New here....Major Vent

[SillyOldBear]

You DO need to do at least one 180. Not to get her to have sex with you, just because you need it for yourself.

You DO need to GAL. Not to get her to have sex with you, just because you need it. Because it will make your life better for you.

You asked her whether she wants a divorce . . . was that your way of telling her that you might want one, if not now, then eventually? If so, you're going to have to sit her down and tell her exactly what you mean. I have done both (the passive-aggressive asking whether she wants something, and the scary but necessary speaking of truth) and only one ever got me anywhere.
I'm not blaming you for being passive-aggressive in your situation--it's a normal, even reasonable response--I'm just saying that I've been there and it doesn't work. Closing your eyes when someone throws a jab at your face is normal and reasonable, too, but because it doesn't work, people train themselves not to do it.

I can honestly say I can NOW understand why some people cheat. When you are tired of begging, pleading and saying I need this....and it all falls on deaf ears you must take care of yourself.

You know, it's interesting . . . Ira Glass recently said that his mother specialized in counseling couples after infidelity, and she found that many of her clients agreed that their marriages were happy . . . but they'd still cheated. They were surprised themselves.
In any case, if you can't make it work with your wife, you owe it to yourself and to her to leave rather than cheat. I am NOT advising you to leave, and I realize you're more likely venting some feelings that you don't plan to act on (again, I've been there.) But don't let your thoughts dwell on ways to avoid taking responsibility for what you want too much. If your personal integrity leads you to demand a marriage with a strong sex life, and you find you can't have that with your wife, cheating will almost never make things better. If your wife wants to release you to an open marriage, and you can handle that, that's another story . . . . but as you're clearly finding out, this stuff goes a lot deeper than physical sexual release for most people.

I feel so used. I feel like a roomate or a friend. She wants the perks of the second check, someone to help with the kids, do household stuff, expects me to be a good father and thats it. I honestly have no clue why I even sleep in the same bedroom or bed with her. I could send her a child support check and let her hire a nanny, gardner, and maid and she'd probably not know or care I am gone.

What did she say when you told her all that, verbatim?
Have you done that?
It's harder than it sounds. But I'm dead serious. If that's the way you feel, you're not going to get anywhere unless you can say to your wife, "Honey, here's the thing: I feel used. I feel like your roommate, and I never wanted to be your roommate. I feel like your friend, but I don't want to be just friends. I feel like you want everything from me except the love I'm trying to give you when we have sex. I feel like I'm only valuable because I bring in money and help with the kids, and if you had a nanny and a trust fund to replace me, I might not matter at all around here. I feel like we shouldn't even sleep in the same bed, because we don't really share it as man and wife. I don't know how much of this you've understood before, but this is how I feel."

But that's not enough. Then you say some version of this, and the tough part is, you have to mean it before you say it:

"I realize that's not all your fault, and I don't think you want me to feel that way, but I'm trying to be honest with you about how I feel in our marriage right now. Now, I'm going to be doing some new things to try to make this right. I hope you'll join me when you're ready. If we don't both start making some changes, I don't think we can stay together, because I won't accept a sexless marriage."

Of course that all has to be done in your words, and you'll say some things that aren't there and leave out some things that are. But the gist of it is to tell her the truth about how you feel, tell her you accept responsibility but also hold her responsible, and commit to doing something about it . . . . and honestly tell her what you're afraid of and what the consequences are if you (both) fail to deal with the problems.

[Arkansasguy]

Here's a woman's view, again. I posted to you before but do not recall you responding so, one more time...

Thanks for the replies. All I can say is this really [censored].
Nothing has changed.

well, What did YOU do to help things change?

I noticed zero response to the issues I raised to you, as a woman.

If you are going to check into "sex statistics" to keep score (super helpful...NOT), check this one.

1) Women report their lowest sex drive occurs in the first 2-3 years after the birth of their 2nd (or last) child.

2) Women report their h's contribution to child care and housework 60% LOWER than their h's describe...

You said the SL used to be really good before the kids--that's good news. She knows what it's like for it to be good.

Imo, it's a 3 fold issue: Why her sex drive is lower now...

1) it's A Natural hormonal cycle--she can see a doctor for this. But she may have to change forms of birth control and that has its' own issues. YOU can change with condoms but Idk how you two feel about those. IF the BC she's using now is dropping her libido plus the natural cycle of it, well, there are lots of options out there that don't affect her hormones as much or at all. If you don't want anymore kids, one of you could get a vasectomy...

2) The weight thing--good for you not whining about that. But SHE knows and SEES it and does not feel attractive. Dim the lights, compliment her sexiness as much as possible & be sincere about it.

3) the way you are YOU handling this & How YOU are treating her.

These are the reasons, I'm betting. You can support her in the first two, and you can COMPLETELY CHANGE #3...

Again I ask, what did YOU do to change things?

If you act half as angry at home as you sound here (I know you might not but...) then I doubt you'll get any. No one's attracted to an angry partner. Talk about feeling used...


I feel so used. I feel like a roomate or a friend.

I sure wonder what SHE would say about^^^.Are you a "friend" to her? Doesn't sound that way. I wonder if she'd say maybe the same thing about her feelings?? Oh and btw,
the victimhood approach you're taking, and your anger, is not attractive and it's NOT Effective. You know, as in "not working"...

DBing is about the simple but radical idea, that we should do WHAT WORKS FOR our marriages, and Do NOT Do, what does not work for them.

We don't delve into childhood issues, undefined historic angst, past abuse or baggage about the time Timmy fell in the well. That therapy certainly has its' place, but it's not here.

Hence the need for new approaches on your end.

I feel for you; I really do.

While denying your spouse sex for non physical reasons, is wrong, it's NOT adultery, so anyone telling you that is prepping for the big justification....

What's to stop that person from claiming they are "not getting enough"

b/c in Penthouse, the "average" man gets sex every day, sometimes twice


....so now, HE gets to cheat.


OR maybe he's getting more than the average BUT IT 'S NOT ENOUGH FOR HIM SO HE GETS TO CHEAT too...

....blah blah blah justifications!...

Instead, if this is reaching the crisis stage, you tell her before hand that this is becoming a deal breaker, but YOU CHANGE your approach too.

Ask her what she needs/wants from you to make love more. What has to happen?

We are not looking for multiple conditions precedent...it's not an obstacle course. But dig deep, what is it that she needs FROM YOU to have sex more often?

If my h asked me that, saying he felt hurt and rejected without sex more often, but wanted to know WHAT HE COULD TO DO TO HELP THINGS MOVE ALONG...(assuming he didn't keep complaining/criticising)

but made me feel as if we were working together to come together... I would be very touched.


I enjoy the intimacy of ml even if I am not in the mood enough to think I'll "get my cookies too". But that depends a lot on how I'm feeling emotionally about h. These days, that's the biggest factor really. When we feel close, not just "lusty" but happy &celebratory, b/c our d22 graduated from college, or ML to comfort b/c of the death of his mother.

So sex is a lot of things that connect us. Not all about the physical release. So, how often Do you massage her back or feet, and touch her NON sexually much? You know, without expectation? Is it more than 3 minutes?

She wants the perks of the second check,

Oh come on, She works 60 hours a week!! I think she's exhausted. Just b/c most women don't die from childbirth in this nation, doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot out of you and yes I mean a good year or so to heal and be yourself again. 2-3 years til you're hormonally where you were before. And she does most of the childcare, so What are you doing while "working from home"?Seriously.... I sure wonder what SHE would say SHE does, vis a vis You, on this issue..food for thought

someone to help with the kids, do household stuff, expects me to be a good father and thats it. (Isn't that what you expect from her, plus sex? And what else is a husband- but a good father, partner and lover? Am I missing something?

Like I said, what would SHE think of that ^^^ comment? We are only hearing your side, of course. It's important for us to envision how she's feeling.

When we had our 2nd child & I was working full time and h was in med school, he studied at home with headphones on. Drove me crazy b/c I did all the work plus the job while he shut us out...sound familiar?

Hey, He wasn't at a bar drinking, granted. But my BIL&SIL stayed with us for 2 months during that time
and both said, "j, YOU have the hardest life of anyone I know !" I swear they said that. They didn't say that to h. He went to work and worked hard, and came home and worked some more on his work. His career/studies were his priority. I did everything else. I was exhausted.

I honestly have no clue why I even sleep in the same bedroom or bed with her. I could send her a child support check and let her hire a nanny, gardner, and maid and she'd probably not know or care I am gone.
This is so infuriating. I am getting mader and angrier by the day.


How's that attitude working for you?

Ask yourself, do You want to be "right" or do you want to be happy? I hear a lot of wounded ego and hurt pride and I DO GET THAT...but don't make choices based on those factors, please.

You have to work on YOU...Did you read the Div Busting books at all??


For as smart as she is she is clueless. She asks why I am grouchy, and I tell her as she stares at me with deer in the headlight look, and replies "you'll get over it". I ask her if she wants a divorce and her reply is " I am still here aren't I?"
I can honestly say I can NOW understand why some people cheat. When you are tired of begging, pleading and saying I need this....and it all falls on deaf ears you must take care of yourself.

HOW ABOUT YOU TRYING A DIFFERENT APPROACH?...for a man "as smart as you are"...sheesh!!! Hard to read that without rolling my eyes. Do you see your own words and not think about them? Hire a DB coach asap b/c I am not getting through to you. Just commiserating only makes it worse.

FYI, No one is attracted to a grouchy man, or a pouting man or a whiner. It's not appealing. You came here awhile back & I posted a long post to you to give you a woman's perspective. And?? Nada.

You return to say "nothings changed" and you're "angry"...well...no surprise.


You report no change in your approach...so, um, what'd you expect?

12X a year is ridiculous. I have NEVER had as little sex until I got married. I am 40, not 80. I am mad and in a foul mood, so I am sorry for rambling.

Goodnight all!

if you actually want things to improve, (and some people don't, They think they do but what they really want is to vilify their spouse and justify an affair)

They do NOT want to work on themselves...they believe the WHOLE problem is their spouses.

They fail to realize [b]how empowering it is to have issues of your own and you can work on those. YOU CAN FIX YOU......You must and can change you, and ONLY YOU...

What are your 180s? What are your GAL? Anytime for those?

So
READ THE DB BOOKS AND IMPLEMENT THEM AND TELL US HOW YOUR NEW APPROACHES WORK OR NOT, AND THEN WE CAN HELP...

YES IT'S FINE TO VENT HERE BUT YOU DO HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS TO CHANGE YOUR MARRIAGE....that's just a fact.
[/b]

Well..here we are 2 weeks later....


What have I done different....

1. I stopped any action that could be construed by her as sexual. (which right now to her is anything other than a goodbye kiss in the morning and a goodnight kiss...provided we go to bed at the same time which is rare.

2. I have stopped any conversation about sex.

3. I have started working on a classic muscle car I have, and some computer games aka Getting a Life (GAL). I can only take the OWN so much as thats all she watches.

Changes
I took over 90+ percent of all household duties. She would cook 1 to 2 meals, and do her laundry and the kids( I mess it up per her) My laundry comes out fine.( I do it myself)
With this. The worked the previous Saturday. I have both kids 3 and 22 months. Wife left at 8am and did not return till 7pm. I had the house cleaned, dishes done, kids dressed and fed. Had dinner layed out ready to throw in the frydaddy when she got home. I contrast that with the weekday she was off and daycare was closed(holiday) but I had to work. House look like a bomb went off.. or we had a home invasion. Lunch dishes in the sink. I didn't say a word...(different) I had to clean up the next day.

With

"1) Women report their lowest sex drive occurs in the first 2-3 years after the birth of their 2nd (or last) child. "

We are there. Add in the depo shot, poor self esteem (weight issues) and probably a sprinkle of depression.

"2) Women report their h's contribution to child care and housework 60% LOWER than their h's describe..."

As for child care. Wife does take the kids to school at 8:30 as I leave before 8am. Wife does not go to work till 9am. I pick up the kids and keep them from 5pm to 7pm when she gets home. I also watch them all day the 1 to 2 Saturdays she works a month. SO I actually spend more alone time with my kids than she does. Not complaining about it.

It just makes me realize that she has physical, psychologial or emotional issues right now. I should be as tired and depressed as she is, but yet am not.

"3) the way you are YOU handling this & How YOU are treating her.
"

With this it does bother me. The lions share of stuff is on me. I work a 40 hour job versus her 60, but factor in the part time stuff I do nights and weekends from home and we break even. I have been biting my toungue and dealing with it.

Apparently wife and I are NOT on the same pages with love languages. I am acts of service....Which to wife is NOTHING, but "stuff I should be doing anyway". Still trying to figure hers out.

"If you don't want anymore kids, one of you could get a vasectomy..."

This is a sore point. I have a son from a previous relationship, With and I have two. SO I have 3 total. I DO NOT want anymore. She wants 1 more in a year or so. I have no clue how she plans to magically get a sex drive in 2 years. Until things get better...which to me would be once a week and she returns to her old self I do not want another kid.
We rarely get any alone time now. Another child would make it worse. IMHO.My parents are out of state and out of picture, and her parents are basically raising her sisters son, so they have little time for our kids, plus her sister is pregnant... Thats another story....Wife only trust her mother or me to watch the kids.

Seriously it is like a soap opera here.
I hope I answered the questions.

[Arkansasguy]

You asked her whether she wants a divorce

Been there done that. My 1st wife starting having an affair a year and a half into the marraige. She dropped the D bomb and rushed through a quickie divorce, when she knew the new guy would hang around. I was very angry with her so I wanted her lying cheating tail out.

So yes, I was blindsided before, and did not want that to happen again. Ironically, Ex-wife was sleeping with her husband(me) and her boyfriend at the same time. The no sex with current wife set all sorts of red flags off for me. I would rather her be honest even if it is painful rather than pretend everything is ok, only to come home and find all her stuff gone and her with it.

What did she say when you told her all that, verbatim?
Have you done that?

To quote her. "You know where the door is, pack up your @@@@ and get out then".

In a nutshell... She does not feel, or acknowledge there is a problem. If there is, it is my fault and I must "deal with it".
I am selfish for wanting sex more than every 4 to 6 weeks, and she is not for depriving me.

I am going to give her some serious space...IE roughly 4 weeks from now before mentioning this again to see what happens.

Back to the book

[Young at Heart]

....What have I done different....

1. I stopped any action that could be construed by her as sexual. (which right now to her is anything other than a goodbye kiss in the morning and a goodnight kiss...provided we go to bed at the same time which is rare.

2. I have stopped any conversation about sex.

3. I have started working on a classic muscle car I have, and some computer games aka Getting a Life (GAL). I can only take the OWN so much as thats all she watches.

...It just makes me realize that she has physical, psychologial or emotional issues right now. I should be as tired and depressed as she is, but yet am not.

....Apparently wife and I are NOT on the same pages with love languages. I am acts of service....Which to wife is NOTHING, but "stuff I should be doing anyway". Still trying to figure hers out.

A couple of thoughts.

While a good 180 is probably to stop any action that can be construed as sexual, be sure that you don't stop any actions that can be seen as "affectionate."

Let me elaborate on that a bit. By taking the pressure to perform sexually off the table, she still needs to feel loved. Feeling loved by another human being is very important.

Speaking of which, you really do need to figure out her languages of love. You really need to either talk to her about it or conduct some "sociological experiments" to learn which languages of love resonate with her. It really shouldn't be that hard to figure them out. Since acts of service is your biggie and she doesn't seem to be doing that, lets rule it out for the moment as one of her primary or secondary LL. That leaves (1) presents, (2) quality time, (3) words of affirmation or praise, (4) touch. Since she hasn't been touching you, we can probably also rule out touch. That narrows things down to (1), (2) or (3). Go out and buy her a thoughful present and tell her how much she means to you and see what the result is. If that doesn't seem to do much for her, get a babysitter, and take her out to dinner and spend time talking to her and listening to her, take her home and let her relax, then in the morning spend time with her again listening, validating, and letting her rant. If that doesn't seem to get a rise out of her then in you quality time tell her how proud you are of her devotion to her family to work 60 hour weeks and how important what she is doing for your family. Do it with conviction, so she feels appreciated. See if that brightens her mood. Conduct a set of sociologocial experiments until you find out what your wife's languages of love are then start using them to make her feel loved.

When she starts feeling loved, she may start to treat you better in the way you want to be treated.

As to your GAL projects of working on a muscle car and computer gaming. My view is work on the muscle car, but drop the computer gaming, instead take up something physcial. My suggestion would be to take up running, swimming, hiking, weightlifting, a martial art, ballroom dancing, country line dancing, yoga, rock sport climbing, etc. Something that will find a challenge, would like to be able to do, improve you physically, give you new skills, is somewhat "alpha male" in your wife's mind and will cause both you and your wife to view you in a whole different light.

My perspective on GAL is that it is kind of the ultimate 180. It is you changing who you are and improving yourself in ways you didn't think possible and doing something that changes how you view yourself and how your wife views you. It gives her something she can not ignore and forces her to say "he is changing, he is capable of change." It also gives her something to be "proud" about you and your ability to acoomplish something. Finally, it gives her a role model that someone can make huge changes in their life and succeed in things not thought possible.

If weight and body self image issues are some of her issues, you might especially want to do something GAL oriented that will provide her with a role model on what she can do, without you rubbing her nose in it or pushing her.

As someone who was in an SSM and came out the end, I think I know how angry and frustrated you feel. My advice is to forgive her, give her unconditional love, make her feel loved in her languages of love, focus on getting close to your children and making them feel loved, give her space to heal, encourage positive changes she initiates/makes at every opportunity, figure out what you did that contributed to your current problems (we all have some small ownership of our problems), ask her to forgive you for what you did to hurt her (once you have figured it out).

Good luck.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

In a nutshell... She does not feel, or acknowledge there is a problem. If there is, it is my fault and I must "deal with it".
I am selfish for wanting sex more than every 4 to 6 weeks, and she is not for depriving me.

I am going to give her some serious space...IE roughly 4 weeks from now before mentioning this again to see what happens.

I saw your story and the responses and decided to sit quiet for a while to see what you discovered.

On a couple of points already mentioned in Y@H's post...drop the computer games as a GAL strategy. Go find yourself a good exercise strategy that allows you to think and get some exercise at the same time. For example, I walk at least 5 miles per day and that has allowed me to drop more than 40 pounds in the last year. That was not what I set out to do, but that was the result. It does give me space to think and decompress (I spread out my walking schedule so that it all is not in one stretch during a day). But it has also presented an interesting challenge to the structure of our lives.

The time @ work was one of the first things I noticed from your original post. This does not help since as much as half of your waking hours are spent working or commuting.getting ready for work. Is it really necessary or worth it? And consider that part of that might fit into an unconcsous preference not to be together for one or both of you.

The weight is an issue (for her and by extension for you) even if you are not making it a sticking point.

The threat she makes about an affair ending the marriage is her "bright line."

Is a non-sexual marriage your brightline? Its as much a threat as the affair
declaration. And if that's your brightline, you'd best be sure that you are willing to carry it out.

You've already found out what the reaction is when you compare to others, but what happened when you compared to your own relationship before the kids? Does she consider that behavior that she engaged in as being a sexual deviant? After all, that is what she is telling you that you are (now)when she calls you a sex maniac.

Q: Why would she wish to be in the same house with the kids with a sexual deviant? The answer might be that she doesn't and you best be prepared for that.

The withholding of anything that can be construed as remotely sexual (and right now that probably is anything except a good-bye kiss) is a dangerous game and at one-level, your wife probably does need to feel loved even though she does not want affection and intimacy and on that point I agree with Y@H. Don't view the duties you've assumed as either a quid pro quo or a way to give her a temporary break that it will fix anything. You'll likely see that backfire.

The more important point is to diffuse the anger (and that is what it is) over this. Take it on as a project to demonstrate to yourself that you can do this, alone if necessary, with no fanfare or expectation. There is a danger that your wife will feel that you neither "need" her or "want" her, but right now she probably does not even think in those terms except that you can't get along without sex. (Note: you can get along without sex, but your marriage will likely suffer not because of the lack of sex, but because the anger and the lack of intimacy that is available through a sexual relationship).

However, I also agree with you in the interim withdrawal of anything remotely sexual. And I hope you've done that without any fanfare whatsoever. Just know that 4-6 weeks will not be enough time, in all likelihood. Think more like 4-6 months before it even begins to dawn on her that you are not making ANY sexual requests of her. This is where things get tricky as she may just see it as proof of something else (you don't care, want or need her any longer).

I would recommend against turning her away if she comes to you affectionately as that would only reinforce those feelings of not being wanted/needed, etc. But I'd also be prepared to answer the "why" you haven't been pursuing her sexually any longer. Be honest. Its also clear you are frustrated at being turned away and being called a sex maniac. Why would you want to have sex with someone that does not want to be sexual with you or calls you a sexual deviant in the form of "sex maniac?"

You may encounter, through your abstinence, the accusation that you've met someone else. And you might. Just make sure its "you" that you meet and discover and not someone else.

It will likely get a lot worse before it gets better and at some point you may just have to decide that you've had enough. She might be right...it may be your problem and you may have to choose what to do about it. But part of the predicament is that it takes two to solve this problem.

How bad could it get? Well, you could end up arguing all the time and divorce, you (or she) could walk away. Or you could end up like me, in a completely sexless marriage with a spouse that is pretty much a housemate in a shared household arrangement. Its a matter of what you are willing to put yourself though and what you are willing to put up with.

The Captain

[Young at Heart]

+1 on what the Captain says.

Glad to see an old familiar set of keystrokes.

[rh24]

So - hopefully this makes you feel a 'bit' better...but W and I haven't had sex in almost 14 months.

Yeah.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

I check in from time to time. Haven't written anything until just recently.

The Captain

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

So - hopefully this makes you feel a 'bit' better...but W and I haven't had sex in almost 14 months.

Yeah.

Not to be 'competitive,' it can be much, much worse. Try 14 years, 2 months and 14 days!

But who's counting?

The Captain

[Arkansasguy]

In a nutshell... She does not feel, or acknowledge there is a problem. If there is, it is my fault and I must "deal with it".
I am selfish for wanting sex more than every 4 to 6 weeks, and she is not for depriving me.

I am going to give her some serious space...IE roughly 4 weeks from now before mentioning this again to see what happens.

I saw your story and the responses and decided to sit quiet for a while to see what you discovered.

On a couple of points already mentioned in Y@H's post...drop the computer games as a GAL strategy. Go find yourself a good exercise strategy that allows you to think and get some exercise at the same time. For example, I walk at least 5 miles per day and that has allowed me to drop more than 40 pounds in the last year. That was not what I set out to do, but that was the result. It does give me space to think and decompress (I spread out my walking schedule so that it all is not in one stretch during a day). But it has also presented an interesting challenge to the structure of our lives.

The time @ work was one of the first things I noticed from your original post. This does not help since as much as half of your waking hours are spent working or commuting.getting ready for work. Is it really necessary or worth it? And consider that part of that might fit into an unconcsous preference not to be together for one or both of you.

The weight is an issue (for her and by extension for you) even if you are not making it a sticking point.

The threat she makes about an affair ending the marriage is her "bright line."

Is a non-sexual marriage your brightline? Its as much a threat as the affair
declaration. And if that's your brightline, you'd best be sure that you are willing to carry it out.

You've already found out what the reaction is when you compare to others, but what happened when you compared to your own relationship before the kids? Does she consider that behavior that she engaged in as being a sexual deviant? After all, that is what she is telling you that you are (now)when she calls you a sex maniac.

Q: Why would she wish to be in the same house with the kids with a sexual deviant? The answer might be that she doesn't and you best be prepared for that.

The withholding of anything that can be construed as remotely sexual (and right now that probably is anything except a good-bye kiss) is a dangerous game and at one-level, your wife probably does need to feel loved even though she does not want affection and intimacy and on that point I agree with Y@H. Don't view the duties you've assumed as either a quid pro quo or a way to give her a temporary break that it will fix anything. You'll likely see that backfire.

The more important point is to diffuse the anger (and that is what it is) over this. Take it on as a project to demonstrate to yourself that you can do this, alone if necessary, with no fanfare or expectation. There is a danger that your wife will feel that you neither "need" her or "want" her, but right now she probably does not even think in those terms except that you can't get along without sex. (Note: you can get along without sex, but your marriage will likely suffer not because of the lack of sex, but because the anger and the lack of intimacy that is available through a sexual relationship).

However, I also agree with you in the interim withdrawal of anything remotely sexual. And I hope you've done that without any fanfare whatsoever. Just know that 4-6 weeks will not be enough time, in all likelihood. Think more like 4-6 months before it even begins to dawn on her that you are not making ANY sexual requests of her. This is where things get tricky as she may just see it as proof of something else (you don't care, want or need her any longer).

I would recommend against turning her away if she comes to you affectionately as that would only reinforce those feelings of not being wanted/needed, etc. But I'd also be prepared to answer the "why" you haven't been pursuing her sexually any longer. Be honest. Its also clear you are frustrated at being turned away and being called a sex maniac. Why would you want to have sex with someone that does not want to be sexual with you or calls you a sexual deviant in the form of "sex maniac?"

You may encounter, through your abstinence, the accusation that you've met someone else. And you might. Just make sure its "you" that you meet and discover and not someone else.

It will likely get a lot worse before it gets better and at some point you may just have to decide that you've had enough. She might be right...it may be your problem and you may have to choose what to do about it. But part of the predicament is that it takes two to solve this problem.

How bad could it get? Well, you could end up arguing all the time and divorce, you (or she) could walk away. Or you could end up like me, in a completely sexless marriage with a spouse that is pretty much a housemate in a shared household arrangement. Its a matter of what you are willing to put yourself though and what you are willing to put up with.

The Captain

14 years..14 months....No way. I can not see HOW that was done.

Computer games are are sore point. It's OK for her to watch 4 hours of the Opra network 7pm to 11pm...but god forbid I go play COD or a computer or xbox game for half an hour.

Outdoor physical activity is pretty much out the window here as tempuratures are already near 100 with heat indexes in the 105 to 110 range. At 10pm it's still in the 90's and just plain hot.

Work wise, I know she is NOT happy. She is jealous that I am home by 5pm to get the kids, do part time work from home in the evenings and weekends and make as much as she does. She looked into going back to school, but would need to do online classes at night(3 years for a BA).She goes not have a bachelors degree. Again she is pressed for time. I thought about doing an online MBA as I have a bachelors and could do that in less than 2 years online, then I could get a better job, and perhaps she could be a stay at home mom. She didn't seem too keen on the idea.

"You've already found out what the reaction is when you compare to others, but what happened when you compared to your own relationship before the kids? "

She does realize it is substantially less now than before kids. The way you described deviant, puts a perspective on things. No, I don't think she thinks about it that way, but the fact that to her that I seem to want it all the time and see does not allows herself to throw out names and such as she does not have a valid arguement, only excuses.
I'm tired
I have a headache.
The kids might hear.
I am not in the mood.
I have to get up early.
etc....


When we discuss how it was versus now, she complains that she is too tired. Workwise she worked more BEFORE we got married. 9 to 6 Monday thru Friday and every Saturday 9-6.


The more I work on this the MORE I realize that the lack of sex is not a cause but a symptom. She is not happy with her work, her weight, and has focuses her anger on me. No sex is the result.

At some point she is going to need to realize that there is a problem and she will need to work on it. Tine to tough it out for the next 6 months and see what happens.