Both Bond & Allen give excellent advice and you will be wise to listen and follow.
My POV is from the WAW. The first thing I want to point out is that everything you mentioned that you loved in the MR could easily be satisfied (for her anyway) with a close girlfriend. So, it is extremly important to regain and keep a good sexual life together. (BTW, I really do understand what you were pointing out about all those other things that you enjoy with her.) But as someone has already told you, don't settle for a MR without sex.
The next thing I want to point out is that you cannot believe everything she tells you. I know you want to do that and you chose to believe her.....but you cannot afford to continue to do so. For one thing, she's a WAW in an A. Even if she has not walked away from the house...she's walked away from you & the M. She's been unfaithful to you. Repenting of her A is good and she probably did not set out to intentionally hurt you....but the fact is that she's not through with OM. You won't want to believe me, and I get that....but I'm trying to brace you for what's to come. You can't accept her at her "word" b/c she has been untrustworthy and she's cheated...that makes her a liar. Listen, I used to get very angry when Puppy would tell posters that "all cheaters lie" b/c I thought I had never lied to my LBH. Well....duh! I may not have told him a verbal lie, but man, did I lie through withholding information and hiding behind his back.
This is not the girl you M. You have to change how you deal with things from this point on, or you will not bust a D. That is what our goal will be...to help you do so.
You need a plan, ASAP. You need to get the Divorce Remedy tomorrow, if possible. You can read articles from Michele here on her board, and several forums have the first chapter in her books. Reading other threads would be very helpful...and be sure to post here every day.
I suggest that you do not make any moves until you run it by the board. The reason I say this is b/c sometimes Newcomers act before they have all the information and then it's hard to recover from that. We do, of course, expect you to think for yourself...but you are going to hear things that may not sound "logical" to your reasoning brain. Very much of what is said will probably sound the opposite of what you thought one should do in cases such as this.
Can you tell us why your W just suddenly decided to tell you about her A?
We've also learned that most WAW's will not tell you the "complete" truth about their A. What did you say to her or how did you respond? She could have either been testing you to see how you'd react to the news....or else the A has taken a new level. You would like to think that guilt drove her to tell you, but I doubt it did.
All you have to do is read hundreds & hundreds of threads here on the board and you will quickly see how it seems as if you are reading the same story over & over again.
LBH's gets the news of the A one day and the news of D the next. That is why you need to get informed ASAP. I know you probably won't want to do so, but you really need to get informed about the A and if it is still alive. I think you'll discover that it is. Do not let your W know what you are doing! Do not over-react to anything you may find b/c you will need to save that information. If you do not keep it from her, then she will lie her way out of it. You can get phone records, install a keyboad divice, etc. But you've got to be smart about becoming a detective.
Quote:
We haven't had sex in three months now
I would look at that as a timeline when the A started. And, if she should suddenly get real interested in having sex again, you need to use protection b/c she's been with OM....and b/c she'll probably be scared she's pregnant. Sorry to be so blunt, but have to warn you. I am suspicious of why she decided to spill her gut.
I know that sounds so awful, but it is necessary if you are going to fight for your M. You may not discover anything right away (especially if her and OM had a fight...and that may be her reason for telling you of the A), but sooner or later....it will show up.
She cannot be attracted to you sexually if she doesn't respect you, first, as a man. Be sure you are the man she married....physically, emotionally, etc. Something caused her to lose interest in being intimate with you. It may take a therapist finding out the truth, but before that happens....you've got to bust the A. Don't even consider MC until you know that she's over OM. It won't work if there is a third party involved.
Quote:
I'm a terribly rational person and the only way things make sense to me is to break them down into a calm logical discussion.
You will want to fix things by talking with her. It won't work. You'll keep trying b/c you work that way, but it won't be successful. You cannot talk to her about the R b/c it will push her away. You don't talk. If she wants to talk to you, fine....but you just listen...don't talk.
What concerns me the most is how you sounded as if after the long talk....she convinced you to be her best friend....instead of her lover. That is called cake eating. She has the best of both worlds. Don't settle, don't ever settle!
If you don't like Carey Grant in comedies, watch Clark Gable in Gone With the Wind. If ever I could use a screen image to relay what I think most women fantasize in a male....it's him. Not his looks....but "him". JMHO, of course. BTW, if you should watch that movie to observe him....be SURE you catch the very last sentence that Brett Butler says to Scarlett O'Hara, when he goes out the door and she's crying about what she'll do and he says, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". If you ever read or catch Part II, you'll see where Scarlett spends the next several years trying to win Brett back. In the end...she finally did, but the point I'm making is that she did not really want him until he was through with her. Hummmmm......
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
We've always been very open in our communication with one another. That is probably the strongest part of our relationship. To my knowledge, this affair is the only thing she's ever kept from me.
But as someone has already told you, don't settle for a MR without sex.
I hear you. I just wonder if it makes me an odd ball because I really don't care much at all about sex. I wonder why we can't maintain our relationship on the other things.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Can you tell us why your W just suddenly decided to tell you about her A?
We've also learned that most WAW's will not tell you the "complete" truth about their A. What did you say to her or how did you respond?
We'd been having arguments over silly things lately. It was as though she were trying to pick a fight with me. Ultimately it was just that. I came home the other night after one of those seemingly insignificant fights and she was waiting for me on the couch. She first told me that she wasn't attracted to me anymore. I asked if she loved me. She said yes, but not that way. The conversation went on for a bit and she told me about the affair. After the initial shock of that revelation wore off, I did as I always do. We sat down and began to discuss the situation rationally.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
You can get phone records, install a keyboad divice, etc. But you've got to be smart about becoming a detective.
That just seems paranoid and dishonest for me. Even through all of this, I still respect her and her privacy. I couldn't snoop on her like that. It just isn't me. It also seems as though it would put us on an adversarial ground when we're both willing to work on things currently.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I would look at that as a timeline when the A started.
I agree. That's also about the time that I lost control in my depression fueled drinking binge.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
She cannot be attracted to you sexually if she doesn't respect you, first, as a man. Be sure you are the man she married....physically, emotionally, etc. Something caused her to lose interest in being intimate with you.
That makes sense. I know I haven't been the same man over the last year and a half. I lost my job. I lost my Grandmother. I nearly lost my Father. I was diagnosed with Chrone's Disease. All of that took a toll on me. Changed me. I want to get through it and get back to who I was before. I just don't know how.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
What concerns me the most is how you sounded as if after the long talk....she convinced you to be her best friend....instead of her lover. That is called cake eating. She has the best of both worlds. Don't settle, don't ever settle!
I've thought about leaving for awhile. Going to stay in a hotel and cutting off communication with my wife for a little bit. I don't know if that's a good move or not. I fear that it would only make things worse. I'm not sure how to put my foot down on this tightrope I'm walking. I know how she responds to ultimatums and it isn't well. I worry that if I told her this is the way it is or I'm gone, she'd just tell me to go out of spite and our marriage would be over.
If you're not interested in sex, then could your lack thereof be because of you? For a male to say that is a big thing.
When you stop showing your W that you want to have sex with her, you are showing her that you don't find her desirable.
If that was the case, then it's no wonder why she sought out another man. Without the sex you're just another "friend".
Don't get me wrong. It isn't that I'm uninterested, it's just that sex isn't the dominant desire for my wife. I do show her that I want her and that I want to have sex with her. I tell her frequently how beautiful and sexy I find her. It's just that if I had no other choice but to live without sex in my marriage, I could.
Sex is the easy part. I've had great sexual relationships in the past but I've never had the intimate connection I have with my wife.
"it's just that sex isn't the dominant desire for my wife."
Maybe it is. Maybe this is how she shows her sense of worth. If she has low self-esteem as you say, she might use the sex as a way of self-affirmation.
How are your day to day interactions? Any other methods of intimacy like hugs, touching, etc.?
Have you ever read the 5 Love Languages book?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
With all the changes that have happened, have you physically changed a lot? Is your physical appearance less attractive to your W now - were you a snappy dresser and now you dress down? Were you physically toned before and well groomed but now you have let yourself go? Do you feel worthy of your W's respect? Do you feel worthy of your W?
What makes a M work differs for each couple, but what your W did does seem to imply that a sexual connection IS important to her - more important to her than it is to you. You need to make her desire you again. You need to pinpoint what it is you have lost in that area, ( and my guess would be your 'masculine edge' and your self respect). It sounds like perhaps you have so much guilt from the drunken night incident and your job situation, that you are going round like a dog skulking and expecting to be, (and thinking it deserves to be), kicked.
Man up would be my suggestion.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
You can get phone records, install a keyboad divice, etc. But you've got to be smart about becoming a detective.
Originally Posted By: LasombraKnight
That just seems paranoid and dishonest for me. Even through all of this, I still respect her and her privacy. I couldn't snoop on her like that. It just isn't me. It also seems as though it would put us on an adversarial ground when we're both willing to work on things currently.
Privacy: closing the door to poop Secrets: keeping the poop from your spouse
One is good. (healthy boundaries) One is bad. (unhealthy boundaries)
(to paraphrase a PDT)
Trust is earned. She has told you that she is unworthy of your trust.
Personally, I would trust but verify. Find out if she told you the truth. (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) If she did, great no harm no foul.
If she didn't, confront and set boundaries.
She got a big sigh of relief by admitting her affair. She probably didn't tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
"it's just that sex isn't the dominant desire for my wife."
Maybe it is. Maybe this is how she shows her sense of worth. If she has low self-esteem as you say, she might use the sex as a way of self-affirmation.
How are your day to day interactions? Any other methods of intimacy like hugs, touching, etc.?
Have you ever read the 5 Love Languages book?
Our day to day interactions are good for the most part. We call each other throughout the day, we go to lunch together often, we have regular dates out. We hold hands, we cuddle on the couch, she sleeps on my chest at night. We never hang up a phone or leave the house without saying "I love you".
Kissing might be problematic. We kiss each other goodbye every morning and goodnight every night. But it is rarely the passionate kind of kiss.
