I bought 5LL today and plan on reading it. H is out of town so it's a good time for me to retool my efforts. I figure, any info or point of view I can see is good. I know there are points where too much is overwhelming and clouds plans of actions. However, the point I'm at, I am pretty good at discerning what will be useful. Besides, my ultimate goal is to become the best dang FT around, so - it's useful in that way as well!
Since H is no longer involved in the EA (that I know of, mind you) I think some bits of LL's would be fine. However, I still think it's not to be overdone because I am still trying to draw H to me and be mysterious, etc... While he is not currently planning on leaving, it's obvious to me he is still not "in love" with me either. I don't think killing him with kindness is going to draw him back. SO: LL's can be useful but will have to be used sparingly. (Once I understand all about them that is.)
I agree with Allen that you don't positively reward negative behavior, with kids or spouses. I can see where compliments or whatever could be seen as a reward. On the flipside, I can also see where a carefully sprinkled WOA might signify "I'm no longer so hurt over you that I can't be nice." After all, H still compliments me and yet I can see the difference - or rather, FEEL the difference - trust me. SO: it's a balance, and depends on how it's done. Having said that, it takes a pretty darn good DBing expert to do it right I would think, not to be attempted by a novice. CD is no novice though. He's in the advanced class! ME...I dunno. lol I'd like to think I'm advanced, but some days I wonder.
This reminds me of the "be friends/not be friends" argument. Some people swear you can be friends as long as you have the upper hand and others (me included) wouldn't dare be friends with someone who is choosing to abandon their responsibilities and families....
CD: Your other point about the internalization/resentment is right on. That's definitely why our M is where it is at the momeht.
There aren't really any specific issues to internalize at the moment - nothing's come up - to get into it over other than the "lounge" issue. I guess that's a good thing. I've been doing very well at GAL and being a pleasant person around the house, with kids esp. and even H without going overboard. I try and match whatever affection I get from him, basically - as Allen suggested.
It does bother me that we aren't discussing the R at all these days, so, I worry about that (things being further internalized). However, DR says not to bring it up to a WS, esp. one in MLC because they have to work through things themselves. H's unhappiness is not because of me even though he thinks it is. His feelings for me will return when he becomes satisfied with his own life and self, in my opinion.
Having said all of that, I like what you had to say about the 180 and asking him about the lounge deal. Part of the "new M" is fiscal responsibility from both of us...
I've been thinking about this all day today. I really need some more specifics on GAL and 180s so this "new me/new M" doesn't get stale fast. I think what I've been doing has obviously worked to some degree, otherwise H would be out the door right now. Yes, I realize it takes time and no action on my part is going to control H's behavior or counteraction. However, I'm obviously still not fulfilled with myself or I wouldn't be so frustrated. I need help! Plus, I know that even though I cannot control H, there are some things I should/could be doing to draw his attention back to me.
Here's the thing: part of my problem is that I am very amiable. That's a good thing, but at the same time, I am used to adapting myself to others: their likes, their interests, etc... I can see where I've done that my whole married life. Part of my having trouble with 180s or GAL is, I'm always doing 180s to suit the situation - and I don't even know my own interests anymore! Isn't that terrible?
SO: I went back to school - I've mentioned that. Next week I start my new semester - 3 classes plus a lab. I've lost some weight and started dressing better although, I still want to get in better shape and lose a few more lbs. I find that I'm getting looked at more, but not by H! :-(
Trying to get back to the woman H fell in love with. However, I honestly think he just fell in love with my looks and sorry, but I can't return to "smokin hot" 20 years later. (Yes, for my age, but I'll never get back to THAT.) Seriously, that's what he said in our marriage weekend when other men were describing why they fell in love with their wives. H said it was because I was "the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen... dark hair...blue eyes...tall....not just hot, but smokin hot!" Seems flattering? Not really. No woman wants to be loved on her looks alone...that's fleeting. Now I find it discouraging. If that was the only reason he wanted me, what am I supposed to do now???
I feel I've gotten good at the big things with DB. I need some help with the little, practical, day to day things. How do I get H back to those feelings of love? There's lots on these forums about what attract women to men. I need to know what to do to attract H back. HOW am I supposed to be more mysterious? What does that mean??? I HAVE to run kids around and do non-sexy stuff that H associates with "responsibility...boredom...." I just don't know. Any suggestions?? Obviously I don't mean sex - as if you read upthread - it isn't that H isn't interested in sex anymore, at least occasionally. But how do we go back from roommates to "I want to hold her hand...." ???
So yes: I have boundaries in place. I've gotten a life. I even go to study group some nights to study away from the house. H doesn't even seem to notice. I go to lunch with friends although, H doesn't really pay much attention to that either. So - what's next???
Well, to hear him talk, the 20 years has all been about obligation and responsibility to his kids... Of course, I know better than to take that personally. He's definitely in history re-write stage!
I don't have an answer, I guess. I mean, I'm a pretty supportive, easy to live with person. I do understand my depression issues of the last several years made me "less Sunny" but even the kids tell me, "Mom: you weren't bad. Stop blaming yourself for that. We never felt you were bad."
He can't use you having depression as an excuse to misbehave... "In sickness and in health..." Didn't he agree to something like that?
You may want to remind him of that when he brings up your depression... And you may want to remind him of how HELPFUL you likely were when HE was ill... And don't tell me he's been in the pink for twenty years...
He hasn't brought it up lately. Well, not in the last several weeks anyway. I think he knows I'm done with taking that line of crud from him. I flat out told him awhile back that if he wanted to truly consider all of that, he needed to consider this: he KNEW I was depressed. I talked to him about it seriously several times and how - because of our lack of medical insurance - I didn't want to spend the money on therapy or doctors or medications... He KNEW and yet did nothing to help me during that time period. Well, one time he took a whole hour and a half and decided if I got more sun (Vitamin D) and exercised that I'd be better. I told him it was like I was in a pit and he didn't bother extending a ladder or do anything to help me out of it. If he REALLY wanted to consider my depression, he needed to come to the realization that he had failed me as a spouse too.
Oh: he basically told the FT that the whole depression thing was just a cop out - an excuse - for everything I'd "done wrong" anyway. Of course, that was several months ago now.
Point being, he stopped that line of talk after the kids told him he was wrong and I likened it to the pit he left me in. However, doesn't mean he still doesn't feel that way and just not saying it any longer because he knows none of us are hearing it! If he DOES still feel that way though, then it's a contributing factor as to why he 'fell out of love" or is so miserable, or whatever - in his opinion.
H doesn't care about wedding vows, obviously. He sees marriage as more of a contract, not a commitment.
Physically, H has been pretty darn healthy for 20 years except for a cold here or there or flu. Now, mentally and emotionally - that's different. I've obviously been VERY helpful when he was ill and left us for months when the kids were little...and when he needed to have the cyber-affair 13 years ago - and now, putting up with his MLC (that doesn't think he's having!)
SO, I guess I'm back to asking myself this morning about the specifics. What are some practical ways that I can up the game in the 180s/GAL department? What are some ways that H would take notice and maybe bring back the attraction?
Maybe I shouldn't even be concerned with this, I don't know. I would say not if I hadn't been doing the other things for myself, but I have been. Been doing plenty for me and for the kids, so I feel good about that. But - the reason I'm here obviously is to save my marriage so I need to continue to work on that as well. Once H is back on board 100% I know how to proceed to address our issues and make the M the best it can be. My problem of the moment is to facilitate H getting to that point - of wanting the M without a doubt - in a more timely manner.
Take last night for instance. H is out of town. He texted me and said hi - asked how my day/night was. SO, that was nice. I answered back and told him about having lunch with a friend and how she and I were going to take some cooking classes... told him a bit about the boys... He responded with a few things from his day. I mentioned where I had lunch at and he replied that we would have to go there again.
It was a positive exchange but no hint of "lovingness" or that he missed me...anything like that. (And why did he text me instead of call?) Anyway, it's just an example of how things are right now: positive and friendly, but still emotionless. I'm very careful to only give back what I get. H doesn't say I love you so I don't. H doesn't make any attempt at loving guestures (like holding my hand or kissing me) so I don't make any attempt with him either.
I just want some ways to help the process of attraction come back! I mean heck: the other night when we went to the concert together I wore a new dress, got pretty spiffy, and he didn't even notice. Oh wait - he might have. However, if he did, it seemed more of an aggravation with me then "Dang she looks good." In fact, he may have even rolled his eyes! Why would he do that???
