Just read your entire thread, Red. Wheeee! Very interested in the techniques that Larry is teaching. Sounds very much like what I always thought from the gut, but then when I read up on exposing A's, etc., I figured I had not been educated enough on the subject. And as an AWAW, it still stung to think about "exposure".
So, I join the others in anticipation of all you are learning and sharing with us. I also agree that the student will be through with your H when she doesn't need him any longer. But he isn't convinced of that, apparently, and your patient is running thin about the finances. But....30 days! Wouldn't that be wonderful?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The thing is, your H can keep dragging this on for a long time, she will take every dime and every research input she can get from him... The gravy train's not going to end anytime soon...
Very interested in the techniques that Larry is teaching. Sounds very much like what I always thought from the gut, but then when I read up on exposing A's, etc., I figured I had not been educated enough on the subject. And as an AWAW, it still stung to think about "exposure".
Hi Sandi - it's been a WILD ride!
Larry DOESN'T advocate exposure - I exposed before I found him. His techniques focus more on getting to the root of the problem, fixing it, thus rendering the OP powerless and obsolete. We're not there YET, but I'm seeing progress every day.
In fact, something happened today that made me do a double-take.
There's a chapter in Steve Harvey's book "Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man" that really hit home for me: introductions. Harvey says that how a man introduces you reveals your position in his life. When he's in love with you, he's possessive and will introduce you as "My girlfriend", "My wife", "The Love of My Life", etc. When he's not in love with you, he'll introduce you by first name only.
I've been on a first name basis for a while now and usually have to add, "his wife." One time he stood and talked to a colleague for ten minutes with me by his side and never introduced us. When I chided him for it later, he said, "He doesn't need to know you." Nice, huh?
Today he was in a horse show. He didn't invite me to come, but he took the two younger children. I decided to go later and surprise him and had braced myself for seeing OW there, because last time he excluded me from something, it was because he'd invited her instead. She wasn't there, and he actually smiled when I strolled over to where he was standing, talking to another couple. "You made it! A, this is J and her father K, C's family. J and K, this is my wife, A." I smiled and said hello, but my mind was racing back to what Steve Harvey had said.
I decided not to read too much into it. Maybe he was just putting on a show for them. But no, whenever I stopped to chat with someone, many of whom I know from previous shows, he'd keep wandering back to check on me and join in the conversation. One couple with whom he works and who knows of our trouble kept exchanging "What in the world?!" looks between them. It was funny.
At one point, the man in that couple said something that made me laugh out loud. WH looked at me, startled. His expression said it all: he hadn't heard me laugh like that in a LONG time. That another man had been the reason for it was completely unacceptable. He then turned on the charm to ensure that HE got the last laugh from me, which he did. It was adorable.
The afternoon was easy and drama-free and as he helped with dinner (rare), he told me all about the things he has going on at work. It felt like old times. Bliss!
Originally Posted By: sandi2
So, I join the others in anticipation of all you are learning and sharing with us. I also agree that the student will be through with your H when she doesn't need him any longer. But he isn't convinced of that, apparently, and your patient is running thin about the finances. But....30 days! Wouldn't that be wonderful?
OW should be done in December, which is still 6 months too long at this point, LOL! The sooner she's gone, the better.
The finances ARE annoying right now, but this too shall pass. Once he's decided he's growled and stomped and asserted his authority long enough, things will become more agreeable. I know him - this is just too much work to keep up with, which is why it landed in my lap all those years ago.
As for StopYourDivorcein4weeks.com, I certainly feel like we've turned things around in the last 4 weeks! I had hoped this whole saga would be over and done with in 30 days, but that's NOT what Larry promised - he said he'd STOP the divorce, NOT deliver "happily ever after" in 30 days. I believe he's done that. I honestly don't think we're on the road to divorce any more.
We haven't reconciled, WH is still sleeping in the basement, but the tenor between has changed DRAMATICALLY. We're actually speaking civilly again instead of launching verbal pot shots at each other. I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells any more.
Yes, he's still doing things to annoy me, and yes, I have to get on here and rant and rave sometimes, but I have to remind myself that I'm taking this class ALONE. He's still in the MLC/OW fog and isn't looking to change. It's all up to me. So how much power does one person have? Well, given how far we've come in the last 30 days, I anticipate we'll actual CELEBRATE our anniversary on July 26th instead of avoiding it like we did last year.
Maybe I'm waxing poetic here, but it was a really, REALLY good day. Haven't felt this good in AGES! Let's see if we can keep it going...
The thing is, your H can keep dragging this on for a long time, she will take every dime and every research input she can get from him... The gravy train's not going to end anytime soon...
That's certainly possible, Allen, but I'm getting the impression all is not well between them. WH's acting confused more than anything. He looks like he's aged 10 years in the last 6 months.
I think he may have told everyone at work that we're done/through/kaput/history, and now he's having 2nd thoughts. If things work out between us as I'm hoping and he tells OW he's NOT leaving me, my guess is she'll throw a temper tantrum, he'll get turned off, and he'll show her the door quick enough.
They're two self-centered, volitale people who can both be all smiles and charm when they want something, and nasty and vindictive when they don't get it. Let's see who wins...
That's my hope is that this affair has run its course... SO a gentler approach may be enough... It's a lot easier to beat an affair once it's lost its luster...
Many here are dealing with affairs that are still red hot addictive... Yours I don't think this is the case...
If OW IS leaving in six months she may already be psychologically detaching in order to make her exit a smooth one...
I know you dont' want to hear this but she's not leaving the FIELD, just that university... There will be conferences etc... I think she knows she can't end things REALLY ugly with him or she is burning her bridges... And she's shrewd enough not to do that...
She may very well WANT him to want to come back and is manipulating him into thinking it will be HIS IDEA... That's my guess at this point... SHe has to figure out how to get rid of him now that she's almost done with him... Get rid of him in a way that does NOT do damage to her long term career...
-----------------
I am reading larry's approach and its looking more or less like MWD's, but with a lot more direct guidance and example... I don't doubt MWD's approach WILL WORK, BUT... Her approach is to WAIT OUT the affair... allow it to RUN its COURSE... I think that's awfully risky... Which is why I advocate ripping the band aid off in one fell swoop early on...
Exposure in your case hasn't been done yet... Not in my opinion, but I don't think it will be needed... From what I've been reading it looks like the affair will run its ugly course and you have the resilience to wait it out... Some people don't.. Or the risk is too great... I don't think there's a risk of OW running off with your Husband... I hoenstly don't think she wants him long term...
The affair was the most intense when I discovered it two years ago. They both made a half-hearted attempt to end it for about a month, then started back up again, albeit with lesser intensity. If I'd had the guts to PROPERLY expose it then, she would have been thrown out as she was at the very end of her timeline for presenting her dissertation proposal. She had 4 days left. If I had exposed it on the eve of the proposal, she would have shaken and failed and with no time left on the clock to try again, been told to leave. Hindsight's always 20/20.
I HAVE thought about future contact, and have decided that once she's been gone for a while, I'll show my husband some of the evidence I've collected, including an email where OW bragged about the attention WH was giving her, and the friend advised her to keep using my husband as much as possible. I'll also show him OW's police report, the one where she said she had no plans for a relationship with him regardless of his marital status. With her no longer here to lie and defend herself, that should put a damper on his future dealings with her.
As for "ripping off the bandaid", yes, that's ALWAYS the preferred method for the BS, because it gets the OP out of the picture asap. Very few BS's have that option, though. And the reality is, you can't FORCE someone to do something they don't want to do. THEY have to want to change and leave the affair, and most don't. That's why they go underground and prolong it, heightening the excitement.
Larry doesn't see the OP or the MLC as the problem. As painful as they are, they're symptoms of a BIGGER problem, which needs to be addressed before the WS will agree to change and give up OP.
You can't "flip a switch" and go back to "normal," because the status quo was only acceptable for one person in the relationship - the BS. That's why the WS is acting out. You can't ignore it. If you just resume what you were doing before, you open yourself up to the same kind of trouble down the road.
So, we're working on it.
I've always known my husband was selfish and self-centered, but prior to this saga, he was always good to me and I didn't have much to complain about. I've since learned that it's a result of his chaotic childhood, where he had to learn to do for himself or get plowed down. His brother's the same way. So are both of his parents, who also grew up in tumultous households.
For many years, I always gave him what he needed: time and space to do what he wanted, and plenty of strokes to his ego.
But when the kids came along and he wasn't the center of my universe anymore, the trouble began. We stopped communicating. I resented that he dumped all the childcare on me, he resented that he worked long hours and I didn't give him the time of day. A sad story, yet all too common. He was starved for attention when OW came along, and with her agenda, that was all it took.
These days, I'm working on giving him the attention he craves, in small, intense doses. I purposely have little interaction with him, but when I do, it's usually full of praise and compliments. It seems to be working, albeit slower than I'd like.
SR - I am a newbie who's been lurking on the sidelines, but I've followed your thread with great interest as I also did Larry's program and am trying to continue to understand how to live like an EC.
My story is very similar, but my WH has moved out, 2 months ago, to pursue his affair partner. Sadly, all too familiar. He's a chaos kid and we had the same thing happen, he was a workaholic for years and then I got totally wrapped up in the kids.
Anyway, he's in the mode of I still love you and want to always be your friend (no passion that was given to the OP) and will continue to take care of you and the kids.
My struggle is how to interact with him. I've tried to be warm, but distant. I share very little with him personally, just try to stick with talking about the kids.
I haven't been able to find anyone to connect with personally that's done Larry's program so I'm excited to see how things go for you. Larry's program brought me peace and sanity, although my husband still left. I accept what Larry says, it's not too late if you are sure about what you want and divorce has no meaning - it's just an event,so what. He's had countless people turn it around.
Obviously my prayer was for the affair to end and him to wake up. Larry has helped me learn that I can truly only change myself and through my contact with Larry I've gotten into self-improvement books. I've found them very helpful.
OK, I guess now that I've jumped in, should I post my story on the Newbie board? Thanks all. I've gotten alot from these boards. --------------------------- H - 47 W - 47 DD - 12 DD - 5 M 23.5 T 27 OW - 43 S - 4/17/10
--------------------------------- M 47, H 47 DD 5, DD 12 Married 23.5 years, T 27 years Separated 4/17/10 EA/PA - started probably about 3 years ago
Seeing Red. I have read your entire thread and am very interested in how using Larry's techniques will play out for you. I hope they work in your favor.
Me - Faithful wife H - WAH Bomb: Fall/2009 - PA/EA with OW for 1 year Both in our early 40's M - 16 years w/ no kids T - 21 years Separated since July of 2008 - H living with his mother
Making REALLY good progress with Larry's program - these last two days have been WONDERFUL! WH's helping with house stuff, interacting with kids, and even talking about things at work. I feel like I'm a time warp, circa 2004.
DD 10 said something a while ago that made me LOL, and I heard WH laugh as well. I said, "Did you hear that?" and he said, "No - just heard you laugh and had to laugh as well. Haven't heard it enough of late -- "
Thank you, Larry!
Speaking of whom, I'm enjoying my results 4 weeks into the program. Larry has you go through a series of exercises every day and record your progress 2x a week on a report card. He says when you get to 95%, you'll start to see changes in your spouse.
Guess what? Just recorded my score...and I'm at 96%! Woo-hoo! Happy dance.
I also just checked my online sales for the last 36 hours and am getting a FLOOD of traffic and sales from some search engine optimization work I did MONTHS ago. Yee-haw!
Better relationship AND better business all at the same time? I'm gobsmacked!
Please, Lord - let all the planets align in my favor and stay there for a good long while! I've been MUCH too long on the dark side of the moon --
JTC - I'm sorry the program isn't working as well for you. It IS much harder when he's out of the house. I would suggest just keeping each interaction with him light and happy for now, and try not to rag on him in front of your girls. My guess is he'll be back once the fantasy fizzles.
Check out WhatNow's thread over on MLC forum (I think the title is "MLCer or addicted infidel?") for more guidance on how to handle a spouse who's moved out. Hers has been gone since December and is now making noise like he wants to come back. She's doing an amazing job, given her situation.
BTW - did your husband move out before, during, or after you took Larry's course?
My WH moved out just as I finished the course. My situation does vary some from yours. My WH and married neighbor (former friend) started getting too close, without my knowledge or OW's H knowledge, probably 4 years ago and then he really "committed" to her (an EA) about a year and a half ago. OW had marriage probs and you know that rest of the story. Our families had become good friends, socialized together and even vacationed together.
OW left last summer and divorce to be final in July. My WH almost left when she did, but didn't want to make a mistake. So he "hung" in there and went for "therapy", but he never gave her up. I tried everything, Mort Fertel, etc., but I think the difference is that he'd already made up his mind and had given himself permission to pursue OW and no matter what I did it it didn't change his mind. He acknowledged that I'd made changes, but said basically it was too little, too late.
BTW, OW had an affair 5 years ago with another neighbor who is now divorced. However, my WH says that affair happened because she was just lonely but that her relationship with him is the real thing because they are soulmates and are so compatible, been through the ringer together, her bad marriage, her affair with the neighbor, her starting a new business, etc.
WH says we don't "dance" well together, we're not really compatible, I emotionally abandoned him about 5 years ago (I had a newborn at the time), he was just lonely, didn't mean to hurt me, blah, blah, blah. Pure textbook, you've heard it all before. I put him at the bottom of the pile. Similar to you in that we weren't working on us the way we should have been. I made mistakes, but I NEVER broke my vows and never stopped loving him. Pile on top of that the fact that he's a chaos kid and what a mess. As Larry told me, whether it was D (OW) or someone else, WH was programmed for this to happen. His father cheated on his mother and that's what he learned - Your wife is an annoyance, so do your own thing.
I struggle now with how to treat him. If I'm nice I feel he may think I approve of his choice. On many occasions, I've told him that he acts like I'm supposed to be happy that he's no longer in love with me and that he's found someone else, huh?
He's of the mindset that our relationship failed, but we had a lot of good years together and we both deserve to be "happy". If he stayed for the kids, we'd be modeling to them a "loveless" marriage. If he thought he could get "it" back, he would stay, but he doesn't see how to get "it" back. Well, that's because you gave "it" away when you broke your vows. Our kids will be fine as long as we stay friends and love each other. He still loves me and wants to be my good friend and help me in any way he can - he's just doesn't feel any passion for me.
So, I trying the cordial, but distant approach. I try to reach out more when "D" is around, but right now I would say that the person I see 99% of the time is C. So far the kids (her two) and mine don't know about them. I know it's coming. This weekend he met OW for dinner at Chic-Fil-A to pick up OW's DD. She's friends with my older DD. I discourage any connection with her, but he doesn't. He claims he's not going to introduce "them" any time soon, but I guess it's already begun. I can't believe that my DDs would EVER accept this. They liked the OW in the capacity in which they knew her before. Her now being WH's lover couldn't possibly go over well, could it? I didn't say much about this rendevous as I decided there's nothing I can do to stop it. I'm tying to stay Freddy free and on the wave.
Sometimes I think I'm crazy that I think this whole situation is immoral. Sadly my situation is so common, it's tragic. When does a person face consequences for their actions? Society is too much of the it's all about me and my personal happiness. Give me the pill that fixes everything. It's too hard to work at it. I'd much rather start all over again and ruin my kids than stay and make it work.
Ok, enough of my soapbox as I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I just have to figure out how to treat him and get on with my life but keep my goal alive for reconciliation some day. It is more challenging to keep the desire to stay committed as an EC in the face of a separated WH.
I don't know if this is a MLC, but I will check out that thread you mentioned. Thanks.
-------------------------- Me - 47 WH - 47 DD - 12 DD - 5 Married 23.5 years Together 27 years Separated - 4/17/10 OW - 46 EA and now PA affair started: 1/09/09
--------------------------------- M 47, H 47 DD 5, DD 12 Married 23.5 years, T 27 years Separated 4/17/10 EA/PA - started probably about 3 years ago
