They DON'T have a baby yet. They are TALKING and discussing and sharing their feelings and looking into having a baby.
This is how relationships go. Your goals change. This is how reconciliations go. People talk about whether they are going to keep the same house, or buy a new one. She is sharing her feelings...
I say.. LET HER SHARE her feeings. I have yet to see that it is a done deal that they are now having a baby and it is set in stone and she is using him... I say.. Let her open up and dream about it and he should be ALLOWING her to open up and and allow himself to be open to the same dreams.
Gooch,
You know I luv ya, man, and I am in FULL AGREEMENT with your general "you need to be a HAPPY MAN" advice that you've been giving OIN here. Real "4 Whistles" kinda stuff.
But this is NOT what you said the other day. You've changed your stance here. And besides, it's not a distinction that can be made when she's trying to get him to HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX WITH HER, now is it??
As an outsider though, from what I have read since the very start, it does seem (to me) that OIN's wife usually has an agenda (ex: the plastic surgery, the party, the baby).
Most all of us have agendas.
OIN's were (getting his wife back, getting to love him, changing so that she could see he had changed, going to counseling, DB'ing to save his marriage...)
We are all basically selfish when it comes down to it. The one trying to save the relationship is just as selfish.. "Don't divorce me, please work it out for me, please give me another chance" etc. etc.. The agenda is to get them back for YOU.. We use all sorts of excuses, but that is the bottom line.
Just because he's going to have sex with her doesn't mean he HAS to shoot for a new baby.
I'm not saying he is, DLS. I'm saying SHE is. She's on record with as much, and she's already gotten him to have unprotected sex with her, even though his own position is (and I'm paraphrasing, as I don't have the exact quote in front of me) he's "dead-set against it."
Puppy
In my sitch, I was "leg locked" at the time of orgasm. I was very good with the pull-out method over the year. Of course a baby was delivered at approximately 9 months after the first "leg lock"...
She wants a baby. Sex will be on her agenda more now.
Which is precisely why I still don't trust her motives.
Puppy
This is what I have been saying. I don't want to question my W's motives. I am indeed happy that my W does want to start a family with me but I am not sure if this is my W's way of making things better.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
The statement that struck me REALLY odd is OIN said he always had an excuse as to why they could not have a baby for years. His wife JUST turned 25 last week and they have only been married for 9 months. How many years has she been wanting a baby with you? If ya'll got together when she was 14 and you mentioned school being in the way it just seems strange to me (which I realize means jack crap!).
When my W was 19 and I was 21 I had asked my W to marry me. We set no date because my W was in college and I told her that we should at least wait until she graduated and settled in a career before we got married. This dragged out for a few years. W began to doubt if we would ever get married. After a while the thought (of getting married anytime soon),on my part, just faded.
During our 5 year engagement, W had brought up many times the thought about starting a family. I would tell W, after we get married (which would not happen until she finished up with school) and get a house and we both have steady jobs. Sounds reasonable I suppose. Then I started to tell W some terrible things such as "I don't want to have children" (which I did I was just saying to get to her) I would then tell her "I don't want to have children with you" , "You would make a terrible mother", "You have so many issues that our child would not be healthy so I don't want to have children with you"...I said these things to break her down while all along I actually did intend on starting a family with my W but looking back I couldn't see how she would want to start a family with someone like me who said those awful things to her.
Quote:
Also I haven't seen much remorse on her side for what had happened. She still seems to place the blame solely on OIN and from what's been seen here time and time again is that an apology must come from the WAS. If not, they may believe what they did was right and will end up doing it again.
I have read on this forum that remorse or an apology could take months or nearly a year from a WAS (We are only 1 week, 3 days from W saying she wants to try again). Would I like an apology? absolutely. Do I feel an apology is necessary in order to reconcile? no. If I waved that expectation over her head then we would never make progress. I will let her come to terms with what she did on her own.
==========================================
TODAY:
I return home form work this morning (6am) on my way home from work I pick me and my W up breakfast. I get home W is in bed, she waked up as I walk in the bedroom. I give W breakfast in best. W thanks me.
W and I have conversation about my night at work as we eat breakfast. Shortly after I lay down and try to get some sleep. W tells me she is going to take a shower, as she walks away I say "I will join you" W replies "It is going to take me a while to wash my hair" implying it is not best I join her. Usually takes W 20 minutes just to wash and treat her hair...I take no offense and just roll over and begin to fall to sleep.
Later on (not sure how later) W comes back to bed and falls to sleep. However long later, I wake up to the sound of W walking around the bedroom...W was unclothed. I reached out to touch W and she pulled back saying "please don't" I immediately retracted my arm and said "OK." My W made me feel as if I violated her, which I can see why she would feel uncomfortable. W continued to get ready and I too decided to get out of bed. W had to run to the bank, after a kiss and a hug W left.
W returned back home and we headed out the door. We headed to the mall to make a quick stop so W could pick up the makeup she ran out of. I held W's hand as we walked into the mall and as we walked around the mall.
W walked into a jewelry store (W collects these beads/charms by pandora that go on a bracelet) and W wanted to purchase a bead that was called "wedding cake" for her bracelet. We then headed out the mall. Once we got in the car, W pulled out the bead and said "there is room to get an engraving on the bottom" I said to W "You are right. Looks like there is a lot of room for an engraving"
W wanted to go to the book store to see if they had the parenting books which I sent to her in email a few days ago. W and I scanned through some books in the parenting section. We decided on two books. During this time I said to W "I am exciting about starting a family with you but it is in our best interest to work on our M first. Ideally we should try to conceive after the fall maybe early next year assuming things are better, we just need to take it one step at a time" W replied "I know this"
W and I then headed to gt some lunch. After lunch we headed out to the location of the concert we were attending (about 45 min drive). During the drive W and I talked about a wide range of things. W and I held hands at times and there were other times I would simply place my hand on her leg and she would then put her hand on top of mine.
W got to the concert site, outdoor venue. We found a spot to sit and then took a seat. Not much of a choice due to the venue being packed (free concert). We had some obnoxious people sit next to us. During the concert I placed arm around W, a few times she relaxed her head on my shoulder. Other times W rest her arm on my leg or held my hand.
The female sitting next to us became very annoying and started to aggravate my W. At one point the women lit a cigarette (my w has asthma and cannot stand the smoke) this had my W fuming but she bit her tongue. W then started to talk to herself out loud hoping the women would over hear. I said to W "We can just move" W became upset with me and said "We should not have to move I am not moving" W was upset with me as well. When we did leave, W explained to me why she was so upset and I agreed because the situation got me upset as well and then W said "I know she is a female but I always feel like you don't stick up for me, that I am always the one to blame"
That is very untrue, I always stuck up for W in the past but she would get upset because I would overreact as she would put it. In this instance it was a female (no excuse) and I thought that I spoke up it would had made the matter worse so I offered an alternate solution instead.... I did tell W this along with "...but you are right, I should had spoke up and stuck up for you as a husband should for his wife"
W just wanted to drop it and so we did. On the way home we talked and held hands, similar to the trip there. We agreed that when we got home we would look up hotels for our trip and select the 3 we like the most and go from there. Once we pulled in the driveway W and I briefly kissed, W stopped saying she was worried about the dog and just wanted to get in the house.
W wanted to pull out her work uniform for the morning, during this time I walked up from behind and hugged W and she said "I just want to find my uniform...." so I stopped and went about my business.
Once W got things situated, her and I went through the list of hotels and got our final few.
W got ready for bed and as she was doing so I got caught up on the posts in this thread. I said to W "before you go to bed can I talk to you about something?" W replied "If it is quick"
I said "The conversations we had along with the books we just purchased should be a great indication that I do want to start a family with you." Then I went on to say "During the past 7 months I have said to you that 'you don't get married and hope things get better, you make things better then get married. You don't buy a house and hope things get better, you make things better and by a house...I feel the same way about you getting pregnant, that having a baby and hoping things get better is not going to make thing better...we have to work on our marriage first, make things better before starting a family"
W replied "I know" then I said "I hope that you are just as committed than I am to working on our marriage" W said nothing in return...W laid down and turned her back on me...then looked over her should to see if I was still waiting on a response. W had a slight smirk on her face and so I said "I take it you are not going to respond?" W replied "No"
I then said "There are steps we need to take before starting a family." W replied "I know this I am not stupid, I know things have to improve before having children, I am not stupid I know this."
W said "we can talk about this tomorrow" and I replied ( I should not had said this but) "I have heard that from you for the past week and we have yet spoke about it" W then said "Forget, we won't work on anything then, forget everything" I then replied "Is that how you truly feel? then tell me" W just closed her eyes and shook her head... I walked out the room.
I blew it or I am very close to blowing it. When we assume a future and talk about starting a family we do great. When I push R/M talk on her she gets annoyed or won't talk at all.
We were doing great today and then I blew it....
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Also I haven't seen much remorse on her side for what had happened. She still seems to place the blame solely on OIN and from what's been seen here time and time again is that an apology must come from the WAS. If not, they may believe what they did was right and will end up doing it again.
Actually the blame is soley on OIN...
just ONE example here of how he treated his wife and suddenly now want her to love him back. He is LUCKY she didn't leave him years ago with talk like that. I certainly don't blame her for being cautious and think he is lucky she IS giving him a chance. No wonder she started to like someone else.
Quote:
Then I started to tell W some terrible things such as "I don't want to have children" (which I did I was just saying to get to her) I would then tell her "I don't want to have children with you" , "You would make a terrible mother", "You have so many issues that our child would not be healthy so I don't want to have children with you"...I said these things to break her down while all along I actually did intend on starting a family with my W but looking back I couldn't see how she would want to start a family with someone like me who said those awful things to her.
Totally unacceptatble behavior for a man who says he loves his wife. I wouldn't expect HER to have remorse for much of anything if he talked to her like that for ten years.
I blew it or I am very close to blowing it. When we assume a future and talk about starting a family we do great. When I push R/M talk on her she gets annoyed or won't talk at all.
We were doing great today and then I blew it....
Yes you did blow it. You allowed others on here to get you stirred up about this baby issue that is now getting blown out of proportion didn't you?
I WARNED you about these things.
BE A HAPPY MAN..
You again acted like a man who is insecure with who you are and a man looking for a woman to tell him over and over and over and over.."I love you, yes I love you, Yes I love you"
Very unattractive. No wonder she rolls her eyes and doesn't want to talk about it. It really is unattractive. Trust me on these things.
I return home form work this morning (6am) on my way home from work I pick me and my W up breakfast. I get home W is in bed, she waked up as I walk in the bedroom. I give W breakfast in best. W thanks me.
W and I have conversation about my night at work as we eat breakfast. Shortly after I lay down and try to get some sleep. W tells me she is going to take a shower, as she walks away I say "I will join you" W replies "It is going to take me a while to wash my hair" implying it is not best I join her. Usually takes W 20 minutes just to wash and treat her hair...I take no offense and just roll over and begin to fall to sleep.
Later on (not sure how later) W comes back to bed and falls to sleep. However long later, I wake up to the sound of W walking around the bedroom...W was unclothed. I reached out to touch W and she pulled back saying "please don't" I immediately retracted my arm and said "OK." My W made me feel as if I violated her, which I can see why she would feel uncomfortable. W continued to get ready and I too decided to get out of bed. W had to run to the bank, after a kiss and a hug W left.
W returned back home and we headed out the door. We headed to the mall to make a quick stop so W could pick up the makeup she ran out of. I held W's hand as we walked into the mall and as we walked around the mall.
W walked into a jewelry store (W collects these beads/charms by pandora that go on a bracelet) and W wanted to purchase a bead that was called "wedding cake" for her bracelet. We then headed out the mall. Once we got in the car, W pulled out the bead and said "there is room to get an engraving on the bottom" I said to W "You are right. Looks like there is a lot of room for an engraving"
W wanted to go to the book store to see if they had the parenting books which I sent to her in email a few days ago. W and I scanned through some books in the parenting section. We decided on two books. During this time I said to W "I am exciting about starting a family with you but it is in our best interest to work on our M first. Ideally we should try to conceive after the fall maybe early next year assuming things are better, we just need to take it one step at a time" W replied "I know this"
W and I then headed to gt some lunch. After lunch we headed out to the location of the concert we were attending (about 45 min drive). During the drive W and I talked about a wide range of things. W and I held hands at times and there were other times I would simply place my hand on her leg and she would then put her hand on top of mine.
W got to the concert site, outdoor venue. We found a spot to sit and then took a seat. Not much of a choice due to the venue being packed (free concert). We had some obnoxious people sit next to us. During the concert I placed arm around W, a few times she relaxed her head on my shoulder. Other times W rest her arm on my leg or held my hand.
The female sitting next to us became very annoying and started to aggravate my W. At one point the women lit a cigarette (my w has asthma and cannot stand the smoke) this had my W fuming but she bit her tongue. W then started to talk to herself out loud hoping the women would over hear. I said to W "We can just move" W became upset with me and said "We should not have to move I am not moving" W was upset with me as well. When we did leave, W explained to me why she was so upset and I agreed because the situation got me upset as well and then W said "I know she is a female but I always feel like you don't stick up for me, that I am always the one to blame"
That is very untrue, I always stuck up for W in the past but she would get upset because I would overreact as she would put it. In this instance it was a female (no excuse) and I thought that I spoke up it would had made the matter worse so I offered an alternate solution instead.... I did tell W this along with "...but you are right, I should had spoke up and stuck up for you as a husband should for his wife"
W just wanted to drop it and so we did. On the way home we talked and held hands, similar to the trip there. We agreed that when we got home we would look up hotels for our trip and select the 3 we like the most and go from there. Once we pulled in the driveway W and I briefly kissed, W stopped saying she was worried about the dog and just wanted to get in the house.
W wanted to pull out her work uniform for the morning, during this time I walked up from behind and hugged W and she said "I just want to find my uniform...." so I stopped and went about my business.
Once W got things situated, her and I went through the list of hotels and got our final few.
W got ready for bed and as she was doing so I got caught up on the posts in this thread. I said to W "before you go to bed can I talk to you about something?" W replied "If it is quick"
I said "The conversations we had along with the books we just purchased should be a great indication that I do want to start a family with you." Then I went on to say "During the past 7 months I have said to you that 'you don't get married and hope things get better, you make things better then get married. You don't buy a house and hope things get better, you make things better and by a house...I feel the same way about you getting pregnant, that having a baby and hoping things get better is not going to make thing better...we have to work on our marriage first, make things better before starting a family"
W replied "I know" then I said "I hope that you are just as committed than I am to working on our marriage" W said nothing in return...W laid down and turned her back on me...then looked over her should to see if I was still waiting on a response. W had a slight smirk on her face and so I said "I take it you are not going to respond?" W replied "No"
I then said "There are steps we need to take before starting a family." W replied "I know this I am not stupid, I know things have to improve before having children, I am not stupid I know this."
W said "we can talk about this tomorrow" and I replied ( I should not had said this but) "I have heard that from you for the past week and we have yet spoke about it" W then said "Forget, we won't work on anything then, forget everything" I then replied "Is that how you truly feel? then tell me" W just closed her eyes and shook her head... I walked out the room.
I blew it or I am very close to blowing it. When we assume a future and talk about starting a family we do great. When I push R/M talk on her she gets annoyed or won't talk at all.
We were doing great today and then I blew it....
OIN, I highlighted all of the places you pursued her, begged for affection and started R talks. Do you think she thought it was a great day?
She has told you she's trying to work on the M, but if you keep pushing her for more than she can give you right now, you are going to run her off.
Several times during the day, she asked for space or the chance to go to a neutral corner, but you kept pushing her until she snapped.
I took a long time to break this. You're not going to fix this in one day.
Lighten up, enjoy your time with her, give her some space, keep your mouth closed and your ears open, and JUST BREATHE.
That is exactly what happened. It is more begging than pursuing. You are sometimes begging for her to love you back...
I will AGAIN tell you your issue here..
You are NEVER satisfied or happy. Never satisfied "just the way things are"... This has been going on for over ten years. You have made many nice changes, but the one I keep telling you is crucial to you, you keep right on glossing over and then going right back to not being satisfied. This is why she has felt for so long that nothing she does is good enough.
Why? BECAUSE IT ISN'T to you. Never is. Now her wanting a baby is turning into you PREACHING" to her about "we need" (notice that you did NOT say to her. "I feel or I think or in my opinion"..) no you said "we need to or we should or we shouldn't etc. etc..)
Quote:
...we have to work on our marriage first, make things better before starting a family"
wrong way to communicate....."we HAVE to"... (she doesn't HAVE to do anything.)
No matter what you want to believe and no matter anything else... You are going to get farther ahead by ALLOWING her to have thoughts, feelings and opinions of her own. AND WELCOME them... She should not be saying to you.. " I know that, I am not stupid"... That is her telling you that she feels you are preaching or talking down to her or telling her you know more about the subject than she does, it tells her you KNOW that she hasn't thought of these things.
It is communication like this that doesn't work. Don't do what doesn't work. Do what WORKS.
