Hey Allen. It is science fiction. I don't know he was "done" but I can see from the posts that there is another side to this. I'm offering a possible reality. One that seems to me is very possible. I see a couple that has hurt each other immensely. I see that his actions are all geared towards lashing out at the pain and ultimately her.
Can I know it? Nope. Nobody knows what's in his head but him. But I do not for a second think that Hope is seeing both sides. Seems to be seeing things as desired and from one perspective. I think it's valuable if she sees that there is another side. I think it will help.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Saying "there is another side" and "a possible reality".. "nobody knows what's in his head but him"..."don't think Hope is seeing both sides"...
This is all very carefully worded expressions of the obvious...
The question is how to solve this problem quickly and with a minimum amount of pain and damage...
I am concerned that stating "there's another side" doens't really get to a solution now does it...
What's the most effective way to get the marriage in a place where the spouse can cooperate?
Putting the affair OUT of the WAY is a great start.. THEN an HONEST uncontaminated side can be heard :
Holes in the Roof
Penny R. Tupy June 2004
I love houses. Always have. A favorite weekend recreation is to tour the semi annual parade of homes or to check out the newest open models in the upscale developments around the area. During my thirties I was an avid member of the National Trust for Historic Preservation; my fun reading was made up of publications such as "Early American Life" and "Preservation." I've lived in an old house, built at the turn of the last century, and in an historic house of a modern sort – built in the `40's with design elements which were decades ahead of their time. For several years I had a recreational decorating and design business. I helped restore a Victorian, once facing condemnation, to near museum quality standards. I've painted concrete floors to look like marble, designed my kitchen from the walls out, and made strategic suggestions for the structural elements of our current state of remodel. I love houses. And in fact, when I travel to other parts of the country I am far more likely to photograph the residential architecture than I am to record the family on vacation. (Much to the chagrin of my children in later years..)
So, what does this have to do with marriage? Well, I live in the upper Midwest where Mother Nature mesmerizes us with thunderstorms, floods, and tornadoes this time of year. Not long ago I watched a newscast about a house that was damaged when a tree came through the roof of a house in one of our many storms. (The man sleeping just under the spot where the tree entered the house was unharmed but definitely shaken!) It got me thinking about the correlation between marriage and houses.
A marriage is much like a house. When it's new, everything is well kept. It's clean. The roof is good, the plumbing works well, the floors are level and unscathed. But inevitably, over time, things begin to break down. If one owns an older or historic home there are always things which clamor for attention – similar to a marriage that's been neglected or damaged by thoughtless choices, independent living and outright harmful actions. A marriage in trouble is much like a house needing significant repair.
It could be that the plumbing needs to updated, the wiring changed from old glass fuses to code compliant breakers, the walls may be cracked and the floors might need to be shorn up to make them level again. A marriage may have issues and conflicts surrounding in-laws, money, sex, child rearing, hobbies, or even pets. Like a house that needs significant work, those things need to be addressed in small steps, with thoughtful planning and oodles of frustrating starts and stops.
But what happens when a storm sends a tree crashing through the roof? No matter what the state of the home prior to that event, all work needs to stop and energies must be redirected toward emergency repair. The tree needs to be carefully removed, the roof repaired and any other structural damage investigated and repaired before work can resume on the pre-existing conditions.
This is exactly the same dynamic that occurs in marriage when there is infidelity. The marriage may need serious repair work in and of itself. But once an affair sends a tree crashing through the sheltering structure of the relationship all efforts directed at the underlying problems take a back seat to the emergency measures brought about by the affair itself. There's no point in attempting to fix the cracked walls and outdated electricity in the marriage when there is a tree protruding into the bedroom and the inner structure is exposed to the elements.
The affair partner must be completely and permanently removed from the relationship in the same way the tree must be removed from the roof. It's a horribly difficult and painful process. Often the affair partner has been a long time friend of one or both spouses. The loss of the friendship and the betrayal that is felt is heart wrenching, no matter what leg of the triangle one is on. But a friendship that has intruded into the intimate structure of a marriage can no longer be considered a friendship. Boundaries have been breached, and there is no way to return to a state of innocence. None of the needed repair work to the marriage can begin until this step is complete. Intermittently ending and resuming contact with an affair partner creates the same kind of damage as picking the tree up off the roof and dropping it back on again – it creates larger holes and more damage.
Once the affair partner is no longer in the picture, the hard work of repair can begin. First and foremost the gaping holes left by the affair must be mended. Depending on the length of the affair and how far into the emotional bonding of the marriage the affair partner was allowed to intrude, repair work could be replacement of the entire roof or simply a minimal patch job. The longer the affair, with the marriage being exposed to the damage of wind and rain, the more repair will be needed. The holes left by infidelity are things such as damaged trust, resentment, the inevitable withdrawal felt by the straying spouse when the affair ends, and stress on the underlying structure of the marriage.
Marriages rarely end in divorce due to the affair itself. But failure to repair the damage from the affair will almost without fail lead to complete destruction of the marriage. Marriages end because there the gaping holes remaining which continue to expose the relationship to more harm. Some couples can do the repair work themselves. These are the calmly methodical sorts who can read about the necessary measures and implement them in without becoming bogged down in the emotional tug of war recovery always entails. For most couples, as with homeowners, hiring a professional is indispensable in making sure the repairs are done well and in a timely manner.
As the holes are patched, the shingles replaced, and the structure found to be intact attention can once again be turned to the problems which existed before the tree made its untimely entrance into the lives of the homeowners. Those issues and conflicts may have become larger or more serious because of the damaged caused either directly or indirectly by the crisis of the storm – that's the nature of destructive events; they have far reaching consequences. Time, patience, persistence, and good professional help can make all the difference in repairing a storm damaged home or healing a marriage torn apart by an affair.
AJM I appreciate what you are saying. HAve you read my last three threads? Ironically, I actually think it's judgemental of you to assume I have not seen his side. I tried for the past year and a half to listen, have empathy, rebuild trust. I have been completely understanding for the past year and a half of his feelings, actions, and words. I have loved him from afar, letting him do his thing and working on myself. What has it gotten me? Abuse. IF anything, it's time I got more in reality and set some boundaries. Sorry, but you are way off.
I tried to meet his every expectation and need. For nothing.
"What I hear in your posts is that you don't respect him. That you want him to be a certain way that fits your vision and it doesn't sound like you leave a lot of room for him to be him. Add in the other issues that may be present (addictions) and it's small wonder he doesn't want to come back. "
- This is just plain mean when you don't even know me. -Sorry, but if there are drugs around my child, especially if the pilot of a plane is addicted, I will take measures to protect my son. I can love and understand my H's pain. But I won't watch him bring my son down with him.
Thanks for the input, however, you obviously put a lot of time and thought into posting on this thread but quit making assumptions of me that you have no idea about.
Allen, I love this article. Thank you. The discussions here of the last few days are helping stop blaming myself for everything and see reality more clearly. It's what I'm seeing - that so many of his "complaints," while some are based in reality, are exaggerated by the OW in the picture. And the fact that he will berate me for these things but not be willing to work on them is also from the OW presence. IF he was done, he would have told me so and been done.
AJ - I just read some of your thread, and it appears you feel your wife is controlling. Please don't project this onto me.
"Let me re-word this as I would have seen it had that been said to me (it was). "I waited around waiting for the changes YOU needed to make and you did not. You are not worthy of being my husband because you would have changed. I would not accept you until you did. It's your fault the marriage isn't working."
-THis is what you heard from your wife, not at all what I said to my H.
If you read my past threads, you may see that we have more in common than is apparent on my new thread. Best of luck, and I'm done defending myself now.
Hi Hope. No offense is intended or implied. What I'm trying to do is ask the question. I see from your posts that you "feel" like you have listened. That you "feel" like you have tried.
I'm not trying to make you defensive. That's counterproductive. If this causes that, then perhaps I'm not getting my point across.
My point is this: I don't know you. That's true. I don't know all of your situation. I'm suggesting that perhaps your definition and his don't match up. Your perspective and his are vastly different. Your efforts to build trust might not match his expectations.
I do this because it seems you are not getting the results you would like to see and may need to change your approach.
So I point out the other side.
I am not trying to project other things. I am however familiar with my own experience and can relate to it. When I see similarities, I can point them out. If they are not helpful, then please disregard. I am not attacking you and have no intention of doing so. In fact, it is painful to try and relate like that. At least for me. To see that other side and to put myself (possibly) into his head.
To be clear: the drugs around your son? I agree that should not be tolerated even once. That is a separate issue from your relationship with your husband and may be a deal breaker for you. I would certainly understand if it was. If that's the reason you kick him to the curb, then so be it. The rest no longer matters, right?
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
So these recent conversations explain the exact dilemma I feel - how do I look at my husband? Is he in an affair/addiction, or has he just "moved on?" Do I quietly accept that he is finding happiness elsewhere or fight for my M? Do I work with his new life in terms of coparenting or do I fight to keep the OW and his partying lifestyle as far from my son as possible?
Obviously, I believe that he is in an addiction and I need to protect my son. But how can I be sure? I hear others when they say let go and work with the new sitch and move on. Just want to be certain that I'm doing the right thing so I know how to proceed, in my perception of H, my custody battle, and my attitude toward marriage.
Hi Hope. Happened by about the same time you posted. The dilemma - hopefully it helps to articulate it.
Addiction? You can't make him stop I suspect. You can confront and bring it to crisis, but only he can stop it sadly.
The OW? Does it matter if the addiction is there? Accept that he is finding happiness? I've never known a happy addict while they were using. But your choices are more about you and your son at this point since you really can't get husband to change if he doesn't want to.
How to proceed? Only you can answer that since you have to live with it. But I think it may have been helpful to put it all in perspective. At least I hope it was.
Regardless of what you, your son deserves to be safe and to have a relationship with his dad - in that order. In my opinion.
Your ability to love and be loved? I think you have to answer that. You have to know that you are who you are and that what got you here is the past and not your future. You have to figure out if you made a mistake in choosing him, or if he changed along the way in ways you could not tolerate. So that you know if you need to change what you look for in a marriage should you go that route.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
This is my issue with the MLC diagnosis Hope... It just paralyzes you.. I don't support it at all.
The research myself and others on the Infidelity forum are finding is that treating infidelity is the same, despite the cause of it...
MLC, Ego, Boredom, whatever.. it matters little, you attack the affair the same way according to infidelity experts... There is acknowledgement by Lusterman and others that there are different kinds of motivations for infidleity, but the TREATMENT is the same...
The MLC forum will disagree, and they are welcoem to their opinion there... I dont' invade their space or bring my arguments over there...
But that's my position and what I am finding from researching infideltiy on this forum and in expert documentation on cases... infidelity may have different reasons for starting but they END the SAME WAY - CONSEQUENCES
Allen, we agree. Consequences. To Hope: My thought about the OW being a concern or not: I mean it in the way that, does it matter if that goes away if the addiction isn't dealt with? The addiction is still in the way of the marriage from what I see. I think the question is asked this way: which to deal with first, if I decide to deal with them? If so, I would say the addiction is the big one. But I could be wrong as to which to deal with first. Just that you can't deal with both at the same time as effectively as if you dealt with one at a time.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
But that's my position and what I am finding from researching infideltiy on this forum and in expert documentation on cases... infidelity may have different reasons for starting but they END the SAME WAY - CONSEQUENCES
That's why this doesn't fit: "What I hear in your posts is that you don't respect him. That you want him to be a certain way that fits your vision and it doesn't sound like you leave a lot of room for him to be him. "
It's not at all that I don't respect him or leave him to be him - it's that I am not respecting the actions of affair and drug use (even if he is not addicted). There will have to be consequences. If not from me, then the courts. Of course he doesn't see it my way. Other wise boundaries and consequences wouldn't be necessary.
