Thank you for the reply. All very insightful. Reading what you wrote made me very scared too.
You are right. Logical thinking IS an engineers thing. H tells me that all the time.My dad was an engineer too, you'd think I 'd know how to communicate positively with H since I grew up with this type of person.
I agree with you- H thinks this is all my "fault", and his solution is for me to be gone. He told me when he dropped the bomb, that he doesn't want to talk about who did what, and discuss blame. H stated he wants to stay on a path that leads to splitting up.
I am doing the last resort, the 180. I am being calm, pleasant, not talking much, being positive, not being angry, not being emotional, being agreeable, etc. I am doing everything opposite from what I had been doing. I believe all this has H thinking, " we can split as friends". But, with that said, DB will help me keep it together, no matter the outcome.
I can see H has noticed the changes in me and is curious. H asked me if I wanted to make breakfast with him today. Usually we go our separate ways for meals in the house. In spite of a bit of softening on H's part, I am not allowing myself to get hopeful. I firmly believe H and I are done, in his eyes for sure. I am keeping an open mind.
H's daughter will be here over Christmas so H will surely want me gone before then unless a miracle happens.
H is putting together financial spreadsheets, etc. All very businesslike. No emotions that I see, but maybe underneath that aloof, cold exterior there are deep emotions. How do engineers deal with their emotions??
I am also an engineer. While many of the attributes you and John28 mention are usual for engineers, especially senior engineers, there are others that work in your favor.
Ordinarrilly, we tend to be highly creative and are accostomed to thinking out of the box (assuming he was good at engineering). We are naturally inquisitive and are usually more interested in the how's and why's than most people. Also, it's been my experience that when presented by either evidence or a logical argument that our intended course is not going to be the BEST solution, we are typically quicker and more willing to adapt than the other proffesionals we work with.
Furthermore, our vanities tend to be tied to what we can accomplish with our minds and in the scope of our knowlege. I.e. We love to be asked to fix things. Especially when there's a tough problem to overcome.
Now, as to feelings, I am not a typical engineer. I don't hide mine behind a wall. And like John28, am a decent communicator. If your H is not gifted in these ways it might make it tougher to judge your progress. But that doesn't mean it's Impossible.
If you can get him interested in overcoming obsticles together, however mundane, it will probably piqué his interest. This is probably why he's noticing your changes and is curious about them. Keep working and stay open to different things. Be prepered to keep him guessing and playing mental gymnastics. He might start enjoying the challenge offiguring the new you out.
Don't get me wrong, it might not go the way you want, but there's a chance that you become more attractive to him by keeping his mind active and little by little, he loses his interest in D because there is a better solution right in front of him. At least, in the mean time, you are working on you and either way, you end up better and stronger for it.
Good luck.
ADAPT. OVERCOME. IMPROVISE. -Tom Highway
Me: 43 W: 40 S12 & S9 Married 17yrs Together 20yrs
Hi S - I have been going down the Divorce Remedy road a few weeks now. I've seen very positive results from my H. If you find my thread, you'll see he actually hired a lawyer and had them send me a little (with no warning) that he wanted to end the M. At first I argued, cried, reasoned and none of it helped. My H is an engineer too (liked the posts from the guys btw). THen I found DR and this wonderful site. REad the quotes threads - they helped me tremendously. Within 10 days of doing 180s, detaching respectfully, agreeing, validating, apologizing (even though obviously it takes two to mess up a M) I saw some positive signs. Not out of the woods as the lawyer is still lurking and I have had a couple days where I've had to dig deep and decide if this is in fact what I want after years of rockiness, detachment, etc.
THe best thing about DR is you will start feeling better about YOU. You will find YOU again and not the angry, annoyed person your M created.
I told my H and I meant it that I didn't want to go back to the way things were either, so either we work hard to make it better or we end it. BUt at least at the end of the road I will know I did everything I could and was the best I could be.
He: WAH Me: LBW Precious: DD
~ I'm grateful for every day I have to improve the way I relate.
H was a very good senior engineer, retired now for 4 years.H likes intellectual conversations and lately we have been having some of these.
Yesterday was H's birthday-I did nothing but say HB. H told me no gifts ( I hadn't planned on getting him one anyway), and so I only said HB. Yesterday, he asked me if I wanted to go to lunch or early dinner.I was surprised to say the least.Lunch went well. I still feel His relieved we are more like friends as he will have easier time splitting up. I don't think he is changing his mind about splitting up. I realize second guessing is not positive so I shall not dwell on that scenario.
I can see H is very wary of my changes. I keep on doing the 180 no matter what. In the end I will benefit from this even if H and I split as scheduled in November. H will be bringing up seeing a lawyer tomorrow , we have weekly meetings, at his request. H is pretty closed emotionally, however this might be due to my old way of pursuing , looking for responses, etc.
Honestly I think H and I have never really been the real us since we married!
Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will take all you said to heart, I will keep doing the 180 and hope for the best.
It helps to hear from engineers and women married to them. Engineers are a different breed!
I am glad things are moving forward for you.
I realize my mistakes in the M. I am owning them and am taking steps to be the best Susan I can be no matter what the outcome.
H is skeptical of my changes- I have not said anything about changing to me, I am just changing. H is a show me type, actions not words. I am just reading DB, and doing the 180. If I were H, I would be wary too. I have said so many times over the years I will change, etc, as has H. I realize now, I never really knew what I was talking about or how to actually change until DB came along.
You raised a good point-some days I think I would be better off split from H. I still struggle with anger towards him as he (I am assuming here which isn't good) still blames me for all the M mess. Then I flipflop and think we never really had a chance to have a good M until I found DB, that implementing what I have now learned into our M could "save" us and we could grow and flourish as people and as a couple.
Am I just being wishful????
Anyway, have a great day and thanks so much for your support.
Susan - to get past the anger you have to forgive your H. Not for him but for you. Let go of the past. Concentrate on now and see how the future unfolds. Be the best you can be NOW.
My DD is 5, and I didn't want her world torn apart. I didn't want my family torn apart. As distant and as detached as we were, I knew we hadn't tried our best. H admitted he hadn't been trying. Neither had I. He has slowly started to meet my needs. We aren't having discussions yet about the M, the lawyer, the future, but I am okay with focusing on today. I am encouraged by the R that has developed since I started using the Divorce Remedy tools.
Being single is hard (did that for a long time). Being married is hard. There are advantages to each. Some days I think my problems are caused because my H still feels a struggle at times between wanting that carefree, minimal responsibility life v. being married with kids and limited freedom and lots of responsibility.
Can you guess how badly I want to ask what he's going to do about the lawyer??! I am holding out as long as I can - and then holding out longer. It helps to focus on my goal - which is to find out if the best this R can be is good enough.
He: WAH Me: LBW Precious: DD
~ I'm grateful for every day I have to improve the way I relate.
S1S, Even though your H is a engineer this is a battle over how he feels. You need to change how he feels about you. What will he be losing?
Quote:
H will be bringing up seeing a lawyer tomorrow
Agree with him, he needs to see a lawyer because you have been doing some thinking and
Quote:
Honestly I think H and I have never really been the real us since we married!
This just isn't working for you either. You respect him and yourself enough to be your true selves. Then let him know you are going to go see a lawyer if he does to protect yourself. Be calm, cool and collected. He can't argue if you agree with him.
Now just imagine how is he going to feel after that conversation? Put yourself in his shoes. It's kind of sexy isn't it?
You can handle it.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Thank you for the insight. I have been reading alot of your posts. You are very insightful and helpful to us struggling souls.
A battle over how H feels? Yes, it is that. Although H doesn't "appear " to "feel" much, appears to be in the very cut and dried engineer mindset. H is and always has been, a very aloof man, doesn't show his feelings easily. Very self contained. Rarely gets angry, just becomes colder. Not sure how he is feeling, sad somewhat I can tell. H is curious about my "happy face" and positivity. I can tell H is relieved too. No fighting means to him we can split as friends- if we split as friends, there won't be the messiness this time like he had in previous end of first M.
Your point, "What will H be losing". Hmmmm... I need to continue to show him the "real" me, the one who isn't angry, upset, yelling, argumentative, hurt, etc. The DB and 180 is helping me do that. I am very afraid of saying the wrong thing so I keep to myself alot while H and I are home together. Any tips on what I can do to sort of bridge that ? I know it will take time before I trust myself to behave "well" all the time.
Good advice- I already am prepared to agree to the lawyer appointment H brings up tomorrow.I will tell H that I have been thinking and a split is best for us, etc. H mentioned in last Saturday's meeting (we meet Wednesday's and Saturday's to discuss the path to splitting we are on), we "will need to see a lawyer regarding splitting assets, discussing legal sep, D", etc. H suggested we keep costs down by seeing ONE lawyer together. H's first M ended in D and he said ex took him to the proverbial cleaners, so he is quite nervous of costs this time around. What is your take on H suggesting ONE lawyer?
I agree, if I do as you suggest, it IS rather sexy and mysterious and all that. needy spouses are never sexy! Good advice Coach!
Yes, we are here because we know in our hearts and heads,(most importantly, our heads), we need to stop doing what isn't working.
A big step for me was taking all emotion out of the equation. H always told me I was way too emotional. H isn't emotional.My emotional behavior scared him. It scared me too.
You know, thinking about the path we are on with DB, and our 180's, sounds like such an easy solution. But owning up to and then breaking the negative behaviors and habits isn't easy. I will say, though, that I feel more at peace with myself the last few weeks, than I have in a long time. I actually am starting to forgive myself for who I was before DB. I still get that "angry feeling" here and there, and have to tell myself STOP IT.
