Darker days ahead

[DumpedforMIL]

But.. this is what the world tells us. As boys we are taught women need to be "coddled". To a man this is the epitome of what we should do.. "Provide and Protect".

i guess to me, that's mind reading. how do you know that's what i want? or what another woman wants? not every woman wants the same thing.

someone on another thread said it best. it's not about financial security .. it's about being able to "handle it" when life throws curve balls at you. and you know what? my h threw hissy fits and panicked when life threw a small change-up at him. "omg, how do i put this presentation together for the vp?!" .. you're a senior manager and you're freaking out? i had to calm him down and i got the presentation started for him. and i'm just a pee-on.

is that about money? no, and i started seeing more and more of it. that when life throws things at you, you have to be able to handle it .. at least, don't show that you can't. it made me less and less confident in his ability. that's how i ended up with the non-emotional lead role.

I harp on this so much.. but I will do it again.. It is all about the OP's perspective and the "Emotion" that they are looking at the situation with. If things are not working.. you can get angry.. or frustrated.. or tired of doing things. This sets into motion that person looking back on their life with "colored" glasses. It is not any different that the LBS looking at the situation in front of them.. and acting a fool.. or hiding in the bedroom.. or becoming stuck.

it's all perception. but it sounds like you're saying to make accusations like that is really meant to hurt the other person because the OP is frustrated that things aren't working. like a woman withholds sex so a man makes hurtful accusations at her. how does that solve anything?

Don't compare the advice given to someone here.. to your "stitch" or thoughts. Even if you have read it all.. there is a possibility that someone has a different perspective.

but if our sitches aren't unique, then most advice would apply to all sitches.

i think it's the wrong message to send. we want financial responsibility .. not financial security. the latter implies that we are gold diggers looking for a sugardaddy.

having financial security is like having unlimited funds and you can buy whatever you want.

being financially responsible, forgetting to pay the electricity bill, or spending beyond your means.

to me, those are two different things.

At the end of the day.. you are looking for someone to provide and protect you.. we all are. It may not be money or a home in your "stitch"... but it very well might be in someone else's.

for sure. but i will think twice about wanting someone to provide and protect me. there will always be a voice that says "don't be fooled by these empty promises. it's a trojan horse that will come back and bite you."

So.. step one is important? Save yourself? How do you explain that to someone that does not want to hear it?

you tell them to go talk to D4MIL. the way i "saw" it was from reading other threads. i saw how others were frazzled and trying to implement the advice being given by others and failing miserably. and you start to look at why this was happening. if this advice is being given by a vet who has been there, why isn't it working? then you realize the person isn't in the right frame of mind to start doing the work. this problem still exists in newcomers.

I have come to realize that no matter how you say it.. they won't listen.

we're in our own fog. however, you have to let them experience what it's like to be completely powerless and rotten. only then, can they decide that they don't want that.

I suspect that in doing "that" you change your perspective on the situation.

i kept asking myself why i kept wanting to teach him a lesson. and yes, he may not get it. but it wasn't until i described what saying my piece would mean .. is when i figured out that teaching him a lesson was my way of standing up for myself instead of being a doormat.

I believe that if you are going to go the "hard" way.. you have to have a personal mentor that is available at a moments notice. Or just have tons of self control.

i don't advocate going gucci or robx .. i look at whether the person is in the right frame of mind to say/do anything.

but mainly because from my perspective you have a chance if you listen.

perhaps. my ic is trying to get me to stop focusing on my h or my m. in her perspective, our m was doomed from the start. now that oughta be a mood lifter.

If you can wake up.. and put this crap behind you.. smile.. and do your thing.. you are off to an awesome start.

it's a struggle to do this.
i have spewed so much crap that it's pretty freaky. i do it to let it out of my system. i have to be careful who i do it in front of.

What you fail to realize.. is that that person you are "looking down" on.. Got up.. put the crap behind them.. maybe smiled.. and did their thing.

i gotta turn the attention back on to me. otherwise, i'm gonna get a restraining order slapped on to me.

that was my second attempt at handwaving. i need to work on me!

I am still watching.. truth be told.. I am curious if you get different advice.

i'm not looking for different advice. i am giving others the chance to look at my sitch and then look at their own and maybe say "mine isn't so bad cuz D4MIL has it worse!"

i have a tendency to seek advice from a variety of sources but in my attempts here, i have stuck by FG's advice.

It will be interesting to "see" how it pans out. Personally.. I still think you have a chance. But.. if all you do is walk away with your head held high.. I am OK with that.

the lack of communication is causing me not to see anything. and i'm tired of waiting for the fog to clear. the longer he stays in this fog, the less of a chance we have. they say it takes 6 months for a guy to bounce back and find someone new. i'm sure he's having the time of his life with a new gold digger .. err .. girlfriend.

me? i'm just waiting for my home to be built. waiting for the SA to be finalized. i want to be confident, happy, and radiant on the day i sign those documents. and that's my goal.

i want to stop this insanity.. maybe this real separation is going to help me. i can stop going out to show that i have a life. i can sit at home and meditate and enjoy reading or watching tv for a change.

D4MIL

[NotFromThesePart]

But.. this is what the world tells us. As boys we are taught women need to be "coddled". To a man this is the epitome of what we should do.. "Provide and Protect".

i guess to me, that's mind reading. how do you know that's what i want? or what another woman wants? not every woman wants the same thing.

We don't know that is what you want. I think you miss the point. It is not that all women want to be provided for and protected. The point is society tells us (men) that this is what we should do. I was actually pretty good at this. When it doesn't work we don't understand why. I told our MC "W doesn't think the rules apply to her". I didn't really know what I meant when I said it, but I felt it. I do now and it was exactly this point, "why don't I get credit when I do the 'right' thing". I was playing by society's rules, not by W's.

I think this is common and I think a lot of Ws could learn something from this. Many men think this way. It is not that we are right, but we know no other way. The catch-22 is that to learn this stuff we have to open up and many women see that as weakness. IMHO.

[DumpedforMIL]

NFTP .. i generally do not respond to posters on my thread who i suspect will be one time posters but i will address this one.

please excuse my harshness ..

We don't know that is what you want. I think you miss the point. It is not that all women want to be provided for and protected. The point is society tells us (men) that this is what we should do.

if you don't know what your w wants, then you need to ask her, validate her, and learn to ask the right questions. active listening.

society may be feeding you this. but is society running the show? we as individuals have a responsibility .. how did divorce become the 'norm'? because of society's acceptance of it? do we have to accept it just because hollywood glorifies it? society says infidelity is a 'norm' .. should i label every man as a cheater? we as individuals are part of society that is sending this message or creating this 'acceptance'.

I do now and it was exactly this point, "why don't I get credit when I do the 'right' thing". I was playing by society's rules, not by W's.

that line shows that you're keeping score in your marriage which is a big problem.
you never keep score .. or do this 'tit for tat' thing that it sounds like. you're an adult, not a child.

besides, what you think is the right thing, may not be the 'right' thing for her. and that's why you shouldn't keep score. you're giving yourself a donation to the love bank but to her, it might be a withdrawal.

anyway, i'm going to end the discussion here. i will continue to use this thread to document my own journey to healing.

D4MIL

[NotFromThesePart]

D4MIL,


I'll keep up with you.

Where were you two years ago! I'd be in a much better place right now if I'd known some of these things. I don't "blame society". I know the way I loved my W wasn't what she needed. Unfortunately I learned too late. I step up and admit my failures. Guilty as charged. I'm not the only one, W hasn't quite seen her failures yet. The ironic thing is that now that we are separated we're both doing a lot more of what the other needed. For ourselves.

I’m not trying to tell you what you should want, or what your needs should be. But if you do not communicate them, don’t be surprised when men don’t know what they are and we fall back on what society tells us. Women do this too, just in different ways.

[DumpedforMIL]

Where were you two years ago! I'd be in a much better place right now if I'd known some of these things.

i was still somewhat happily married.

i'm ready to face my worst case scenario that the marriage is over.

The ironic thing is that now that we are separated we're both doing a lot more of what the other needed. For ourselves.

are you both happier doing a lot more of what the other needed for yourselves?

i can relate to that but for me, no .. i'm not happier. why? carrie underwood once said it best .. "it'd be nice to be able to call someone else other than my mom when i win an award". and that's exactly how it feels. who do i share my life's successes and accomplishments with? life turned itself around but who's there to share it with?

i've been looking for a vacation. well, to travel solo will cost me the same amount of $$ as if i was travelling with someone. why?

yes, i can afford to pay double the price .. but it's the principle. why should i? i'm not using twice amount of water or soap when i shower. i'm not making twice the amount of a mess for the maid to clean. i'm not eating twice the amount of food.

so what do i do? not travel? should i be letting this solo act stop me from doing the things i love to do?

so now i work longer to get paid more so i can afford a vacation.

oh yeah, i can't even join those contiki tours in europe because it's for 18-35 yr olds. i'm in my late 30s.

that's my latest beef. the perks of being a twosome.

btw, i hate not being able to edit. moderators, is this a communist community?

D4MIL

[Greek]

so what do i do? not travel? should i be letting this solo act stop me from doing the things i love to do?

No, you should not. Decide where you want to go. Research. Compare. Use Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz...then go. The brutal reality, sister, is that if you want to travel at this time, you will be solo. So what? Go anyway. Or invite your girlfriends to join you. Organize a girls' trip. Live YOUR life!
Greek

[DumpedforMIL]

greek .. it was a rhetorical question. i wasn't going to let this stop me from travelling.

you suck it up and find a way.

with me, my friends are either all married .. yes, i have no divorced friends. no widows, and no single girl friends. everyone has kids or grandkids. i'm the only one without kids or a h. most cannot afford the time due to family obligations. i don't expect them to take a week off for me.

or, they are all recent college grads. there's a 12 year age gap between me and them, not to mention the amount of disposable income.

i've done my homework. i've checked out all of those sites, called several agencies, and there's nothing they can do. i need to scale down my idea of a vacation. the vacations i want to take are a bit more costly than i expected.

my best option is to create my own vacation. so we'll see.

d4mil

[Greek]

greek .. it was a rhetorical question. i wasn't going to let this stop me from travelling.

Okie-dokie. I think I got that.

with me, my friends are either all married .. yes, i have no divorced friends. no widows, and no single girl friends. everyone has kids or grandkids. i'm the only one without kids or a h. most cannot afford the time due to family obligations. i don't expect them to take a week off for me.

Not for you ~ with you. With some notice, I'd be willing to bet plenty of married girlfriends - esp. w/ kids - would love an opp to get away with another friend. Probably just what they would need actually, for a little perspective. It could be a win/win - good for them and goodness for you. Won't know until you ask.

my best option is to create my own vacation. so we'll see.

d4mil

Hope it goes well
Greek

[Forrest Gump]

"please excuse my harshness .. "

"if you don't know what your H wants, then you need to ask him, validate him, and learn to ask the right questions. active listening."

So.. where have you done this.. Dumped?

Please point to the post.. cause I missed it.

[Forrest Gump]

"but if our sitches aren't unique, then most advice would apply to all sitches."

Advice does. It just depends on how you read it. It is the context of the advice.

"for sure. but i will think twice about wanting someone to provide and protect me. there will always be a voice that says "don't be fooled by these empty promises. it's a trojan horse that will come back and bite you."

Do you really think.. that from post 1.. I did not see that? Maybe I should have just stopped posting once I saw that. How would that have worked out? I am not here to have you waste my time. But if that is how you want to live your life.. go ahead.

"if this advice is being given by a vet who has been there, why isn't it working? then you realize the person isn't in the right frame of mind to start doing the work. this problem still exists in newcomers."

Working is so subjective. Is the newcomer doing things exactly as they report to DB.com? Most likely not. So.. is it the vet that failed.. or the newcomer? Is it not the Newcomers job.. to really follow direction? They came.. they posted.. but did they listen? This issue will always be in the Newcomer section. Look at Puppy's goodbye.. heck look at any vets goodbye.

People need to be prepared.. that is what the vets will do.

It is still up to the Newcomer to make sure they follow the Vets advice.

The vet expects failure.. and still tries to lead. But it can become frustrating to do. You can only come up with so many ways to say it.

"we're in our own fog. however, you have to let them experience what it's like to be completely powerless and rotten. only then, can they decide that they don't want that."

So.. now you have cleared the fog? Do you understand yet?

I knew.. from post 1 that me and you would be right here.. fighting it out.

You very likely won't like me.. cause I am gonna beat you up.

I am OK with that.

Cause from the start.. I told you all you had to say was "Forrest.. go away."

Dumped.. Who do you want to be?

Time is up..

I won't let you roll out like this.

Unless you tell me too.