I am wondering - and I'm sorry if this is repetitious - but for those of us just starting in this separation with an MLC and no contact - is what you are describing following a "dark" period or have you been together? Just wondering if the advice would differ
IB you sound confused by what was written by HB. Lets try to review what has been written, it is a good question.
HB wrote the 6 stages this is an excerpt from withdrawal stage
Originally Posted By: Heart Blessing from 6 stages
During this time, they will NOT communicate with ANYONE, not even their spouse, as they are drawn so far within, no one can reach them. They MUST be allowed to continue, with NO interruptions, just like before-they will NOT come out until they are READY to come out.
Just like in Depression, they want to left alone, still processing their issues and the damage they have done to their spouse and their lives, and they make several decisions during this time concerning their lives, job, and marriage. But those WON'T be known UNTIL they break Withdrawal and talk to their spouse the first time
They are still secretive, somewhat asserting their privacy, much like a teen-ager, but during this time, they must be gently but firmly led along, and only when the time is right-a wrong word at the wrong time will cause them to "stick" within the tunnel.
What cadet quoted is a contradiction of the instructions that HB originally wrote. See bold highlighted above. You only follow the contradiction when the MLC'er is STUCK in the tunnel during WITHDRAWAL STAGE.
If you do it at some other time when they are not stuck you risk driving them deeper into the tunnel. This is why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
IB for you this is information to file away for possible future use, it is not something that you want to think about now. You are reading up on advanced MLC class. Do not try this at home without parental supervision. LOL!
I hope that clears up what we are writing about. Just to further clariy. Upsides H is stuck in withdrawal and needs to be led home by the LBS'er just the way HB wrote in the original 6 stages. But the leading is a little bit different than everything else that we have learned. I guess it is part of basic DB'ing - "Do what works".
Also, while this reconnecting is going on, many of us will begin to feel anxious and the need to begin applying pressure towards them, i.e, in making a decision as to returing home. You must find it in your heart and dig very deep to keep your expectations at zero no matter what. They must not sense that you are anxious for them to make a decision. If they sense being pressured, they will run hard and fast right back into the mlc tunnel and it will even take longer for them to feel safe to try again. You must keep your body language in calm and continue to treat them as a friend. This stage can usually last up to a year or longer, depending upon the individual. It goes hand in hand w/acceptance. Once they gradually re-enter reality, and into your life, return home and take up living again, it will take another 6-9 months (approximately) for them to actually feel safe in their skins.
This comes from the TMAK reconnection thread and again explains what the LBS'er must do during this time. This is all for a "normal" withdrawal and reconnection process.
I would think for most MLC'ers this would be the advice to follow by the LBS. Part of the problem is that it is such a SLOW process that many LBS'ers become impatient and want to DO something to push the MLC'er through the tunnel. They will only come out when they are ready no sooner.
Cadet and Lance- Thanks for the information. When I get the chance, I want to see if I can find more on this site or others as well. I also want to comment on what you have posted and if it ties into my sitch. I'll be back later.
GAG, cas, Trusting, ib and anyone else-Thanks for coming by. If you come across any information about the final stages of MLC, PLEASE post it here.
Thanks for coming by. If you come across any information about the final stages of MLC, PLEASE post it here.
Upside, I've been following your situation. I can imagine how difficult your H's cycling is on your emotional well-being. You already know this, but it bears repeating.......come here any time to vent. We understand.
I know what it's like to be staring down a D date. Having been there myself I can say with certainty that even if the D happens it doesn't mean that the connection between you and H will be severed. Jody (my DB coach) said that in some situations the WAS needs to feel the decreased pressure that the D affords in order to recognize the depth of their feelings for you. HeartsBlessing has said time and time again, that as long as the WAS is unmarried following a D that there is always the chance of a reconciliation.
I know that you've been at this a long time and this cycling can be emotionally exhausting, so be good to yourself.
I too have been looking for information describing the last 3 stages of late. In my next post I'm going to relate an excerpt from Jim Conway's book.
Depression may preced withdrawal, or the two may run concurrently. The mani in the withdrawal stage asks, "What is my life worth, anyway?" And he concludes, "Nothing!" So he decides to drop out of life.
The withdrawal stage may take two different directions. He may become the passive hermit ---- "I don't want to talk to anyone, I don't want to see anyone --- just leave me alon." I've watched this stage in a number o Christian men. Some of these men have been extremely active, setting the direction and tempo for their whole congregations. However, as they enter midlife and begin to ask what it's all worth, they begin to cut themselves off from life. They gracefully and tactfully decline responsibility and drop off boards and committees. They quietly move to the back pews of the church, and in a few months they are out the back door.
Withdrawal will affect a mans contact with friends There never is any time to get together---"It's just not going to work out. But don't worry, we'll do it someday." Withdrawal also makes sharp inroads into family relationships. The husband and wife hardly talk. Contact with the children is minimal. In short, contact with life itself is very limited.
Withdrawal may be very active. A man may decide to withdraw into his work. He doesn't need anyone---he just buries himself in endless business that crowds out all chance for feelings, questions, or reflections.
As in each of the other stages, withdrawal has positive as well as negative aspects. The stages of depression and withdrawal can bring healing by giving a man time to be alone, to allow his frayed emotions to rebuild, and even to allow his body to gain strength.
................The withdrawal stage may last a month or a year. Frequently a man moves back and forth between the stages as he moves nearer to acceptance. He may fall back into depression or may drop back as far as anger. but lapses into earlier stages will become less frequent and shorter. As he faces his issues in each stage, he will grow slowly and surely toward a mature acceptance of who he is and where he fits into life."
The movement into the acceptance stage is almost unnoticed at first---especially to the man himself. It's like the movement of a wave to the shore. As you look out at the ocean, it's almost impossible to pick out an individual wave. But as it moves closer to the shore, it begins to take form and rises higher and higher. Then the wave curls over, and a whitecap begins to form. The foam shows underneath the curl, and the water from the shore begins to recede as the wave grows in size. As the wave crashes on the shore, you sense its power and majesty. You wonder where the wave was all the time when it was only a part of the ocean. So it is with the man who is beginning to accept himself. At first he doesn't see the change, but increasingly there is an exhilaration---he is moving out of his midlife crisis to a new and productive era.
He begins to see life differently. Only weeks before he had been saying, as the pessimist says about the pie, "Oh, isn't it terrible, half of the pie is gone?" Now strangely, the midlife man begins to view his years optimistically: "Wow! Isn't this great---half of my life is left!"
Now he is aware of his assets and his value. He no longer is a worn-out middle-aged man. Now he is an experienced, able person! He is able to teach and develop the coming generation. He has wisdom and influence. His family and friends no longer are evil people pushing him into old age---they are pleasant companions who love and care for him.
He looks forward to more leisure time, making the creative contribution he has always wanted to. He has a better uknderstanding of his physical body---his real capabilities. Without anger he looks forward to adjusting his activities to fit his real body. Our midlife hero has now moved into what Erikson call the "generative" period of his life. He has become more mellow. He is entering the third settling-down stage. This is the longest stage, and it will be the most satisfying. He will be a very significant, productive, giving man. He has learned to maintain his own individuality, identity, and privacy.
The question repeatedly asked of me is, "What if he doesn't make it through these stages? What if he only goes as far as anger, or depression, or withdrawal?" The answer to that question is tragically simple. If a man does not progress through the stages, but for one reason or another stops along the way, then he will probably experience a prolonged period of trauma. He will likely experience recurring cycles of midlife crisis during the next fifteen to twenty years.
As he comes to retirement, he will then be struggling with two stressful developmental stages at the same time---midlife and retirement. At that point he will verbally kick himself---"Why didn't I think about making changes back in midlife, instead of blindly doing the same dumb things for the alst twenty years?"
If he fails to resolve his midlife crisis, then his third settling-down stage following his midlife crisis, which should have been marked by a great deal of peace, will instead be marked by unsettledness and continual anguish. He is similar to the person who never quite makes it through the adolescent transition into young adulthood. That person forever tries to be a teenager. The man who doesn't make it successfully through his midlife crisis will forever try to be a young adult.
A few men whom I have counseled have deeply concerned me, because I was afraid they would not make it completely through all of the stages. Thus far, however, I have only seen a few who have not made it all the way. In later years these men have become angrey that they did not use the midlife crisis time to improve their lives. But the good news is that successful men who make it all the way are more focused, highly motivated, and have a long season of peace and productivity.
You will see things, (if you decide to continue as you are, and things get turned over into the hands of the Lord), that will raise questions, and you will be allowed to ask about what you are seeing; as it won't make sense to you at the time it's happening. You will see the battle begin in earnest within her; and it will not look right, smell right or taste right, once again. It will NOT let up until she's moves through into Acceptance.
Thank you Cadet for posting this. I think this is a good description of where my H is at. I feel like I am getting a clearer picture of the internal struggle the MLCer goes through toward the end of the crisis but I still can't help but wonder how long this whole process takes.
Originally Posted By: Originally Posted By: Snodderly
If they sense being pressured, they will run hard and fast right back into the mlc tunnel and it will even take longer for them to feel safe to try again.
Lance, this has always concerned me because there seems like there could be a fine line between pressure and pot-stirring. I have given my H deadlines and then "forced" the D to be filed. I am definitely stirring the pot but this is also pressure. Ultimately, I do believe I had to do this or my H would have just kept things as they were...but sometimes I do wonder if at some point I helped him get stuck.
GAG-Thank you for posting Jim Conway's excerpts. The "What if?" section concerns me. I wonder percentage are "a few".
I may have missed this info on this or another thread, but Wonka, have you described what happened and what your thought processes were like when you went through Depression, Withdrawal, and Acceptance? If so, would you please kindly refer me to that post? If not, would you please consider sharing that info here?
Depression:
The various levels of depression entered in my mindset from the time of my grandmother's death in May 1999 (the traumatic event that was the harbinger of my MLC) until I dropped the bomb on my XW on her birthday in May 2003.
The depression that resulted from my grandmother's death was two-fold: felt as if I lost my rudder and my ship was aimless. Even more painful was the fact that I was not able to attend her funeral due to work commitments. The funeral was a big deal in my town...she was the family matriarch and all of her grandchildren attended the funeral. Some even acted as pallbearers. I grieved for my grandmother for years and years. I even refused to go to her gravesite even if I visited my hometown during holidays.
The second part of my depression was when my XW and I bought our first house in the Fall of 2002. I felt an overwhelming burden as a new homeowner and feeling responsible for it. There was also a niggling feeling of being hoodwinked. "Eh...so I bought a beautiful home, have a great job, great looking wife (former sorority sister)...how come I don't feel as if I am on the top of the world?" A huge let down in my mind. That set off another mini-series of depression. So coupled this with the on-going grieving of my grandmother...it felt as if I was living in a pressure cooker. I had to get out FAST!!!!
I struggled with the depression and the intense desire to run away from it all. I wanted to be left alone. And yes, I worked longer and longer hours as a means of escape. It was during that time that I developed an EA with my OW. My XW certainly noticed that I was spending a lot of time with this OW and objected to it. But, silly me, I was having none of it! My depression and silly mind wanted OUT. When I came home from work on my XW's birthday....she was expecting a birthday card, dinner...etc.
Instead...I dropped the bomb on her birthday! Certainly did not get the BEST SPOUSE IN THE WORLD award ever! I had no empathy or feeling whatsoever. Did all the silly MLC stuff....going out at all hours, coming home when I wanted to....sleeping on the edge of the bed...hogging my cell phone/pager...talking and texting my OW alllll the time.
My fog really thickened from the bomb dropping (May 2003) until it cleared out sometime around March 2004. I was a menace!
Withdrawal:
I wanted to get the h@ll out of my house and away from everyone. So I increased my work hours as a means of escape and acquired OW. Even contemplated renting an apartment for myself. My contacts with friends and family members pretty much petered off. It was during this stage that I was alternatively nasty and gentle with my XW. It was a lot like Jekyell/Hyde. It was not conscious at all. Unfortunately since XW was near me and my spouse, I yelled at her and was ornery a lot of the time. It was due to the fact that I was experiencing a great deal of discomfort and wanted that feeling gone. Did not know how to cope with it at all. And empathy went downhill!
Yet at the same time....I was encouraged and grateful that my XW was still "there." There were very, very few times when I was affectionate with my XW. These types of affection included just hugs. NO kisses. XW was, bless her heart, kind and compassionate with me throughout my journey. Although I must tell you this: XW was excellent with boundary setting. When she got cross or did not appreciate certain behaviors, she'd let me know in uncertain terms. I listened to her.
The only thing I refused to listen to her was her entreaties to enter MC or even read the book she bought The Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil. I was not the problem so why should I care? On top of this...I became a LD person. It nearly dropped to non-existent levels. XW confronted me over this aspect and I brushed her off.
Acceptance:
It is very hard to pinpoint precisely when acceptance occurred. In my situation, acceptance came after the fog lifted. I recall when the fog lifted from my brain. It was a lot similar to the Claritin commercials you see on tv. Bingo! The fog seemed to peel off on its own and the clarity was shocking to me. I recall asking..."What happened here? Where have I been?" When the fog went away, I could feel myself again. The old Wonka is back.
In my case, acceptance did not happen overnight. It came gradually and I came to the realization that I am "okay"---and can handle adult responsibilities without feeling the need to be overly burdened. At a subconscious level, I came to terms with my parents' divorce at aged 11. It was never verbalized. But I came to the slow realization that my parents, in all of their imperfections, were wonderful human beings who just could not make their marriage work and it was [b] not my fault at all[b]. I carried an internalized guilt over my parents' M break-up for years and years into my adult years. Like any other child of divorce, I felt that I was responsible for the marriage breakdown and thought I alone was able to save their marriage.
Certainly did not get the BEST SPOUSE IN THE WORLD award ever! I had no empathy or feeling whatsoever. Did all the silly MLC stuff....going out at all hours, coming home when 
