MLC - standing by my man

[Mila]

Hi True, thanks for your post. I think that you see it right, he may be confused, but he is plowing ahead with his MLC and all of this C talk is all about control. He is asking to go to C not to work on our marriage, but to keep me in place and to stay in business with him and make it workable for him so he can continue his affair with OW with as little inconvenience to his present arrangements as possible.

I replied to his email asking about a meeting. I said that if we need to talk about business that I have no problem meeting with him. This is his reply

We can meet and try to stick to business talk, if you think it’s possible... You see, I wanted us to meet with C to help us get our communication on track...
I thought the meetings would be good, to force us to talk about business related issues like outstanding invoices, networking, marketing, new jobs...

So we are going to pay the counselor to talk about outstanding invoices????

So to answer your question....I don't think he is done....far from it.

[Truegritter]

AHA!

I am all for you my dear.

I just think you are doing great with your progress and it just seemed...well...like what it was.

[ericmsant2]

Mila

My last few post have been a little tough on you and so I will continue to appologize.

First I think you are doing really good standing your ground. IMO - I would not go to C. In a way you are bending over AGAIN to his wishes. I do not know enough about your business sitch but really why would you go to discuss business matters. If he wants to work on the R then it is pretty simple - leave OM!

Personally, I think it is time for you to go completely dark. His comment about not knowing what is going on. Who cares, he is the one that put himself in this spot. I also feel that you may be spending WAY too much time trying to figure out what he is thinking or feeling. Let him go Mila...let him find his own way.

Once again...sorry if I have offended you. It is not my intent.

God Bless,
Eric

[MrBond]

I think you should go to the C precisely for the reason he mentions. Communication.

Both of you are talking to each other and "hearing" but neither are actually "listening". Start with learning how to "talk" and start making mental notes while you're in there. It may be a good time to learn how to "hear" him. Not saying that you have to agree with everything he says, but just learning how you can talk to him will help alot to get your foot in the door.

[Mila]

Eric, stop apologizing you silly boy, I don't even know what you are apologizing for...have to look back and see if I should have been offended LOL.

Your posts are insightful and always treasured, so keep them coming even if they contain some 2x4....we all need those once in a while.

I don't think I have perfected this "going dark" business, because honestly if I remain as "dark" as I'm right now it will be impossible to run our company. That's my dilemma, how to do this...be enthusiastic and full of ideas and drive to make business succeed and remain dark????

Still trying to find a way.

With personal stuff I have no problem, he's been getting one word answers and he really doesn't know anything about me or D...unless she shares.

I mentioned that D blew him off yesterday, so today I get an email if it would be OK with me if he took D to her activity, I was going to reply "fine" but D called and said that she is not going that she has to much homework. So I emailed him to inform him of that. Got another email saying that he was texting with D an hour ago and she told him that I'm taking her so obviously she was going to go an hour ago...did it change since then? I replied "yes".

I wonder if D didn't want to go because he wanted to take her. If that's the case her anger at him is really starting to come out. Will have to have a talk with her about this...feel her out.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Mila,

Keep business business and keep him informed about D.

Past that...dark is dark.

"How is your day?" "What did you do last night?" At work?
Nocomittal.

"Ok" "Nothing much"

Any pressure for more. should be met with,

"I really would like to just keep this professional and business like. I am giving you the space you want, plase give me the space I want."

As for your D...you know, actually talking with her is a great idea. Giving him a brief run down of that conversation...and lettig her know beofre hand or asking her if you can relay the genrals about it to him as her father...isn't using her as a pawn.

If she is pisssed at him, she has every right to be pisssed, you are the one DBing him...not her. He can know that....I am kinda surprise he hasn't figured that out...but then MLC go figure. Head in the sand everything is fine and my ass smells like roses MLCers. : )

Dark is good, it is for you.

You are a smart lady you can figure out ways to say and do things to stay dark.

[ericmsant2]

Mila -

stop apologizing

so keep them coming even if they contain some 2x4

Ok - no more appologizies. You know I'm a much more sensative these days so I try and make sure that I am not coming across the wrong way.

Your posts are insightful and always treasured

Thank you. Pls know that they really come from my heart.

That's my dilemma, how to do this

I have to believe that you will figure this out. Why? Cause...as Jack pointed out you are a smart lady.

In terms of D - It appears that she has a cell phone so he should text her directly. No need to run everything by you. Having said this, the both of you will need to have convo as it relates to D.

Finally, if D is upset with him, IMO she has ever right to be. You need to let her express these feeling and do not try and "fix it" or mediate. H needs to understand that there are consequences to his actions. MLC and all.

When you do speak with D - try not to get into the details. How you deal with this sitch will show her WHO and WHAT her mother is made of. I know that you are strong...your actions should relfect the strength that is in you.

God Bless,
Eric

[seeking answers]

Mila, I agree, why would you need to go to a C to talk about business? Didn't you and H build up and run several successful businesses during your M? If you had trouble relating to him about it, I doubt they would have been successful.

You have told him you have no problem talking to him pertaining to business, yet he persists with this C issue. It is rather curious, but so are a lot of things they think and do during a MLC. It does sound like a control thing for him.

Being dark is a new tactic for you and you only. It's about your choice in this. (We do get some.) It's time spent in healing, self discovery, growth, GAL and anything else YOU want. So what if it has an affect on H. He didn't seem to concern himself with you when he took up with ow. Let him twist.

He told you that even though he was with ow now he could still manage his part of the business. Well as Jack said, you're a smart lady, I'm sure you can manage your half of the business while staying dark on the personal side of things. People do it all the time. Successful people know how to separate personal from professional. I have no doubts you could handle that very well!

(((Hugs)))

[Mila]

jack - thank you for stopping by...always a pleasure

"I really would like to just keep this professional and business like. I am giving you the space you want, plase give me the space I want."

That's a good approach, I will use that when I need it.

Recalling our last meeting the problem was that no matter what comment I made about business, he got into defensive. For example he was gone to see OW for almost 2 weeks, so I asked what new business did we get while he was gone (since he didn't keep me posted). Wow...right away he got upset that I'm accusing him of not working when with her...yet he didn't have anything new to report. Or we discuss a job and I point out that the profit margin is lower then it was on the same job for the same client last year. He jumps that I should be happy that we got the job...I'm never happy. So it's very frustrating...He must know that business suffers when he is gone for 2 weeks, yet he is total denial. He feels guilty and gets into defensive right
away.

Eric -

You know I'm a much more sensative these days

That's a good thing

I will observe D a little longer and if I see unhealthy behavior towards her dad, I will address it with her.

While ago, I explained to her that he is going through difficult time and that he needs space away from us to figure himself out. She asked me if would take him back and at that time I said yes. Since then she saw him come and go few times. She also told me "Mom you are too nice to him". To that I answered that it's complicated that I loved him for 36 years and I still love him.

SA - thank you my friend If I could just manage my half of the business without talking to him...that would be so nice...it's having to deal with him and his MLC insanity that is the problem.

[HeartsBlessing]

Mila,

This is getting interesting, no offense, but he's STILL trying to get back into your life, and trying to drag YOU back into his, using a counselor as an excuse, using ANYTHING he can FIND as an excuse to get you to break your darkness toward him....he CAN'T STAND IT!!

Your darkness is having an effect on him, do not break it, for anything..if you do, it will have to start once again, and his pestering will get worse.

He is trying REALLY hard to suck you BACK into the place you were before you set your boundaries of not wanting to see him while he's seeing OW.

And with him running around with OW, knowing you KNOW about what he's doing with her, he is trying to make you JEALOUS, thinking you might come running if you think YOU are going to lose HIM.

Typical childish MLC'er games being played here..ignore that..don't let it get to you.

Well, Mila, for now, you've really lost NOTHING...but a liar, a cheat, and a homewrecker times 2!

Who's the loser here? Certainly NOT YOU!

Ah, he's really out there, and you are finding yourself once again, and that's a good thing.

You, my dear, are doing fine...I know, at times you're uncertain, but the darkness you're in IS having its effect on him...good, he NEEDS to wonder what's up with you...and don't let him fool you; he KNOWS why you're dark, but he doesn't like it at all...and will do anything to break it, if you allow him to.

Up to you, but he really doesn't deserve the time of day right now, especially since he STILL has OW on his arm.

Your daughter blowing him off is actually GOOD for him to see what consequences consist of. And they won't all come from you; some will come through her..and that is hitting him pretty hard...and it NEEDS to.

He cannot do wrong and get by, and he needs to see that in black and white; through your actions...you're not exhibiting any anger or malice toward him, simply stating your boundaries, and he's getting restive and reactive...it's literally driving him crazy.

Now, if you could just hold out on him just to see what happens next.

Although you may encourage your daughter to build a relationship with her dad, you really cannot make her do that; she is nearly grown, and is capable of making her own choices regarding her relationship with her dad...you have nothing to do with that, that is totally separate from the problems you're experiencing with your husband.

Stay out of their relationship, or lack, thereof..it will work itself out or it won't..it's up to them.

Not wanting to tell you what to do, but while I encouraged son to build a relationship with his dad, I did NOT make him do anything...I stayed clear of both of them...it had NOTHING to do with ME...I was only responsible for any interaction I had with my husband, and I was responsible for the relationship between me and son.

I saw this question from SA:

Maybe one of our wise DBers can explain this type of behavior from the MLCer as I have often wondered why they are so insensitive to our feelings. The MLCer can't seem to comprehend why those things would upset us and their children.

Selfishness is one of the first things I remember about the insensitivity of the MLC'er...like children they are thinking of no one or anything but themselves...therefore, they do NOT care about who they hurt, just as long as THEY don't get hurt.
It is also called "entitlement"..they think they are entitled to all they can get, regardless of who gets in the way, they will leave much destruction in their wake.

Like a child going through puberty once again, they are at a stage in their life BEFORE the spouse was met. That's also why there's NO recognition in their eyes when they look at their spouse, they truly do NOT know them at all, couldn't care less what they think; for all they know while within this the spouse could be the stranger up the street for all they care.

They get so deep with the replay of their lives, that the spouse and family they've left behind means NOTHING to them for a time...just someone who is "getting in the way" of their fun.

Now, remember, they are looking for OUTSIDE sources to blame for their unhappiness, also looking for OUTSIDE sources to ease that pain...and until they realize it's not working and look within, they continue to be destructive; using many running behaviors to try and get away from that pain.

They generally have to go DOWN in a big way to "wake them up" when they are really deep, and some NEVER wake up...just get stuck, never moving forward.

They continue their selfish behavior, going from one thing to the next, much like a child who gets all the toys they want, and doesn't make any effort to take care of what they have...and destruction is rampant as they go through.

There are some worse than others, from what I've observed over the years.

FWIW, this lasts until the "awakening" that brings them out of Replay..then things start changing, depending on how much damage done during that stage.
Some go into OW/OM Withdrawal,(if an affair has been had) and the lack of recognition is STILL there on into Depression...it is not until the Depression begins to lift that recognition of the spouse begins to return their eyes.

Yet, at times, they ARE well aware of what they are doing, but their feelings, such as they are have been "buried", and their morals compromised...the line between right and wrong has been blurred, and they seem to have a "seared" conscience...if they took a long, hard, honest look within, and saw the damage in the place they're in, they would have a total nervous breakdown...so they "stuff" their conscience in a box and bury it, right along with their feelings...and these are deep in a place that no one can reach, not even the MLC'er.

I do NOT know if "X" marks the spot, but as they (in theory) move along in the tunnel, these things are found again, and brought out, but it takes a LONG time for them to do so.

Mentally, they have to be strong enough to survey the damage, and they cannot take it all at one time; that is why it's starts being shown in Depression, then more in Withdrawal, then the veil is lifted completely in Acceptance, showing them EVERYTHING they've done...by Acceptance, they are strong enough to face it all, and try to fix the damage, unless the LBS finds it all too much...it takes ALOT of strength on the LBS' part to forgive, accept and heal from the damage if it's great.

I remember my husband saying that he'd gotten into the mindset that he could do ANYTHING to me, and I would take what he dished out at me...being as disrespectful as he wanted to.

BUT, when I changed my attitude toward him, that told him if he didn't do something and quickly, he would LOSE me, and he did NOT want that, so he did the best he could to first make me go back to what I'd been before to make it easier on him, THEN he HAD to change himself, which caused a further battle within him, because he really DIDN'T want to change..but in the end, he was FORCED to.

During this same time was when he thought of just leaving and never coming back..this happened three times, according to him, and on the third, he had to look ahead to see what it would be like WITHOUT me in his life, and he couldn't stand the thought.

So, I won by default...if you could call it that.

But, I believe, sincerely, if I HADN'T changed, he might have walked away, anyway, because you cannot coexist with someone you cannot respect...and while I was what I used to be, he had NO respect for me.

When I drew those necessary boundaries and changed myself, it helped to draw him BACK toward me, partly because it took the pressure OFF both of us...I wasn't clinging, demanding or begging and pleading.

This took time, but was well worth it, and I kept every change I made, as it resulted in a more mature ME..and it was good for my emotional well being/health.

Have a good one.