We just had a long conversation. I told him unequivocally that if he does not want to be married to me he should go ahead and leave. I said I would respect his decision but he needs to understand it is his choice that would be devastating to me, to our kids, etc... He tried to turn it back on me to say that HE was the one that has been devastated, by me "ruining our family" the last few years with my depression issue and spending habits. He still puts all the blame on me and not any on himself, which is beside the point, I guess. I turned it right back around and said love is a decision: he was making the choice not to decide to forgive the mistakes I've owned up to.
Anyway, he said if I was asking for a decision right now he would say he would have to leave. I reiterated my stance. Further, I stated I could NOT be his pal and I realized that is what he wants, but I can't do it. I cannot be friends with someone who wants to devastate me and my children. I stated I would be cordial, of course, for the kids' sake - and that I would be fine even though what I felt what was best for the kids was to have parents that are happily married and I want what's best for the kids. I did get in there that eventually I expected to have a healthy R whether with him or not.
He went on and on about how I have depleted all the good feelings he has for me...that it's just all gone. He further stated that there is no one else - that he's not looking to date or anything else. Says it would be easy for him to hand over the phone and computer, etc... He claims he only was hiding these things because I was hiding mine. Well, I guess I have, but not because I truly have anything to hide. I didn't want him finding this forum, for instance, that is on my history - or all of the documents I've saved in my files. Anything I have to hide is to save my marriage!
So yes: you hit the nail on the head: he wants out but he wants me and kids to be OK with it. I made sure he knows I am not OK with it.
He truly does think all this is all my fault - and it's so crazy to me that he is justifying everything this way!
I held my ground and stayed strong. I'm proud of that. I was confident and didn't even get teary.
He wants a week to do the homework from the program and see how things are then. I didn't really want to give him a week but since he's willing to do the work, I figured OK. He still seems to think it won't do any good, so I wonder why he even wanted a week. He commented that it wasn't so he could find a place. I said, "Oh, I know, because I can always just call the Residence Inn for you...." Bottom line here? He wants out but doesn't want to actually have to leave and deal with the consequences.
SO - we then went on to table the discussion and did the "homework". Is that not odd???
a. If you are going to continue to keep your negative attitude then go... I don't want to do this work with someone who is choosing to be miserable. b. This isnt' clinical depression on your part, you don't have any genetic chemical imbalance in your brain you just want to be negative c. I won't expose that cynicism to these kids any longer
What you told him was quite good, the only part of it I would take out is that you respect his decision - you don't - so why lie to him and make him feel good about leaving?
Be very careful here. He does not want to leave and he may try to lead you on in order to stay in the home - he KNOWS it will cost more for him to live elsewhere.
If he's willing to hand over his phone then do it. You tell him he can see your phone any time he wants. The only private thing you keep is an online journal for marriage building and he is not privy to that.
The key point in fighting this is to make it DIFFICULT for him to leave. Part of MWD is to make it inviting to stay, which helps, but you also need to make leaving unpleasant for him too. No begging or yelling, but hit him in the groin by telling him by walking out that door he is no longer a man.
Have you read Relationship Rescue by Phil McGraw?
95% of his problems are addressed in detail very early on in that book.
McGraw lists ten "bad spirits" that people take on that contaminate a marriage - your husband is using them daily on you and he thinks its constructive. That text should put a stop to it very quickly :
Here they are on his site, but they are in the book too :
Every one of us has an irrational and destructive emotional side to our personality. This dark side can sabotage your relationship in an insidious way.
Below are the most common characteristics of what Dr. Phil calls "bad spirits," and how they can impact a relationship.
You're a Scorekeeper Competing can quickly turn a relationship into an ugly battle of one-upmanship. How can you possibly be a winner if it is at the expense of making the person you supposedly love a loser? Solid relationships are built on sacrifice and caring, not power and control. Competitiveness can drain the joy, confidence and productivity out of any relationship.
You're a Faultfinder There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism if it is designed to improve the relationship. But it can often give way to constant faultfinding -- in which you obsess over the flaws and imperfections rather than find value in your partner. Get off your partner's back and you may see your partner moving toward you.
You Think It's Your Way or the Highway If you've always got to be right, then you're ready to fight till the end. No truer words were ever spoken, says Dr. Phil; you will fight to the end...the end of your relationship. You can't be self-righteous or obsessed with control and do what's best for the relationship at the same time.
You Turn Into an Attack Dog When you get in an argument, do you have a killer stare, a harsh tone and hurtful words? Attack dogs may experience short-term gain, but the target of the abuse becomes filled with bitterness and resentment. While it's easy to fall into viciousness, it's much harder to repair the resulting consequences.
You are a Passive Warmonger Instead of fault-finding or engaging in character assassination, these toxic partners try to thwart their partner by constantly doing that which they deny they are doing -- in such an indirect way as to escape accountability if they are confronted. A passive aggressive person is as much of an overbearing controller as the most aggressive, in-your-face person you could imagine -- only they do it insidiously and underhandedly.
You Resort to Smoke and Mirrors Because you lack the courage to get real about what is driving the pain and problems in your relationship, you criticize your partner about one thing when you're really upset about another. What is real never gets voiced, and what gets voiced is never real. The real issues will eventually burst forth in a torrid way.
You Will Not Forgive When you choose to bear anger at your partner, you trap yourself in pain and agony -- and the negative energy can crowd every other feeling out of your heart. If you wallow in resentment and refuse to forgive and move on, you will tear up your own life and your relationship. You can't change the past but you can deal with the resulting feelings and hurt by truly forgiving.
You Are the Bottomless Pit Are you so needy that you constantly undermine your chances of success? Can you never get enough satisfaction, love, attention or appreciation? Your partner will be frustrated by never seeming able to "fill you up." We all want reassurance, but an insatiable appetite for it never gives your partner any rest. Free yourself from the internalized sense of inadequacy, and find other ways to feel your self-worth and value.
You're Too Comfortable If you're in a comfort zone, you are failing to meet your responsibilities in the relationship. You aren't contributing, you aren't stimulating, and you aren't energizing. If you don't make a move, it becomes easier and easier to stagnate.
You've Given Up When so many bad spirits crowd your life, you cannot imagine there being any way out. You become so forlorn, lonely, isolated, negative, cynical and far from your core of consciousness that you believe you are trapped. Be strong enough to confront your problems instead of giving up.
And what's this business of him telling you there's no one else? You should have called him on the facebook prowling RIGHT THEN and THERE... you KNOW he's prowling and he outright LIED to you and told you he WASN'T
Tell him as long as he lives in this home he stays off of facebook - its disrespectful to you and the entire family.
If you want me to tally up your H's bad spirit contributions I can do that too.. in DETAIL
You don't want a repeat of last weekend. If he is going to do the homework and continue with the program its a sincere effort, not someone going through the motions to humour YOU. He has to WANT to work things out... that's the first step. It doenst' have to be 100% enthusiasm, even 5% is enough... But if he is giong to work on this while prowling facebook for old girlfriends in secret tell him no deal.
Relationship Rescue helped me out a lot. I would buy that book for him, and there is a workbook with exercises to accompany it too. Turn him into a Dr Phil fan. lol
And what's this business of him telling you there's no one else? You should have called him on the facebook prowling RIGHT THEN and THERE... you KNOW he's prowling and he outright LIED to you and told you he WASN'T
Tell him as long as he lives in this home he stays off of facebook - its disrespectful to you and the entire family.
BOOM
OH...I DID call him on it. I said that he may think he has done no wrong but even if he did not have a physical affair, all of his actions and behavior were destructive. I mentioned the facebook trolling, the text message, the talking to other people about our relationship - both male and female - the hiding the phone, even about me suspecting he purchased a background check. I called him on all of it. That's when he said that the things he had done were as a result of my bad behaviors and his ill feelings towards me. I said these things were devastating. He said that HE had been devastated by all my bad spending the last few years - that he is financially devastated... So, instead of looking at what he did, he wanted to go back to what I've done. He said that someone can quit having an affair but you can't get money back someone has burned... I said, "You don't think there aren't scars that last forever when someone has cheated on you? You don't think I don't remember the emails you wrote professing your love to another woman 13 years ago? You don't think I don't have scars from you having left me with 2 small children and that it was not harmful to them at the time?" (He also claimed that what I had done had hurt the entire family - that the things he's done only hurt me.)
SO, yes, I called him on it. He claims that he is not doing any of these things now but still wants out - so that's proof that "the love is gone".
And yes - after all of this he said handing over the phone, etc... was not a problem.
Bottom line here? He wants out but doesn't want to actually have to leave and deal with the consequences.
That IS a problem!
Because unless he can split in two and be both a good husband and a walk away husband, he's going to have to make a choice.
Good job, Sunny! Now you both know where you stand.
Yeah - it's not a pretty place, but this limbo business is no place to be! That's where the problem lies. He doesn't want to have to make a decision and I am forcing it. He says in one breath that his mind is already made up - that he doesn't think this is going to work, that he just wants out and for us to still have a good relationship with the kids. Then, when I tell him to go - he doesn't want to go! So, he is conflicted.
Now, some would argue that the best thing would be for me to "give him what he wants" and for him to realize it isn't what he wants. In other words, to "be friends". I started that whole friends thread because of the 2 different philosophies. MWD even seems to advocate being friends. Several of us just thought her friendship story on this site was to get people to see hope. However, I read someone else's post last week saying they talked with a DB coach and the coach advocated friendship as well. I am confused because I can see both sides. A: Be "friends" - detach - let go - but garner your self-respect. By being their friend yet not putting up with their crud anymore you simulateously provide the release of the trap door they feel but make yourself a good choice still. B: DON'T be their friend because that makes it easy on their conscience. It allows cake-eating. Cake eating allows indecision to continue and the state of limbo.
If you want me to tally up your H's bad spirit contributions I can do that too.. in DETAIL
You don't want a repeat of last weekend. If he is going to do the homework and continue with the program its a sincere effort, not someone going through the motions to humour YOU. He has to WANT to work things out... that's the first step. It doenst' have to be 100% enthusiasm, even 5% is enough... But if he is giong to work on this while prowling facebook for old girlfriends in secret tell him no deal.
Relationship Rescue helped me out a lot. I would buy that book for him, and there is a workbook with exercises to accompany it too. Turn him into a Dr Phil fan. lol
lol
That would be awesome! I've read parts of RR but never the whole thing. The question is, how on earth do I get H to read it? If he's not truly interested in saving the marriage, why would he read the book? I believe there's a 5% interest, but that seems to be it. Since he is still in this mindset that he has no redeeming feelings left for me - he has no motivation to do the necessary work. Believe me, we were given a ton of R tools and reasons why feelings aren't there, etc... this past weekend. He is overlooking ALL of that information right now and choosing to stay in this negative mindset. Of course, maybe the way Dr. Phil presents it could spark something different in him. Who knows.
I agree that if he is going to be in the home that these behaviors can't be present and told him so last night - for this week that he he wanted. I just didn't mention the FB (et al) discussion in my earlier post because it was already long and I was trying to keep it as short as I could. However...I still wouldn't mind the script because it's likely to pop back up!
a. If you are going to continue to keep your negative attitude then go... I don't want to do this work with someone who is choosing to be miserable. b. This isnt' clinical depression on your part, you don't have any genetic chemical imbalance in your brain you just want to be negative c. I won't expose that cynicism to these kids any longer
What you told him was quite good, the only part of it I would take out is that you respect his decision - you don't - so why lie to him and make him feel good about leaving?
Be very careful here. He does not want to leave and he may try to lead you on in order to stay in the home - he KNOWS it will cost more for him to live elsewhere.
The key point in fighting this is to make it DIFFICULT for him to leave. Part of MWD is to make it inviting to stay, which helps, but you also need to make leaving unpleasant for him too. No begging or yelling, but hit him in the groin by telling him by walking out that door he is no longer a man.
Have you read Relationship Rescue by Phil McGraw?
95% of his problems are addressed in detail very early on in that book.
McGraw lists ten "bad spirits" that people take on that contaminate a marriage - your husband is using them daily on you and he thinks its constructive. That text should put a stop to it very quickly :
OK. This is good – all of it. He thinks that by staying home, I am the only one “suffering” but that it’s better for him, and for the kids.
I didn’t mean “respect” his decision – I just meant more “accept” his decision. I will watch that wording more carefully in the future – good point. I DON’T respect it!
As for the next parts – this is where it gets tricky. Yes, I believe he will try to lead me on in order to stay. SO, then for the next paragraph – wanting to make it unpleasant for him to leave – am I not wanting him to stay? I get that I don’t want him to stay and continue his bad behavior and lack of commitment… but this is hard for me to grasp: If he’s in the home it makes it easier to work on R. However, in order to get him to want to work on R, making him leave may be the only way to get him to see the light and want to work on it!
I see many of the bad spirits at play. The thing is, H doesn’t appear willing to see his any of this. He’s acting out of his feelings, not reason. How do I get him to listen to reason?
