My Universe, Unfolding...

[ImprovedRomeo]

CONS
- I'm not 100% sure what rent I can afford, esp depending on how much of child's daycare I have to pay. I'm working on figuring this out, but it's very complicated.
- I'll suddenly have no regular free childcare (I'm actually very lucky in that I get to go out pretty regularly to do stuff for me, and although it's a little like pulling teeth, H will stay home with child when I do- moving out makes that a lot harder).
- will shake up child sooner than we need to
- no custody, support, pet custody decided yet, and these may be hard to negotiate now, particularly any child support- H will balk and become nasty, I think.
- Hence, I probably won't have my child more than 50% of the time, which won't be good for me or my child. I don't think my child can go w/out seeing me fore more than a day.

Niki, I'm really sorry to say it but unfortunately this will happen sooner or later. I'm not advocating hurrying up if you don't want to but if he doesn't turn around this will need to be dealt with. Will he turn around and if he does will he be acceptable to you? those are two questions you need to think about...I mean really think about and know the answer for yourself.

- even though it's what he wants, H will probably be pissed if I go now - I don't need him meaner and more vindictive, we still have to negotiate.

His feelings are no longer your concern. His feelings are not your responsibility. I know you don't need him meaner but D makes even the nicest ones meaner. If it won't be your moving out it'll be that something that you would want and so will he. How far will you go to prevent his meaness? how long will you stand taking it? around here they say don't be a martyr.

- won't have A/C except in the living room, which right now is a problem. I'm home all day and don't tolerate the heat well.
- I have no furniture- this is hard to explain. In a few months, I'll have access to some that's now in storage, but most of it is too big for an apt. I have no bed, dresser, desk, etc. so would have to buy all of that before moving.

Niki, I know this all sucks but how will avoiding it for a few more months help? These are things that need to be dealt with. I will say that this won't be your life forever. Think of it as a phase, use the opportunity to declutter as I said before. Buy a portable air-conditioner $400 or a cheap window a/c unit for $150 if they let you install it. Furniture? I'll give you your own advice, craigslist! sell what you won't be needing, buy what will work for you. Yes a bit of a leg work but this will give you the strenght and confidence you need to know that you can survive on your own just fine! I know you'll be fine and I know it's hard for you to see it but knowing what I know about you you're more than capable of handling this. Sure you might need a pep talk or a suggestion and you'll get that from here and me when you want it!

- if I wait a little longer til I know more if I'll get any child support, it might open up some more possibilities in terms of what I can afford.
- I'll have to start paying a lot more with a new rent, sooner, when I could be saving money or paying off debt.

How long is little longer? is that little longer acceptable to you? Two have you talk to the Ls about this? Same about the custody arrangement. I think in your state like mine 50/50 is usually what the courts will go for unless one parent gives it up or there's a compelling case. Again check with the Ls. You could move out and file for temp support right off the bat.

- I am very sure that I will be obsessed with H's whereabouts and who he'd with if I couldn't keep an eye on him. There's no OW, I'm pretty sure, but my imagination runs wild already (with no proof of anything- I'm just like that) and I see him everyday.

This is probably one of the hardest things us LBS have to deal with, the good thing is he has no OW so far. I know for sure. So he hasn't left you for someone else. He does seem to have convinced himself that the grass is greener on the other side.

- I'm afraid it will "cement" the D process. No one has filed yet, but if I go, he may think that I'm 100% done and I'm not sure I want to send that message....

Well a lot of couples go through this and they are legally separated to give eachother 'space' to 'find themselves' etc. You could always pitch it that way if you think it'll be better: "H, I know you've been wanting D and I feel the env and our relationship is hurting. I know you're upset about certain things and I wish I could change how you feel. I've tried how I know but it hasn't seemed to make a difference. So, I've decided that it would be best if we lived separately for a little while to see if we can sort our own issues out first. Maybe we can learn to be happy ourselves and perhaps we can try again in the future? I would like DD to spend X no of days with me and Y no of days with you. I would also need some financial assistance so I can pay my bills on my own. I don't want us to be miserable with eachother and it hurts me to see you upset and angry. It's not good for any of us. I hope that you can understand"

Niki, you don't have to rush or do any of this if you don't want to but as I asked you before...at what point do you take action. Take control from him and lead the blind WAS? I know you're afraid of the unknown, financial worries are also huge, H seeing someone is another one...so ask yourself at what point do you say 'yes I accept all these things but living together this way is making things worse for us- I'm reacting to him and he's reacting to me. Is anyone at the wheel?'

(((hugs)))
PS. You know how to find me if you want my advice or just want to talk...

[par4me]

I got divorced and then got remarried to the same person so divorce doesn't have to be the end all. But divorce costs alot. If you are concerned about finances-you might want to look at other options before you do that.

[Nikita Belle]

Niki, I'm really sorry to say it but unfortunately this will happen sooner or later. I'm not advocating hurrying up if you don't want to but if he doesn't turn around this will need to be dealt with. Will he turn around and if he does will he be acceptable to you? those are two questions you need to think about...I mean really think about and know the answer for yourself.

R- you're right. I guess I'm fooling myself into thinking it will send the message of "I am done, I don't love you, I wouldn't want to work on anything, even if you changed your mind." I need to re-frame it as: "I'm not going to live this way anymore, I respect myself too much. If you feel like having a life with a mature, self-aware, self-respecting woman, you know where to find me."

Will he turn around? If I was a betting person, I'd bet that he would not. Maybe months from now he will be lonely and do a little thinking about this. He will return to his usual conclusion: it's Nikki's fault. He *may* have a revelation, but I'm afraid even if it happens, I will already have moved on and will not be interested anymore.

His feelings are no longer your concern. His feelings are not your responsibility. I know you don't need him meaner but D makes even the nicest ones meaner. If it won't be your moving out it'll be that something that you would want and so will he. How far will you go to prevent his meaness? how long will you stand taking it? around here they say don't be a martyr.

Ok R, you HAVE to laugh. If we'd read our own advice to each other, we'd have no need to ask someone else. Both of us are REALLY good at giving advice to the other and being very slow on the uptake in our own sitches. Priceless. Let's just keep hitting each other over the head and maybe we'll get it one of these days!

How long is little longer? is that little longer acceptable to you? Two have you talk to the Ls about this? Same about the custody arrangement. I think in your state like mine 50/50 is usually what the courts will go for unless one parent gives it up or there's a compelling case. Again check with the Ls. You could move out and file for temp support right off the bat.

Well, remember I have that hard stop in a few months, so it would be longer than a week but no more than a few months. No, I haven't talked to the Ls b/c I haven't hired one yet & we didn't agree on how we'd do it yet. I'm guessing traditional while trying to keep it as clean as possible. I know I'm not supposed to be afraid of him being pissed, but filing for temp support will do it.

Here's the thing: I'm very lucky to have some time on my side here. You know the details, I can't post them all here. I'm trying to use it wisely, to plan. So I check in with myself daily: is the time still an advantage to me? Am I using it wisely and getting productive stuff done to set things up for an independent life? Is the frustration outweighing the benefit I'm getting by staying a bit longer? And so far, the conclusion is for now, it benefits me/achieves my short-term goals to stay. But I'm asking the questions b/c I see it shifting towards it not being beneficial to being more harmful, so I'm trying to stay aware and make sure I'm staying for ME, to help me plan, etc. I will keep asking the question and staying aware until I know it's time. But I could go sooner- there's a gray area here time-wise. I'm not quite ready, logistics-wise, but probably will never be ready emotionally, so will have to jump ship and try to aim for a lifeboat. I'm a good swimmer.

This is probably one of the hardest things us LBS have to deal with, the good thing is he has no OW so far. I know for sure. So he hasn't left you for someone else. He does seem to have convinced himself that the grass is greener on the other side.

Yes, and I'm a little surprised he's not looking for what he says I don't give him. But he's a procrastinator and often waits for me to do stuff for him- maybe he's waiting for me to place his personal ad...

Well a lot of couples go through this and they are legally separated to give eachother 'space' to 'find themselves' etc. You could always pitch it that way if you think it'll be better: "H, I know you've been wanting D and I feel the env and our relationship is hurting. I know you're upset about certain things and I wish I could change how you feel. I've tried how I know but it hasn't seemed to make a difference. So, I've decided that it would be best if we lived separately for a little while to see if we can sort our own issues out first. Maybe we can learn to be happy ourselves and perhaps we can try again in the future? I would like DD to spend X no of days with me and Y no of days with you. I would also need some financial assistance so I can pay my bills on my own. I don't want us to be miserable with eachother and it hurts me to see you upset and angry. It's not good for any of us. I hope that you can understand"

Probably all but the part in bold. Part of me wants to say that too, but I don't think it'll make any difference and is a little bit pursuing...

Niki, you don't have to rush or do any of this if you don't want to but as I asked you before...at what point do you take action. Take control from him and lead the blind WAS? I know you're afraid of the unknown, financial worries are also huge, H seeing someone is another one...so ask yourself at what point do you say 'yes I accept all these things but living together this way is making things worse for us- I'm reacting to him and he's reacting to me. Is anyone at the wheel?'

Thanks. This is helpful and you're right with all your questions. You are the best--

[Nikita Belle]

I'm now having close friends tell me they want me out. So far, friends have been respectful and not tried to tell me what to do, but they're concerned about me. One told me today that there will definitely be someone out there for me who deserves me and will treat me the way I should be. That all sounds nice, but I'm not so sure....

And I realized today that the main thing stopping me from moving out right now is fear. It's been buried under a lot of other "reasons" (excuses?) like money, custody, my pets, etc. But I really saw and felt it for the first time today: I'm just terrified. Not necessarily of being on my own- I'm pretty independent and strong, always have been. Or even of being a single mom- though it will be very hard. But terrified of making that step- the one that says: "I'm moving out and I'm moving on. I'm choosing to separate from you and physically end our life together." To me it feels like the end of hope and the end of a major life chapter and it absolutely terrifies me to decide that, and not only close that chapter (which I can't undo), but lose him...

I can see people arguing one of several things: he already chose to end your M; he's already made it clear that this R is done; you're not closing the chapter, HE is. But it doesn't matter. I would be taking that action and I'm in huge fear of what it means, what it signifies. That our M is dead, I'm stating that I'm giving up, there's no hope (yes I know people have reconciled after moving out, but right now it feels like if I let go, it'll just be... gone. And I know him well enough to know that once he sets his mind to something or decides he feels a certain way, he rarely if ever admits he was wrong or changes his mind). And, like a lot of you, I fear that there might've been a possibility he'd change his mind, but with me gone, he'd never admit it.

I wish we had a situation where I could ask him to leave, but it's not possible in our sitch. It has to be me. And I can't think of any stronger statement about letting our future together go than moving out. Fear paralyzes us in so many ways... I started this thread with some quotes and have a few I wish I could fully absorb and live:

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."
— Helen Keller

"It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live."
-Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

I wish I knew what awaited on the other side of this leap.

[Nikita Belle]

It's a good time to list things I'm grateful for:

- I have a job and health benefits
- I have my child
- I'm pretty healthy
- I have a good support system
- I've got a pretty nice car that should be reliable for awhile
- I've got the DBers and alt friends to write to
- I'm not sinking into a depression right now
- I have - for now at least- a nice house to live in
- my child is doing fine so far
- I've got a life and activities outside the house
- I've acted with dignity and held myself to a higher standard of behavior throughout this, which I'll never regret.

[TulsaTime]

- if you moved out and kids are involved, did you agree on a temporary custody arrangement before you went? Did it form the basis of the permanent one? I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot by establishing something that may not work in the long-run. I've heard that legally, it's hard to change something that's established like that.


I think you should. I believe legal precedents can be set by what has been allowed.


- same question for temporary support- I *might* get a little child support, that's it. Do I ask for it now or will I still be able to get it later, even though I'll have been living on my own without it by then?


Same as above.


And, if anyone can help with these- here's some pros and cons to the moving now:

PROS for moving now
- I'll be doing it on my own schedule and be able to take my time moving, etc. if I start now, rather than hitting that hard stop.
- I'll be out of H's daily interactions
- I'm afraid if I don't move on one of the apts I found(not so great, but one of few that takes the pets) now, it will be gone in a month or two.
- child will have a pool for rest of summer and hanging out at a pool is also a good way to make new friends for her and me before the fall sets in

CONS
- I'm not 100% sure what rent I can afford, esp depending on how much of child's daycare I have to pay. I'm working on figuring this out, but it's very complicated.
- I'll suddenly have no regular free childcare (I'm actually very lucky in that I get to go out pretty regularly to do stuff for me, and although it's a little like pulling teeth, H will stay home with child when I do- moving out makes that a lot harder).
- will shake up child sooner than we need to
- no custody, support, pet custody decided yet, and these may be hard to negotiate now, particularly any child support- H will balk and become nasty, I think.
- Hence, I probably won't have my child more than 50% of the time, which won't be good for me or my child. I don't think my child can go w/out seeing me fore more than a day.
- even though it's what he wants, H will probably be pissed if I go now - I don't need him meaner and more vindictive, we still have to negotiate.
- won't have A/C except in the living room, which right now is a problem. I'm home all day and don't tolerate the heat well.
- I have no furniture- this is hard to explain. In a few months, I'll have access to some that's now in storage, but most of it is too big for an apt. I have no bed, dresser, desk, etc. so would have to buy all of that before moving.
- if I wait a little longer til I know more if I'll get any child support, it might open up some more possibilities in terms of what I can afford.
- I'll have to start paying a lot more with a new rent, sooner, when I could be saving money or paying off debt.
- I am very sure that I will be obsessed with H's whereabouts and who he'd with if I couldn't keep an eye on him. There's no OW, I'm pretty sure, but my imagination runs wild already (with no proof of anything- I'm just like that) and I see him everyday.
- I'm afraid it will "cement" the D process. No one has filed yet, but if I go, he may think that I'm 100% done and I'm not sure I want to send that message....

Looks like there are more cons, but a lot of them are going to be true no matter when I move. It's a question of whether life will be better or worse if I do it now and how much sooner, or for how much longer. Several friends are urging me to move out b/c they see how the interactions with H are affecting me daily, but it just seems like there are a lot of reasons not to do that before I have to...

Btw, I have an IC and discuss all this with that person regularly. I'm not in any danger, but it's getting me down a lot of days to live with him...

thanks for any input- [/quote]


You don't sound sure. Perhaps you should wait for more clarity. Caring for your child and providing for her should be a top priority.

[Nikita Belle]

Thanks TT. I'm sure I need to move out, just conflicted about the timing as you can see.

Definitely, caring for my child takes priority- in fact, she's a main reason I'm struggling with this decision. She'll be shaken up at some point no matter what, so I don't know if it matters if I do it sooner rather than later. And in terms of custody, I want to make sure we have something in place that is best for her, and that I choose an apartment that is in her best interests, too. Believe me, it'd be a lot simpler to just pick up and go if I didn't have a child! But thank god I have her.

[par4me]

There is always a sticking point of why not to go even in the most severe situations that really the person ought to be running away. You make your own decision, that is what you are suppose to do but so many of stayed because of the child. I did for awhile and she actually used the child against me to manipulate me like have the child call me when we were in a fight and stuff like that. I knew what she was doing. But everyone has different goals and reasons for the comman problem that we are having.

[TulsaTime]

Just to be clear, I'm only recommending getting your legal ducks in a row to protect yourself and your child, only you can decide when you should leave.

[par4me]

I agree with that statement. Fear is keeping me in my situation. Fear is an awfull, teriable feeling that does not help one bit.