New Thread - Same Sitch

[SunnyD]

STEADY:

I wish I did the cut and paste quote thing more easily. SO MUCH helpful info in your post from earlier. Loved your knowledge and perception on improving yourself sometimes driving people away because they can't handle the new, improved you. That is SO true. Unfortunately, you're right: it can apply to spouses as well as friends. I hope that's not the case for me. I don't think so because I was pretty strong and independent when H and I met. I became more dependent over the years, being a stay-at-home mom and all. As I'd stated above, part of my problem now is knowing WHAT to pursue that makes me happy, feel good, and content! I have to figure that out again for myself. So much of the past 20 years has been about my family. (I'm glad you gave up drinking. That's hard when you lose your friends in the process.... Also glad you now find yourself attracted to healthy women!)

As for your list of why you want to stay married to W, believe it or not, all of those things, as surface-y as they may seem, are real ropes that can lead back to reconcilation. This is something I learned from my weekend seminar that I will go into in more detail in a separate thread. Even though they may not seem strong - it only takes one thread of one rope to have hope! But I get your point: the actual attraction to W after all this is harder and harder to see. I think that's true when you start gaining self-respect.

As for your last statement: I LAUGHED when I read that! I said this to my H too: that love is created and not just there by magic. I also got mocked!!!

Allen's post with Penny's definition is right on target. How to get WS's to see it - I don't know.

[steady]

How to get WS's to see it - I don't know.

They don't want to see it. It's just another cog in their plan. All evidence or opinions that are counter to their actions and choices are either ignored or rationalized away.

[SunnyD]

How to get WS's to see it - I don't know.

They don't want to see it. It's just another cog in their plan. All evidence or opinions that are counter to their actions and choices are either ignored or rationalized away.

Yep: and no use arguing with them about it. Just makes them defensive.

[SunnyD]

Posted this on Seeing Red's thread but thought since it's mostly about me and my mindset, I would also post it here (you know - being my thread and all!)

I have taken a lot of stock in what Allen is saying about evaluating a spouse on misconceived notions of value. In my mind, I keep comparing current H to old H and reminiscing about how things were. Do I think H was the best father and H he could be given his upbringing and background? Yes. Was it "good enough"? Well - yes in a lot of ways. However, I needed to reconsider base values! Lately I have stopped comparing current H in my mind to old H as "the standard" I want to get back to. I started thinking of the men in my life who are so incredible: dad, brother, uncle, grandfather... Now, when I think about acceptable/desirable H/Father, I think of THOSE standards, not "old H": those values. There's a big difference.

What does that mean in terms of my marriage? Well, it means that if I am going to hold myself up to a new standard of being as a result of all this turmoil, I am also going to hold H up to a new standard if we are to fully reconcile! Because - yes, I believe I needed to change myself. I am accepting my role in the failure of this R and realizing my part in my own unhappiness. If I am to be a "new Sunny" then new, improved Sunny deserves H to step up to the plate too.

[CD Bear]

Very nice, Sunny.

I'll have to incorporate that into my thinking as well.

I appreciate that perspective.

great line of thinking. Another boundary?

[SunnyD]

Very nice, Sunny.

I'll have to incorporate that into my thinking as well.

I appreciate that perspective.

great line of thinking. Another boundary?

Exactly: for instance, the boundary could be that I won't accept H's stonewalling ways of not dealing with issues when they appear, or accept them from myself either. Stonewalling is when people refuse to deal with a situation. It's one of the Four Horsemen that ruin a marriage - from one of our weekend seminar books, The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Last or something like that. I can't remember the exact title and the author escapes me, although, he's well known. lol GREAT book, btw. Another definite to add to the list to read.

Anyway, I like the new perspective, CD, and your statements of yesterday morning along with Allen's and Steady's helped me get there!

Now - I just have to think about what that specifically means for me and my R with H and how to implement this new perspective... No lip service! Practicals! Actions!

[CD Bear]

Atta girl.

I think it's John Gottman. Haven't read it but pulled some stuff from the web.

I'll add it to the list.

Thanks.

Keep moving forward. I like how your focus has shifted from him back to YOU.

[SunnyD]

Atta girl.

I think it's John Gottman. Haven't read it but pulled some stuff from the web.

I'll add it to the list.

Thanks.

Keep moving forward. I like how your focus has shifted from him back to YOU.

Gottman - that's it! Definitely a good read and whether or not we end up with our current WS's or not, it will prepare for better futures.

Thanks - I like the shift back to me too - much more productive and I needed the kick from you guys to remind me of that.

[SunnyD]

Just an update. Since getting back on track and making this all about me again, instead of about H's reaction (or non-reaction) to me, I've been very busy the past few days!

H got home from his business trip last night. As I posted on CD's thread, H being home has been OK. He has shown more affection since coming home last night than in awhile! Don’t worry: not taking that as a huge sign and abandoning previous position… just making mental note. Nothing great or over the top – no “I love you” or big, sloppy kiss. Got a warm hug and a few quick kisses and a thank you for fixing dinner, and an affectionate touch of my hair - which are all more than I’d gotten before. So, I’m cautiously optimistic that there’s improvement in H’s mindset.

I’m remembering my ultimate goal though, which is that H has to become a man of integrity, not just a man who wants back in the M!

The problem with the new affection progress is this: it confuses me further on how to be with H. It was part of my goals set in earlier DBing - that H hug/kiss me and show affection that is not just because he wants sex. Another being for him to say ILY, of course. Since he has done part of that, I feel I can up my positivity towards him. At this point I have been just trying to match his level of interest/affection.

However, I did make his favorite dinner for when he came home last night. Didn't do it because I thought it would make him happy, mind you... I did it because no matter how he reacted, I wanted to make a positive gesture that I initiated just to see how it would go. I was prepared if he showed no reaction. It was kind of a 180 for me because the past few months I have initiated nothing as far as doing something "special" for H.

[steady]

Just an update. Since getting back on track and making this all about me again, instead of about H's reaction (or non-reaction) to me, I've been very busy the past few days!

Excellent.

H got home from his business trip last night. As I posted on CD's thread, H being home has been OK. He has shown more affection since coming home last night than in awhile! Don’t worry: not taking that as a huge sign and abandoning previous position… just making mental note. Nothing great or over the top – no “I love you” or big, sloppy kiss. Got a warm hug and a few quick kisses and a thank you for fixing dinner, and an affectionate touch of my hair - which are all more than I’d gotten before. So, I’m cautiously optimistic that there’s improvement in H’s mindset.

It's like I was told a hundred times. Don't put any meaning to it. Just take it for exactly what it is at the moment. A time in a day where he was being more affectionate than usual. That's it. Don't project forward. It is just this - a period of time when he was acting different than he had been. Period.

I’m remembering my ultimate goal though, which is that H has to become a man of integrity, not just a man who wants back in the M!

Make sure you keep your eye on this ball. For some people they work so hard to turn their spouse around, when it happens it's like it catches them with their pants down. Now What???

I once had a girlfriend who was interested in another guy. Well I talked to him and got him to back off. It worked. First time I was with her after that I was sitting in her bedroom thinking, "WTF? This doesn't feel right at all. I got up, looked her in the eye and wished her luck. Told her I didn't want it this way." Then I left. I was so busy working to get her back I didn't even bother to look at what it might be when I did.

The problem with the new affection progress is this: it confuses me further on how to be with H. It was part of my goals set in earlier DBing - that H hug/kiss me and show affection that is not just because he wants sex. Another being for him to say ILY, of course. Since he has done part of that, I feel I can up my positivity towards him. At this point I have been just trying to match his level of interest/affection.

I think matching is perfect. You'll know if you can add a little nudge. Too little he might interpret as rejection, too much as pursuing. But I think there's a fine line with playing a bit 'hard to get' to trigger some more attraction. I'll leave that up to some of the pro's with more experience in that area.

However, I did make his favorite dinner for when he came home last night. Didn't do it because I thought it would make him happy, mind you... I did it because no matter how he reacted, I wanted to make a positive gesture that I initiated just to see how it would go. I was prepared if he showed no reaction. It was kind of a 180 for me because the past few months I have initiated nothing as far as doing something "special" for H.

But you were hoping it would make him happy . Nothing wrong with that as long as you were willing to embrace whichever way it went. Nice gestures are a good thing. I don't recommend them when being treated like a doormat.

It's a nice 180 for you.