That is exactly what happened. It is more begging than pursuing. You are sometimes begging for her to love you back...
I will AGAIN tell you your issue here..
You are NEVER satisfied or happy. Never satisfied "just the way things are"... This has been going on for over ten years. You have made many nice changes, but the one I keep telling you is crucial to you, you keep right on glossing over and then going right back to not being satisfied. This is why she has felt for so long that nothing she does is good enough.
Why? BECAUSE IT ISN'T to you. Never is. Now her wanting a baby is turning into you PREACHING" to her about "we need" (notice that you did NOT say to her. "I feel or I think or in my opinion"..) no you said "we need to or we should or we shouldn't etc. etc..)
Quote:
...we have to work on our marriage first, make things better before starting a family"
wrong way to communicate....."we HAVE to"... (she doesn't HAVE to do anything.)
No matter what you want to believe and no matter anything else... You are going to get farther ahead by ALLOWING her to have thoughts, feelings and opinions of her own. AND WELCOME them... She should not be saying to you.. " I know that, I am not stupid"... That is her telling you that she feels you are preaching or talking down to her or telling her you know more about the subject than she does, it tells her you KNOW that she hasn't thought of these things.
It is communication like this that doesn't work. Don't do what doesn't work. Do what WORKS.
I return home form work this morning (6am) on my way home from work I pick me and my W up breakfast. I get home W is in bed, she waked up as I walk in the bedroom. I give W breakfast in best. W thanks me.
W and I have conversation about my night at work as we eat breakfast. Shortly after I lay down and try to get some sleep. W tells me she is going to take a shower, as she walks away I say "I will join you" W replies "It is going to take me a while to wash my hair" implying it is not best I join her. Usually takes W 20 minutes just to wash and treat her hair...I take no offense and just roll over and begin to fall to sleep.
Later on (not sure how later) W comes back to bed and falls to sleep. However long later, I wake up to the sound of W walking around the bedroom...W was unclothed. I reached out to touch W and she pulled back saying "please don't" I immediately retracted my arm and said "OK." My W made me feel as if I violated her, which I can see why she would feel uncomfortable. W continued to get ready and I too decided to get out of bed. W had to run to the bank, after a kiss and a hug W left.
W returned back home and we headed out the door. We headed to the mall to make a quick stop so W could pick up the makeup she ran out of. I held W's hand as we walked into the mall and as we walked around the mall.
W walked into a jewelry store (W collects these beads/charms by pandora that go on a bracelet) and W wanted to purchase a bead that was called "wedding cake" for her bracelet. We then headed out the mall. Once we got in the car, W pulled out the bead and said "there is room to get an engraving on the bottom" I said to W "You are right. Looks like there is a lot of room for an engraving"
W wanted to go to the book store to see if they had the parenting books which I sent to her in email a few days ago. W and I scanned through some books in the parenting section. We decided on two books. During this time I said to W "I am exciting about starting a family with you but it is in our best interest to work on our M first. Ideally we should try to conceive after the fall maybe early next year assuming things are better, we just need to take it one step at a time" W replied "I know this"
W and I then headed to gt some lunch. After lunch we headed out to the location of the concert we were attending (about 45 min drive). During the drive W and I talked about a wide range of things. W and I held hands at times and there were other times I would simply place my hand on her leg and she would then put her hand on top of mine.
W got to the concert site, outdoor venue. We found a spot to sit and then took a seat. Not much of a choice due to the venue being packed (free concert). We had some obnoxious people sit next to us. During the concert I placed arm around W, a few times she relaxed her head on my shoulder. Other times W rest her arm on my leg or held my hand.
The female sitting next to us became very annoying and started to aggravate my W. At one point the women lit a cigarette (my w has asthma and cannot stand the smoke) this had my W fuming but she bit her tongue. W then started to talk to herself out loud hoping the women would over hear. I said to W "We can just move" W became upset with me and said "We should not have to move I am not moving" W was upset with me as well. When we did leave, W explained to me why she was so upset and I agreed because the situation got me upset as well and then W said "I know she is a female but I always feel like you don't stick up for me, that I am always the one to blame"
That is very untrue, I always stuck up for W in the past but she would get upset because I would overreact as she would put it. In this instance it was a female (no excuse) and I thought that I spoke up it would had made the matter worse so I offered an alternate solution instead.... I did tell W this along with "...but you are right, I should had spoke up and stuck up for you as a husband should for his wife"
W just wanted to drop it and so we did. On the way home we talked and held hands, similar to the trip there. We agreed that when we got home we would look up hotels for our trip and select the 3 we like the most and go from there. Once we pulled in the driveway W and I briefly kissed, W stopped saying she was worried about the dog and just wanted to get in the house.
W wanted to pull out her work uniform for the morning, during this time I walked up from behind and hugged W and she said "I just want to find my uniform...." so I stopped and went about my business.
Once W got things situated, her and I went through the list of hotels and got our final few.
W got ready for bed and as she was doing so I got caught up on the posts in this thread. I said to W "before you go to bed can I talk to you about something?" W replied "If it is quick"
I said "The conversations we had along with the books we just purchased should be a great indication that I do want to start a family with you." Then I went on to say "During the past 7 months I have said to you that 'you don't get married and hope things get better, you make things better then get married. You don't buy a house and hope things get better, you make things better and by a house...I feel the same way about you getting pregnant, that having a baby and hoping things get better is not going to make thing better...we have to work on our marriage first, make things better before starting a family"
W replied "I know" then I said "I hope that you are just as committed than I am to working on our marriage" W said nothing in return...W laid down and turned her back on me...then looked over her should to see if I was still waiting on a response. W had a slight smirk on her face and so I said "I take it you are not going to respond?" W replied "No"
I then said "There are steps we need to take before starting a family." W replied "I know this I am not stupid, I know things have to improve before having children, I am not stupid I know this."
W said "we can talk about this tomorrow" and I replied ( I should not had said this but) "I have heard that from you for the past week and we have yet spoke about it" W then said "Forget, we won't work on anything then, forget everything" I then replied "Is that how you truly feel? then tell me" W just closed her eyes and shook her head... I walked out the room.
I blew it or I am very close to blowing it. When we assume a future and talk about starting a family we do great. When I push R/M talk on her she gets annoyed or won't talk at all.
We were doing great today and then I blew it....
OIN, I highlighted all of the places you pursued her, begged for affection and started R talks. Do you think she thought it was a great day?
She has told you she's trying to work on the M, but if you keep pushing her for more than she can give you right now, you are going to run her off.
Several times during the day, she asked for space or the chance to go to a neutral corner, but you kept pushing her until she snapped.
I took a long time to break this. You're not going to fix this in one day.
Lighten up, enjoy your time with her, give her some space, keep your mouth closed and your ears open, and JUST BREATHE.
I think the thoughts of her visualizing the baby and the family is a good one. However like the others, right now is not exactly the time to be TRYING to have the baby. I don't know how far I would discuss it with her, but my belief is with more intimacy her viewpoint of OIN will change. She will start equating him more with safety, feeling happy and love.
I will state the same thought I did some time ago... IMO you and your W spend way too much time together. I understand you both work odd schedules (as in not a 9-5 type job) but other than work or personal errands the two of you have NO space! You never get to recharge and just take a step back.
One thing you might really consider practicing is using "I" statements. That was a biggie for me but it is helpful!
I blew it or I am very close to blowing it. When we assume a future and talk about starting a family we do great. When I push R/M talk on her she gets annoyed or won't talk at all.
We were doing great today and then I blew it....
Yes you did blow it. You allowed others on here to get you stirred up about this baby issue that is now getting blown out of proportion didn't you?
I WARNED you about these things.
BE A HAPPY MAN..
You again acted like a man who is insecure with who you are and a man looking for a woman to tell him over and over and over and over.."I love you, yes I love you, Yes I love you"
Very unattractive. No wonder she rolls her eyes and doesn't want to talk about it. It really is unattractive. Trust me on these things.
That is the thing, I am being a happy person. When we talk I am upbeat and excited. I am not longer looking for W to say ILY as affirmation What you all said made a lot of sense.
Here is my ISSUE.
1 day before W decided she wanted to work on our marriage (July 9th) W had said to me that she had felt vulnerable for a long time but did and said the things she did as a way to protect herself. UNDERSTANDABLE...
BUT then W went on to say "I had a plan to getting married and having children/start a family at a young age. You know I like to plan things out, so to start all over with someone else is something I don't know if I can do."
This is true, W does like to plan things out way ahead of time which means if we separated and then divorce, W met someone new, married then had children it would be a while and so W decided maybe it is just best she just stick it out and continue with her original plan.
This IS where I get weary that her intentions behind having a child are more of a 'plan'.
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Nowhere did I recommend that OIN initiate negative conversations with his wife. All I said was not to have unprotected sex with her.
There's a saying here in the South, that you always have to tell the truth, but you don't have to go around telling it.
Puppy
However we did.
Originally Posted By: eeyore_no_more
Originally Posted By: OfficerInNeed
TODAY:
I return home form work this morning (6am) on my way home from work I pick me and my W up breakfast. I get home W is in bed, she waked up as I walk in the bedroom. I give W breakfast in best. W thanks me.
W and I have conversation about my night at work as we eat breakfast. Shortly after I lay down and try to get some sleep. W tells me she is going to take a shower, as she walks away I say "I will join you" W replies "It is going to take me a while to wash my hair" implying it is not best I join her. Usually takes W 20 minutes just to wash and treat her hair...I take no offense and just roll over and begin to fall to sleep.
Later on (not sure how later) W comes back to bed and falls to sleep. However long later, I wake up to the sound of W walking around the bedroom...W was unclothed. I reached out to touch W and she pulled back saying "please don't" I immediately retracted my arm and said "OK." My W made me feel as if I violated her, which I can see why she would feel uncomfortable. W continued to get ready and I too decided to get out of bed. W had to run to the bank, after a kiss and a hug W left.
W returned back home and we headed out the door. We headed to the mall to make a quick stop so W could pick up the makeup she ran out of. I held W's hand as we walked into the mall and as we walked around the mall.
W walked into a jewelry store (W collects these beads/charms by pandora that go on a bracelet) and W wanted to purchase a bead that was called "wedding cake" for her bracelet. We then headed out the mall. Once we got in the car, W pulled out the bead and said "there is room to get an engraving on the bottom" I said to W "You are right. Looks like there is a lot of room for an engraving"
W wanted to go to the book store to see if they had the parenting books which I sent to her in email a few days ago. W and I scanned through some books in the parenting section. We decided on two books. During this time I said to W "I am exciting about starting a family with you but it is in our best interest to work on our M first. Ideally we should try to conceive after the fall maybe early next year assuming things are better, we just need to take it one step at a time" W replied "I know this"
W and I then headed to gt some lunch. After lunch we headed out to the location of the concert we were attending (about 45 min drive). During the drive W and I talked about a wide range of things. W and I held hands at times and there were other times I would simply place my hand on her leg and she would then put her hand on top of mine.
W got to the concert site, outdoor venue. We found a spot to sit and then took a seat. Not much of a choice due to the venue being packed (free concert). We had some obnoxious people sit next to us. During the concert I placed arm around W, a few times she relaxed her head on my shoulder. Other times W rest her arm on my leg or held my hand.
The female sitting next to us became very annoying and started to aggravate my W. At one point the women lit a cigarette (my w has asthma and cannot stand the smoke) this had my W fuming but she bit her tongue. W then started to talk to herself out loud hoping the women would over hear. I said to W "We can just move" W became upset with me and said "We should not have to move I am not moving" W was upset with me as well. When we did leave, W explained to me why she was so upset and I agreed because the situation got me upset as well and then W said "I know she is a female but I always feel like you don't stick up for me, that I am always the one to blame"
That is very untrue, I always stuck up for W in the past but she would get upset because I would overreact as she would put it. In this instance it was a female (no excuse) and I thought that I spoke up it would had made the matter worse so I offered an alternate solution instead.... I did tell W this along with "...but you are right, I should had spoke up and stuck up for you as a husband should for his wife"
W just wanted to drop it and so we did. On the way home we talked and held hands, similar to the trip there. We agreed that when we got home we would look up hotels for our trip and select the 3 we like the most and go from there. Once we pulled in the driveway W and I briefly kissed, W stopped saying she was worried about the dog and just wanted to get in the house.
W wanted to pull out her work uniform for the morning, during this time I walked up from behind and hugged W and she said "I just want to find my uniform...." so I stopped and went about my business.
Once W got things situated, her and I went through the list of hotels and got our final few.
W got ready for bed and as she was doing so I got caught up on the posts in this thread. I said to W "before you go to bed can I talk to you about something?" W replied "If it is quick"
I said "The conversations we had along with the books we just purchased should be a great indication that I do want to start a family with you." Then I went on to say "During the past 7 months I have said to you that 'you don't get married and hope things get better, you make things better then get married. You don't buy a house and hope things get better, you make things better and by a house...I feel the same way about you getting pregnant, that having a baby and hoping things get better is not going to make thing better...we have to work on our marriage first, make things better before starting a family"
W replied "I know" then I said "I hope that you are just as committed than I am to working on our marriage" W said nothing in return...W laid down and turned her back on me...then looked over her should to see if I was still waiting on a response. W had a slight smirk on her face and so I said "I take it you are not going to respond?" W replied "No"
I then said "There are steps we need to take before starting a family." W replied "I know this I am not stupid, I know things have to improve before having children, I am not stupid I know this."
W said "we can talk about this tomorrow" and I replied ( I should not had said this but) "I have heard that from you for the past week and we have yet spoke about it" W then said "Forget, we won't work on anything then, forget everything" I then replied "Is that how you truly feel? then tell me" W just closed her eyes and shook her head... I walked out the room.
I blew it or I am very close to blowing it. When we assume a future and talk about starting a family we do great. When I push R/M talk on her she gets annoyed or won't talk at all.
We were doing great today and then I blew it....
OIN, I highlighted all of the places you pursued her, begged for affection and started R talks. Do you think she thought it was a great day?
She has told you she's trying to work on the M, but if you keep pushing her for more than she can give you right now, you are going to run her off.
Several times during the day, she asked for space or the chance to go to a neutral corner, but you kept pushing her until she snapped.
I took a long time to break this. You're not going to fix this in one day.
Lighten up, enjoy your time with her, give her some space, keep your mouth closed and your ears open, and JUST BREATHE.
I agree with you. I should not had made such comments toward W as she was going shower or attempted to touch her during that time...I should not had initiated any R talk either.
I do not agree that I should NOT be hold my W's hand or putting my arm around her ect... My W welcomes this behavior so why should I stop? If she were to pull away or tell me she did not want me to do these things I would stop, however, W is not objecting and reciprocates.
Quote:
One thing you might really consider practicing is using "I" statements. That was a biggie for me but it is helpful!
Will do. I just thought,and I was mistaken, that saying WE was productive. I will stop.
Here is concern at this point. W and I have already engaged in unprotected sex, I am not being ignorant in any way, but there is a possibility she may already be...and then again she may not, time will tell.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
"I am being a happy person. When we talk I am upbeat and excited. I am not longer looking for W to say ILY as affirmation"
Contradicting yourself here.
Point is you've got to know when to stop when it comes to communicating and thinking before acting. Talking too much gets you in trouble time and time again.
Are you still having sex? It's not all that hard to pick-up a box of condoms if you're uncomfortable with her getting pregnant now.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Quote: Then I started to tell W some terrible things such as "I don't want to have children" (which I did I was just saying to get to her) I would then tell her "I don't want to have children with you" , "You would make a terrible mother", "You have so many issues that our child would not be healthy so I don't want to have children with you"...I said these things to break her down while all along I actually did intend on starting a family with my W but looking back I couldn't see how she would want to start a family with someone like me who said those awful things to her.
Totally unacceptatble behavior for a man who says he loves his wife. I wouldn't expect HER to have remorse for much of anything if he talked to her like that for ten years.
oin: i can't believe those words came out of your mouth. take it from someone who was on the receiving end of those words. it hurts big time.
"I am being a happy person. When we talk I am upbeat and excited. I am not longer looking for W to say ILY as affirmation"
Contradicting yourself here.
Point is you've got to know when to stop when it comes to communicating and thinking before acting. Talking too much gets you in trouble time and time again.
Are you still having sex? It's not all that hard to pick-up a box of condoms if you're uncomfortable with her getting pregnant now.
I am not quite sure how I am contradicting myself... I once thought I needed to hear the words ILY to know she did, members of this forum have opened my eyes to pick up on other indicators that she does.
We had sex twice (total). The time I mentioned and once again a couple days following. I learned after the second time that W has the expectation that if we had sex it were to be unprotected (something I am not agreeable to). I since then have not initiated anything and neither has she.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Quote: Then I started to tell W some terrible things such as "I don't want to have children" (which I did I was just saying to get to her) I would then tell her "I don't want to have children with you" , "You would make a terrible mother", "You have so many issues that our child would not be healthy so I don't want to have children with you"...I said these things to break her down while all along I actually did intend on starting a family with my W but looking back I couldn't see how she would want to start a family with someone like me who said those awful things to her.
Totally unacceptatble behavior for a man who says he loves his wife. I wouldn't expect HER to have remorse for much of anything if he talked to her like that for ten years.
oin: i can't believe those words came out of your mouth. take it from someone who was on the receiving end of those words. it hurts big time.
Unfortunately they did. I regret every word.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
