
I would say something like
Look at what this man is doing to someone's home... children live here... If I did that to someone's home you would DESPISE me for it.. But HE is doing it to YOUR CHILDREN and YOUR HOME... and you LOVE him for it?
If you care about your home and family here then PROTECT them like I AM and tell him to GO AWAY... He's not a MAN, he's a PREDATOR and TRESPASSING in OUR HOME and THREATENING YOUR FAMILY.. ACT like a MOTHER and SEND HIM AWAY!!!
That may hit home with her.. It worked for me at least... If you keep up your current pressure you will gradually wake her up.. but you cannot BACK DOWN... NEVER BACK DOWN... she is going to threaten to leave, to take the kids, to call lawyers, she will threaten to make your life miserable.
SHe has no leverage Ken.. you just have to belive that she's BLUFFING you and won't follow through... and to be honest as I said it doesn't sound like she CAN... she hasn't even spoken to a lawyer or done any research.. she's too busy on the PHONE with OM...
She will come around Ken.. OM sounds way too flighty and unreliable anyways... once she realizes he isnt' trustworthy she will come crawling back...
Look at what this man is doing to someone's home... children live here... If I did that to someone's home you would DESPISE me for it.. But HE is doing it to YOUR CHILDREN and YOUR HOME... and you LOVE him for it?
If you care about your home and family here then PROTECT them like I AM and tell him to GO AWAY... He's not a MAN, he's a PREDATOR and TRESPASSING in OUR HOME and THREATENING YOUR FAMILY.. ACT like a MOTHER and SEND HIM AWAY!!!
I feel like I am making great headway now even though my wife is still being very negative with me and constantly bringing up the past that she can't get over (before OM came along - About how I was controlling, critical of her, and didn't seem to really love her even though I did.)
She says she is waiting for her next paycheck and then she will get an apartment. All the trouble I had trying to get her to leave, and now that the OM is out of the picture, she wants to leave on her own. Go figure!
But if she does leave, I know that I have to just let her go and go into NC mode. I'm planning to review the DB book this evening for how to act now that I seem to be entering a new phase of this situation.
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
Do NOT be so naieve as to think he's given up on her... he's a predator Ken he KNOWS she's vulnerable.. He is NOT going to walk away... He may be frustrated and he may realize teh degree of RISK he's taking on now that you are fighting back finally, BUT, I wager he's still going to try again, even if its your wife that makes the call.
Do NOT be so sure your wife is going to leave... she gets a paycheque and then what? Reality starts to hit her...
Small apartment, uncertain future, part time mother, public embarassment because presumably you have exposed her affair well to protect YOUR reputation...
Do NOT listen to ANYof the complaints she has right now or take them to heart.. you seem to be concerned about them.. don't be... we have ALL HEARD THAT GARBAGE... Once the addiction is gone then won't even remember half of what they said to you... Its just going to be a bad dream they wish they could forget...
Protection Phase Ken... Read Penny Tupy's eBook, that's the best advice you can get right now... OM is still in the picture, don't be so confident that he's gone now... He just wanted to put you at ease and less vigilant.
There are many people on this forum who were confident the affair was over only to realize a year or even MORe later that its started up again...
Do NOT rest on your laurels or get confident yet... you have JUST STARTED to FIGHT BACK in the last few weeks.. Race isn't over yet Ken... Stakes are just higher now...
Do everything you can according to the law to protect your kids from your wife right now, she is NOT fit to care for them while she's addicted to this OM.
She may leave to try to make a point, but YOU have to be STRONG and stay put and stay back.. as long as you and your kids are safe, she has to grow up on her own... She moves out its like a time out for a child... do NOT accept any contact or initiate any... IGNORE her as long as your kids are with you and safe.
If she tries to negotiate to stay... Tell her the deal is the same...
1. She goes into family therapy for minimum of ONE YEAR and follows the guidance of the FT 2. No contact with OM 3. Full Transparency of all communication outlets without complaint or resistance 4. She puts 100% into the marriage 5. No sex for either of you for at least six months..
The last one is for her confidence... if you pressure her for anything physical right now she would react as if she's being raped.. her head is FULL of OM.. that's all she sees in her head right now...
NEITHER of you initiates anything physical until you BOTH are comfortable with it... And I suspect it will be over a year given how long this has been going on unchecked.
That is the deal Ken, if she does NOT accept that, then leave her in her apartment to stew and grow up... it's a time out.. she has to do it or accept the alternate agreement laid out above 1 - 5.
a. She is out in a time out in her own apartment ALONE b. She agrees to a marriage rebuilding effort laid out above under the supervision of a FT - laid out above.
Accept anything less and you do damage to your marriage and to your family.
You have to trust that she will get lonely and scared and will want to come home... She did NOT want to leave, you made that clear to all of us.. so TRUST that when she DOES leave she wont' like it and will want to come BACK
