Quotes Found on Divorce Busting (III)

[Ready2Change]

Just something I pulled up from my personal archives that I thought might make a good thread-starter:

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On “having a plan,” and “The Schmuck Factor”:


I think you let her know that you are here for her when she is ready to do the work necessary. She clearly isn't ready to do that right now.

It would convey weakness if you were to be supplicating towards her while she was still actively cheating on you, and disrespecting her boundaries. Letting her know that you are willing to suck it up, forgive, love unconditionally and do the hard work of reconciliation -- when she is ready -- does NOT convey weakness, it conveys character and strength.

Many, many people confuse "unconditional love" with "doormat-without-boundaries." It is entirely possible -- and NECESSARY -- to demonstrate unconditional love and forgiveness, within a framework of healthy boundaries.

Do you not love a child unconditionally, while at the same time not allowing them to use obscenity when speaking to you? Do you not love a spouse, while simultaneously not allowing them to berate you in front of another couple?

Those are just two silly examples, but I think this is where you're getting hung up. Us men have a REALLLLL hard time with the whole "schmuck factor" thing, and it really rears its head when there is infidelity involved. We don't like to be made a fool. But if your "standing" for your marriage is PART OF A PLAN -- YOUR plan -- then who's the schmuck here? You take a position of "Yes, I am, at the moment, deciding to stand for my marriage, even though my wife is having an affair and is refusing to admit it and work at the marriage, but I have made this choice to do this FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, and I will hold out as long as I can, all the while trying to lay out and enforce healthy boundaries for me and my children. My wife is an adult, I cannot control her, and I'm praying that she comes to her senses soon, before my love for her fully runs out, but I can hold on for "x" months and I will do so, to the best of my ability. This is MY decision, this is MY stand, and I am doing it with boundaries, legal/financial protections for me and my kids, and for a finite period (uncommunicated to spouse -- just tell her "I won't wait forever") of time."

My wife asked me both during -- and after -- her affair, why I was fighting for her. Why I hadn't kicked her out immediately. I told her:

- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";

- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;

- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;

- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;

- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.

When you lay out (and maybe even write down), what YOUR OWN reasons are, and give yourself an internal deadline (6 months, one year, whatever) . . . then I think, as a man, we can feel like WE are executing a plan, and that we're not being a "schmuck."

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Puppy

[Ready2Change]

Keep separate residences, and ask for full no-contact and 100% transparency*. DATE each other for six months, with a re-evaluation of how it's going at three months. (this can either be exclusively or non-exclusively, but have it be what YOU want, and be HONEST with her about it).

You'll know soon enough if she's sincere or not.

Puppy

*make sure that YOU approve the content of the no-contact letter that she writes for OM, and then YOU mail it (so that she adds or subtracts nothing). Also, make sure you have at least ONE channel of intel in your transparency system that is UNKNOWN to her.

[Ready2Change]

I think the #1 topic for WAW's to give fight is "You've invaded my privacy.....and we're just friends". Isn't it crazy how she can turn the truth around and have you doubting it? That is her "out" for now....making you the bad guy in the M.

You cannot afford to be passive with her behavior and lack of disrespect. Contacting this OM, especially after he stated his feelings, is total disrespect toward her H. This must be your first boundary.

It's all about respect and attraction. She has lost respect for you aNd she is no longer attracted to you. So,what can you do to change that? What can you do immediately?

[Ready2Change]

...I don't recommend showing him posts here... We can't give you effective strategy if he's reading it himself.

Once the affair is over and you are reconciling THEN you can open up about this stuff.. But right now is NOT a good idea.

Never mind how YOU feel about the journaling. HIS reaction won't help your marriage right now at all... He will NOT be fair OR rational about what he's read... If anything he will use it as ammunition to exit the marriage.

I HAVE seen a WS find a LBS thread here and he printed all the posts up, took them to the MC session, ambushed his wife and ended the marriage right there and then.

Don't underestimate how violated HE will feel finding his life on a public forum... particularly painting him as a passive aggressive escapist sleazeball...

Keep the forum to yourself for now... sharing this with him any time soon will not help your marriage.

[Ready2Change]

Derived from Allen A's guidance:

I moved things around a little bit, added and deleted:

Talking about histories in front of each other seems to make us argue. I'd like to do that more in our individual sessions. This week, I would like to talk about our goals and the immediate problems that we are facing.

I want this to be clear: my goal for counseling is to save the marriage. I love your family and our life together. Your family is torn apart by these lies and our conflict. This is what infidelity does to people’s lives. It rips them to pieces and puts everyone through unbelievable amount of stress.

The most immediate obstacle to us working as a couple is OW. She is and has been acting as a counter-productive interloper in our marriage. I am unable to move forward and discuss any other problems within our marriage until this matter is settled.

No one believes for a second that you are not having an affair. I have written down a list of all the lies, the evidence that I confronted you with, and why people do not believe you. You have spent too much time alone in secret, too many messages logged and documented, and too many screw-ups at work for anyone to think this is anything other than infidelity run rampant.

I am not going to argue about your involvement with her. You are too fearful to own your mistakes right now and in part I can understand your hesitancy. But make no mistake: no one believes she is "just your friend". No one.

Your lies are destroying everything around you. Your career is at risk because of her distractions. Now your marriage is falling apart as well because you went to her instead of here in this office in the first place.

I am offering you a chance to come clean and admit to the affair. Once you own your affair the exposure will stop. I will not go to S or anyone else in your work world to expose this ugly mistake. You will, however be honest with your family about the lies and the cheating and you will tell them with me present.

If you refuse I will have to take this further into the University and your entire career is then at risk. Infidelity with your students is a serious violation of policy. Infidelity puts projects at risk; you have proven this very much to be the case.

In order to feel safe communicating with you, I need you to cease all contact with OW. After today, we have our individual sessions, then come back together. If you are honest and if you cease contact with OW, we can move forward. There is no way to heal with her in the picture.

I need you to tell her it is over. I need you to end it in front of me and mean it. I need you to remove her presence from your home, in particular your computer. I need you to share your text messages if I ask. I need you to allow me access to your email accounts.

I will be doing likewise. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

It's your turn.

I slept better last night but I still woke up nervous. But at least I know if I read this in front of the therapist we will have a neutral 3rd party who can guide the conversation. She needs to hear this as much as H needs to hear it again. I have been back sliding too much because I want to believe so much that this A isn't happening. But I discovered too much to believe his lies anymore.

[Ready2Change]

You've apologized. Done. The rest is about action. ACT like you get what you were doing wrong before. 180. If you were a selfish jerk before...act like a compassionate human being going forward. If you were stale and boring before....start doing things that are different and exciting. Get a bucket list and start working on it!. If you were sarcastic and biting before....soften your words. See what I mean? She is watching what you DO! Even if she insists she is not watching, she is. Geeez, women notice EVERYTHING (that's why we can be so brutal with EACH OTHER! ha!).

This is GREAT advice, Greek. One of the hardest things for me to come to grips with in my sitch was the utter impotence of my WORDS. I've always been a good writer, and a persuasive speaker, but I learned to OVER-estimate the effect that I could have in that regard. When I learned of my wife's affair, and in the face of her continued deceit towards me, I still felt like "If I could ONLY say JUST THE RIGHT COMBINATION of words to her . . ." or "send her JUST the perfect song lyrics," etc. . . . she'd change her mind and come back to me.

And, as you state, similarly my OWN improvements couldn't come from any grand proclamations about how I'd improved -- I had to SHOW her.

The power is in the ACTION . . . not the WORDS.

[Ready2Change]

Bottom line I think at this stage is to stick to your guns when you say something....but you have to take a stand soon and show him that you mean business.

[Ready2Change]

should i walk away for good

Yes. That should have been the FIRST thing you did. Hanging in there with a man who says they don't want to be with you is silly. It also very seldom works. It usually ends up exactly as you are right now, which is a lot of wasted time and energy to arrive at the same place you started.


My advice is is to walk away for good and find a man who WANTS to be with you and shows you he does. You act like this is the ONLY man in the world. He isn't. Go find another one. You WILL suddenly feel on top of the world and wonder why you were so silly on waiting for a man who says he is done.


Start dating. Don't let others tell you that you aren't ready. If you aren't ready to date, then you aren't ready to see your husband if he wanted to come back.


Find someone else. Someone who treats you right and wants to be with you. This advice may be so simple that it isn't what you want to hear. However, you did ask.......

I agree with Mr. Gucci on this one. Wholeheartedly.
Greek

[Ready2Change]

Our egos are all about our past and our future. They are where our sense of time comes from, they are what allow us to plan for the future. But you cannot experience true joy in the future or the past. You can only do that right now, and our egos don't exist in the present, so they fear letting go and just experiencing the moment

[Ready2Change]

These forums are definitely not to be construed as GAL'ing.

Get off your pc,
get outside,
go hang with friends,
hang out with family,
travel, take a vacation,
go shopping,
home reno's,
join a team sport,
join a gym (and actually go),
set goals that you can attain and DO IT!,
get involved with charity work,
volunteer,
connect with your kids again,
get your life back on track again,
focus on you, what makes you happy, learn to make yourself happy and not rely on others for that,
happiness is a DIY job.

Life is short, don't waste it.