It strikes me just how much we all have in common as opposed to our differences.
Let's take MLC out of the equation for a minute...
Over here we preach detachment, boundaries, regaining one's sense of self and truly taking a look inside to own your own faults and shortcomings, to make changes which are consistent with your own sense of self and based on the truth (some of which comes from valid and real complaints by the WAS). We preach doing this in order to make huge, potentially life altering decisions from a place of compassion, understanding and peace as opposed to making those same decisions based on anger, hurt, resentment and pride.
Yes, we see all kinds of noobs (and others ) with poor boundaries who are reacting (or not reacting at all) out of fear. I also see it in Newcomers and Infidelity, because ultimately, all the advice in the world won't change the behaviour until the LBS in question is ready.
Personally, I don't think everyone who's posting in MLC has a spouse in Crisis (midlife, quarterlife, identity or otherwise!) ... but that is not my call to make. I can only tell you what I've seen and experienced.
There is a large amount of anecdotal evidence which supports the idea of a "personal life crisis". The real kicker seems to be the emotional trauma experienced in adolecense WITHOUT the support and coping skills to properly process the event. I'm sure most people have these experiences, and I'm also sure that the trigger event can be much less "traumatic" than other events which do NOT lead to PLC for certain individuals. The pre-PLCer experiences this event, and then suppresses it, never learning proper coping skills as they move forward into adulthood.
As adults we all face trials and tribulations. Childrearing, financial pressure, family issues, you name it. Lots of us live in marriages built on habit and familiarity, taking our partners and ourselves for granted. At some point (frequently after another traumatic event), ALL of us feel like we are getting older and question what we want out of life. Then we look for answers. Some transition through this without as much hardship. Many decide to escape the "harsh" reality of aging/boredom and look elsewhere for their youth to be recreated. These folks are capable of looking at their lives and making choices but until they are held accountable, they don't. And then there is the group, IMO, that are not currently capable of looking inside themselves - regardless of the boundaries and consequenses they face because those consequences are much less painful then the internal closet-cleaning required to reconcile their issues. Childhood sexual, physical and/or emotional abuse, parental alcoholism, sudden death of a loved one, abandonment, neglect ... any or many never dealt with, never counselled, which simmer into a profound depression we call a "crisis". PLCer's, IMO, can not face their current issues until they go back (often literally, via regression) and deal with the emotional devastation they felt as adolecents.
Both sandboxes deal with the same symptoms. Yes, any infidelity is traumatic and abusive to the LBS. No it should not be tolerated or condoned. But over here we advocate getting yourself to a place where you are making decisions from a truthful, compassionate place - and yes, that takes some time. Once there, do what you want. Stand, don't stand. Wait, don't wait. Walk, don't walk. But be clear about what you are doing and WHY. RESPOND to situations instead of REACTING.
Much of what you folks see as "doormat" are LBS's still trying to get themselves to a place where they are ready to set and enforce boundaries. It's the same in all the sandboxes boys. If Puppy were here, he'd tell you ... I was no different in Newcomers long before I found the MLC board. I was not ready to live with the consequences of my boundaries so I was unable to enforce them. I learned that skill here, as a result of getting real with myself about my beliefs, my dealbreakers (ie Pup's Boundaries of Personal Integrity) and my core values.
No one over here wants to see anyone "Standing" by letting their spouse cake-eat, be abusive, create greater financial difficulty, etc. "Standing" (and for the record I am not a fan of all the terminology) is about owning your own values, standing up for what you believe in, setting appropriate boundaries and generally "getting a life" ... and I don't mean hitting the clubs on a Saturday night. GAL is supposed to be about LIVING and moving forward.
What we refer to as standing is really not very different from what you guys tell the LBS to do in the other forums. LIVE as though they are not coming back. We advocate not dating for obvious reasons (Robx if I remember correctly you disagree with this one, but Time I believe I read that you do not agree with dating until the divorce is actually final so even outside the MLC board there are a variety of opinions) and we advocate compassion in that we don't turn into pr!cks when dealing with our WAS.
MLC, or whatever you want to call it, is not an excuse for bad behaviour, but I do see it as an explanation for a set of self- and family destructive behaviours displayed by many. Doesn't mean we shouldn't detach, protect ourselves, move forward with our lives. I've used the cancer analogy before: I was challenged ... if my H had cancer would I stand by him? I said well, if that cancer caused him to engage in those same self and family destructive behaviours, maybe not. But I would certainly have compassion about the illness driving his behaviour. I would certainly acknowledge that he must be in obscene pain to engage the way he had. And then I would live my life. Maybe I would hope the cancer got cured and hold out for reconciliation while moving forward, maybe not. My choice. Based on understanding and compassion for the truth of the situation.
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
D7 continues to chat about OW and OWD7. She told me that OW took her shopping after picking her up at school. I managed to stay calm and nod and smile (all the while texting someone to help me stay calm!).
OW does not have my permission to pick my children up from school. Period.
Some of you might disagree with me, but I do not see this as "different parenting approaches". There is tons written on when/how and how much to expose children to the OP. Yes, I get that it is done and I can't turn back time. But I do feel like he needs to know how I, as their MOTHER, feel about this. Will it matter? Not likely. Not why I'm telling him. I am their mother and as such I have a responsibility to do what is best for them. For me, that includes a conversation with their father about the potential ramifications of this.
I know he won't hear anything I say. As far as he's concerned I'm just the jealous, bitter ex if I try to express anything related to the OW.
I signed up for a Positive Parenting From Two Homes course. H had asked for the info so I emailed him to let him know that I had registered. I told him that the first available course is in January. I also said that I was uncomfortable waiting until January to discuss the one outstanding issue we seem to be unable to make peace with. I asked if he would be open to a discussion with a mediator or a therapist present to help us try to find some middle ground.
H replied that he too would register for the course and yes he thinks a sit down with our MC as third party would be a good idea.
I do not have an expectation that he will do anything based on the sit down, but then I will know that I did what I could to protect the kids. I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that I have a little hope that once presented with the info from an objective third party he might slow down …. Not an expectation, just a hope. I have a feeling she’s on the cusp of moving in. At first I thought they would wait a couple of months, but he’s moving this weekend and since they’ve been spending 24/7 together I’m sure it’s on the agenda.
Last night D7 asked me “why do we see OW so much?” I really didn’t know how to answer that so I said “Sweetie, you’ll have to talk to Daddy about that.”
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
PEI, First, let me say that I just had a chance to read your post from Lance's thread today that you reposted and it really is probably the most insightful post I have read here.
Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3
Much of what you folks see as "doormat" are LBS's still trying to get themselves to a place where they are ready to set and enforce boundaries. It's the same in all the sandboxes boys. If Puppy were here, he'd tell you ... I was no different in Newcomers long before I found the MLC board. I was not ready to live with the consequences of my boundaries so I was unable to enforce them. I learned that skill here, as a result of getting real with myself about my beliefs, my dealbreakers (ie Pup's Boundaries of Personal Integrity) and my core values.
This right here gets at the heart of everything. Huge difference in laying down a boundary and laying it down once you are ready for the consequences.
Thank you so much for the time you put into that.
Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3
Last night D7 asked me “why do we see OW so much?” I really didn’t know how to answer that so I said “Sweetie, you’ll have to talk to Daddy about that.”
The kids know so much more than we give them credit for. I know this hurts to hear her ask this. You responded perfectly.
You know what is amazing to me? The kids actually at times worry more about us the parent than they do about mom and dad not being together for themselves.
Eric's daughter did it when she was worried if he would have food to eat or if he would be lonely. I think you will find that your kids are going to worry about you as the R between your H and the OW progresses.
I think it is important to show our kids, not just tell them that we will be alright when they are not with us. This will be a source of alot of anxiety for them and it is our job to assure them we will be okay.
Hang in there...
Cheers
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
Thanks Missher, and J3B, and anyone else who commented on the thread or via text ... I have no idea what it takes or how to sticky something but if it warrents it then by all means ...
That post has been brewing in me for quite a while. There just seems to be some basic missunderstandings floating around and I wanted to lay it out as I see it.
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Welcome to my pity party. Can I take your coat? Bar’s open in the corner ... well stocked with Key Lime vodka and lavender induced gin ... mmmmmm, thanks Grit. Eric is mixing the drinks though so watch out, they’re likely girly but strong ... hey Bear, can you toss me a Bud Lite Lime? I think I’m in the mood for a beer ... Missher and WS are discussing the merits of red wine if anyone is so inclined ...
I am angry. Pissed the f@ck off. And not at anyone or anything in particular. Just life and my sitch and blah, blah, blah. And before anybody starts hurling lumber ... just read all the way through ... I know I’m choosing to be here, I just haven’t decided how long I’m gonna stay ... got some great advice last night about writing it out so here I am.
Why am I so damn mad? Let’s lay it out ....
> I don’t want to work where I work. Period. It really has lost any sense of meaning for me since the beginning of this whole drama. I want to help people, not push paper around a government machine until I can’t see straight.
> Money. I’m having trouble adjusting and things are TIGHT. The thought of Christmas being just around the corner and the fact that I have 3 small kids puts a knot in my stomach.
> I have a fantastic business opportunity sitting in front of me that I can’t seem to make enough time for. This could help with both of those ^^^ if I could just get serious and get consistent. Time ... never seems to be enough f’ing time.
> My house. When we originally bought this place it was because it had potential ... translate ... needs work! The backyard looks like a bomb went off ... literally. I downed tree, a baby barn that’s ½ dismantled, a deck that’s half taken apart. Add to that all the cosmetic stuff that needs to be done (all the bedrooms, living room, kitchen, all the trim work and both bathrooms need a coat of paint), the fact that the ceiling lights in two bedrooms just mysteriously stopped working and the basement needs to be insulated ... well ... bleh.
> I love a man I can’t be with. That’s a whole ‘nother story but suffice it to say, frustrating doesn’t come close to describing that one.
> MLC. Yep, that pr!ck pisses me the f@ck off too. I see so many people, so many marriages, so many children .... suffering as a result of MLC ... screw it, we’ll call it PLC. So much devastation and hurt caused by emotional trauma in adolecence. Sure there are generations we can’t do anything about now, other than to compassionately love our family and friends though their experiences, but God there must be something we can do as parents ... as a society to accept that the emotional tools we give, or more importantly, DON’T give our children are so vitaly important down the road.
> The early and intense of exposure of my kids to the OW. They are not being given time to adjust to anything ... honestly, they’ve put in the advanced OP Immersion program ... and it’s not right, it’s not what is best for them. But guess what ... that’s his “parenting choice”. I call BULLSH!T on that one. But it doesn’t matter. And that sucks.
> The fact that H is “apparently” living his white picket fence dream. And yes, I say apparently because I have no idea how happy he is or he isn’t ... but I will say if he’s not then he’s one hell of an actor. Funny thing is, it’s not even that I DON’T want him to have it, I just want it too. It is what it is.
> Other sitchs. There are days where I read and read here on the boards, and I feel lifted up. Strengthened by the support, friendship and messages of positivity and hope. Then there are days where I wonder why some can’t just catch a break. WTF? Seriously ... sometimes I just sit in awe and think I know He doesn’t give us anything we can’t handle, but why the hell does He trust us so much (nickle someone??? maybe you B-lady)?
Bleh.
Sad, I know ... not all that stuff ^^^ ... No, the fact that I am sitting here whining about it.
Where’s my “practise what you preach”? Where are my silver linings now? They’re coming ... I know it ... I can feel it ... I had to get this sh!t out of the way first ...
Shake it off ... reframe it ... let go of the “poor me”...
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I'm going to address a few things above, because I go through exactly what you are every so often where you just get overwhelmed and angry at a lot more than the situation with the relationship. I think at those times the other things loom so large you feel like you have nothing left.
The Christmas thing. I know this must be really bad for people with kids; I don't have kids but I already pulled this one with family. I said PLEASE don't buy me "things." I can't reciprocate. I just can't. If you feel you have to give me something, then help me pay a car repair bill or pay my lawn mower off. And I'll probably do homemade gifts for people--I was thinking the whole "make a pretty cake mix in a ball jar" idea would be inexpensive but a nice gift that I would want to receive if you know what I mean. With your kids, I know they'll understand if you explain to them that gifts are going to be limited this year, and maybe get them a small number of things or one major thing they REALLY want and just spend time with them and keep your family traditions going. They will understand you are doing your best.
Your house/yard. Ok this one gets me all the time. Somedays I say that I'll never be able to take care of this much alone, that I should give up. And then EVERYONE in my life says "NO!!!" and talks me down. So this is what I do when that happens. I compartmentalize tasks. I make a list of small things. Things that can be completed in 30 min. or less. Sometimes I just make the list in my head and not on paper. Then in a week I try to knock out 2 or 3 things. Like, "clear the area in one garden bed and cover for the winter." I do it, finish it, and there is small progress.
I have a dead tree--20 feet high--and tons of trees that need pruned. I have a brother who can do this for me--but I have to wait like 6 months till he can get a free weekend. Oh well. I don't have a choice but to wait. I'm not beating myself up about it.
If it looks like a bomb went off, whatever. You are doing your best. And the indoor stuff, well yeah, I could say all that needs done to my house too. But you know what?? When my H was here it needed done too, and neither of us sat around stressing over it all.
I think all of us have this tendency to try to, as my sister says, "build Rome in a day" and get our houses and yards and EVERYTHING in our lives in order and perfect once we are alone, and we didn't have this attitude when we were with them, so we need to stop being so hard on ourselves now.
So I guess what I'm sayin as far as these things go is to not get too frustrated by them. Try to tackle small tasks, to chip away at house problems bit by bit, and tell yourself it will never "all" be fixed, but you won't let it get to you. Face it you're taking on the responsibility of two people now, and you are doing your best.
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
> The fact that H is “apparently” living his white picket fence dream. And yes, I say apparently because I have no idea how happy he is or he isn’t ... but I will say if he’s not then he’s one hell of an actor. Funny thing is, it’s not even that I DON’T want him to have it, I just want it too. It is what it is.
I don't know your H so I can't make blanket statements. But I'd bet a whole hell of a lot, he's NOT happy. Deep inside I really doubt it. I thought the same thing about my H. He went on diving trips to the keys, had an OW, going to parties with friends etc. Meanwhile, I'm stuck dealing with a young teenage D who has depression issues herself, have a yard that resembles yours, trying to take care of a whole house, paying bills, working, etc. It doesn't seem fair. But in talking with H, he revealed that he was FAR from happy. The actions that we see are them TRYING to convince themselves they are happy. We act "as if" because it's how we heal. They act "as if" because they are trying to find happiness externally. We have the benefit of knowing that happiness comes from within. Their search will be filled with short term moments of enjoyment but deep down depression. The pride of being a good mom, of finally clearing that pile of wood from the yard, of knowing that you can do more than you ever thought. THOSE are what make us stronger and better. I know you know this. I know you're just having a crappy day and I get it. But don't for one minute convince yourself he's happy because deep down they KNOW the mess they're making. They just work hard to pretend it doesn't matter. ((PEI))
"Love me when I least deserve it, for that is when I need it the most"
M18 Me39,H42 D16 Bomb 1/10 Moved out 3/10 OW 6/10 H wants to R,OW gone 11/10 H moves back 5/11 H wants to wear rings again 9/11
