Are you advocating dating his wife *while* she's sleeping with the OM? Not sure that gets him what he wants. If I was unmarried in what I thought was an exclusive relationship and my SO told me he was going to date someone else, I'd have to reevaluate my life in terms of what is good/healthy for me.
I agree with bringing more love into the R, but not at personal expense. It comes down to what Sinclair is willing and able to do without cost to his well-being.
It comes down to the airline adage: "Put your own mask on first."
Do what is necessary to keep yourself well first, then reevaluate. It *is* possible to do this without damaging the R.
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
I'll let Sinclair come to his own conclusions. When someone says to me "how do I keep doing what I'm doing and preserve my self-respect?", I understand that person accepts what they are doing is placing their self-respect under threat. You obviously disagree.
To Sinclair I would say, I too agree you have shown a lot of strength. I understand where you are at. I lived a very, very similar situation for six months. I showed a lot of strength also. While my wife saw someone else at night and returned in the morning to the house where I looked after our kids, I set coffee out for her every morning and engaged her in gentle, loving conversation. I endured what felt like daily rejection. Still I stayed strong.
Finally, after six months I just couldn't take it anymore and I insisted we tell our kids we were separating, that their mother had been sleeeping at her studio for six months and returning in the morning while I did everything I could to keep the family together and that we were going to share the house every week from here on out so they wouldn't be uprooted.
After several weeks of keeping communications to finances and the kids, my wife's affair began to fall apart. Now my wife says they're just friends and they only e-mail occasionally (for lots of reasons I won't go into, I believe this) and she's warming up to me and showing signs she wants the family back. That's all good except....
Now I realize the true cost of pushing myself to the limit when I was being 'strong' earlier. I feel damaged. It's like exerting yourself when you're full of adrenaline and when it wears off you find out you hurt yourself when you pushed through the pain threshold. Every time I see my wife now I feel a negative jolt. She recently described me as acting like 'a cornered animal' at times. I don't argue with her and validate even that but now I know that's what happens when you endure emotional abuse over an extended period of time.
I know I'll be ok because, like you, I really am strong. But I don't if I'll ever be able to forgive my wife for the hurt I endured before I detached and that more than anything else is now the biggest danger to my marriage. And to complicate things further she sometimes now acts thoughtlessly as if I can 'take anything'. Guess where she got that idea....
I hope you show yourself love and care. Best wishes.
Been catching up on your still kinda of new sitch. 11/24 was your first posting. You have had some ups and downs which is normal.
In your first post you said:
Originally Posted By: sinclair
This prompted a discussion regarding my boundaries: that I could not date her if she was dating OM and that her dishonesty was harming our friendship.
Has this boundary/sitch changed? DB is about doing what works. Yes? Has this boundary been enforced consistently? Has she contacted OM? I would also caution you that many have had false R of the M and promised no contact of OP. Not trying to rain on you but we all wanted to R so badly that there are times I needed to take off the rose colored glasses.
Someone once told me that you need to believe 0% of what they say and only 50% of what actions you see. It worked for me and may work for you.
A few final thoughts:
Marriage is about two people being in a committed R. Always remember that you can only change you. Relationships take work and now you are willing to work. Reconciliation can take time. (years if you read some stories here) Proceed slowly I know that you can achieve your goals. (with hard work) A wise man knows his limits. GAL Engage what is working and not what doesn't.
Remember that you are your #1 advocate.
My thoughts are with you,
will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
Always remember that you can only change you. Relationships take work and now you are willing to work. Reconciliation can take time. (years if you read some stories here) Proceed slowly I know that you can achieve your goals. (with hard work)
Always remember that you can only change you. You can change other people's behaviors by changing your behavior.
Relationships take work and now you are willing to work. Reconciliation can take time. (years if you read some stories here) Proceed slowly.Absolutely. If he's proceeding slowly, there's no reason not to date her and lose all the ground he's gained. If you missed the ground he gained--go back and read his previous threads--I noted it. If you want to achieve your goal it's extremely important to note when you've achieved baby steps along the way.
And that's the piece that folks are missing here--you cannot expect the whole ball of wax at once in most situations. You build the baby steps. Sinclair has attracted his wife back. Make no mistake his wife wants to be dated--and he has a chance to woo her a bit--give her the appetizer, by doing so.
Should someone rengate at full steam ahead when their partner is having an affair--probably not. You have to be careful about absolute statements because what works for one marriage doesn't work for another.
And yet--no one here, includign myself answered the real question:
How is the friendship game played.
Easily--if this is your choice. You just become her friend, and friendship isn't a game, and you wait for the affair to burn out and offer the dating option when she is completely done.
It's your relationship. You know the level of emotional draw for the two of you, and you don't describe it on the board to any level of detail--so NO ONE CAN PREDICT whether it's better for you to date her or be her friend.
You always have more options than you think you do. One thing--whatever you do -- unless you are having an adverse interpersonal reaction give your plan, whatever you choose 2-3 weeks (and the holidays can take longer) before you change directions. In fact...staying on the course you have been on and giving it a little more time is not a bad idea.
I'll let Sinclair come to his own conclusions. When someone says to me "how do I keep doing what I'm doing and preserve my self-respect?", I understand that person accepts what they are doing is placing their self-respect under threat. You obviously disagree.
To Sinclair I would say, I too agree you have shown a lot of strength. I understand where you are at. I lived a very, very similar situation for six months. I showed a lot of strength also. While my wife saw someone else at night and returned in the morning to the house where I looked after our kids, I set coffee out for her every morning and engaged her in gentle, loving conversation. I endured what felt like daily rejection. Still I stayed strong.
Finally, after six months I just couldn't take it anymore and I insisted we tell our kids we were separating, that their mother had been sleeeping at her studio for six months and returning in the morning while I did everything I could to keep the family together and that we were going to share the house every week from here on out so they wouldn't be uprooted.
After several weeks of keeping communications to finances and the kids, my wife's affair began to fall apart. Now my wife says they're just friends and they only e-mail occasionally (for lots of reasons I won't go into, I believe this) and she's warming up to me and showing signs she wants the family back. That's all good except....
Now I realize the true cost of pushing myself to the limit when I was being 'strong' earlier. I feel damaged. It's like exerting yourself when you're full of adrenaline and when it wears off you find out you hurt yourself when you pushed through the pain threshold. Every time I see my wife now I feel a negative jolt. She recently described me as acting like 'a cornered animal' at times. I don't argue with her and validate even that but now I know that's what happens when you endure emotional abuse over an extended period of time.
I know I'll be ok because, like you, I really am strong. But I don't if I'll ever be able to forgive my wife for the hurt I endured before I detached and that more than anything else is now the biggest danger to my marriage. And to complicate things further she sometimes now acts thoughtlessly as if I can 'take anything'. Guess where she got that idea....
I hope you show yourself love and care. Best wishes.
Edmond, you are very logical and have a good perspective. I think it may be that the both of them living separately gives him some play room, and he doesn't show the level of pain you talk about. There are differences. I think it could be excruciating living in your situation.
Reconciliation can take time. (years if you read some stories here) Proceed slowly.
Originally Posted By: dbmod
Absolutely. If he's proceeding slowly, there's no reason not to date her and lose all the ground he's gained. If you missed the ground he gained--go back and read his previous threads--I noted it. If you want to achieve your goal it's extremely important to note when you've achieved baby steps along the way.
I never said that he shouldn't celebrate the baby steps. What I said (reworded) is he needs to be cautious b/c there are going to be ups and downs.
IMHO, he needs to chart a course that will be both beneficial if he remains in his M or if his M ends in D. I am an advocate of marriage but it doesn't always work that way. The spouse left behind can take responsibility and change for their part of the M only. His W has to do her work for their M to survive.
End of meta-discussion on someone else's thread for me.
Sinclair,
IMO you need to do what is right for you and what is working for you.
I would not make the choice to live with someone that is an active R outside the M. It would take a strength that I don't have. I would be more than willing to work on a M if there was NC between W and OM. (That would be a deal-breaker for me)
Where do you stand. Knowing that may help lead you to your answer about friendship?
My answer: If you don't want to know don't click
Click to reveal..
no marriage=no friends
will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
Marriage is about two people being in a committed R. Always remember that you can only change you. Relationships take work and now you are willing to work. Reconciliation can take time. (years if you read some stories here) Proceed slowly I know that you can achieve your goals. (with hard work) A wise man knows his limits. GAL Engage what is working and not what doesn't.
Remember that you are your #1 advocate.
Originally Posted By: williaij
Always remember that you can only change you.
Originally Posted By: dbmod
You can change other people's behaviors by changing your behavior.
I see it differently. You can change your behavior. They can still choose OP or they can choose Sinclair.
Originally Posted By: williaij
Relationships take work and now you are willing to work. Reconciliation can take time. (years if you read some stories here) Proceed slowly.
Originally Posted By: dbmod
Absolutely. If he's proceeding slowly, there's no reason not to date her and lose all the ground he's gained.
I believe that you said that there are no absolutes.
Originally Posted By: dbmod
You have to be careful about absolute statements because what works for one marriage doesn't work for another.
End of clarification.
You are still in my thoughts.
Will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
With all due respect dbmod, Sinclair is not in LRT because a firm boundary has not been enforced.
We ALL want our marriages to work. But it is absolutely crazy to think that one should continue acting "as if" when your spouse is having relations with another.
Maybe I'm to much of a traditionalist but my W can't see me and OM.
She can however CHOOSE to stop seeing OM and work on our marriage.
If that's too much to ask of W then so be it...
M: 42 - W: 41 - M: 18 - T: 23 - D:16 S:14 EA - July 2010 NC w/EA - Nov 2010 Piecing - Jan 2011 I ask for div - Jan 2012 Div papers filed - Mar 2012 I move out - July 2012 Divorce final - Nov 7, 2012
