New here....Major Vent

[Arkansasguy]

I just got the book for my i-pad. I hope it works...

Me-39
Wife-31
S-3.5
D-1.5

Why am I here. I feel my marriage is sex starved. I cried when they said the national average is 85 times a year and mine is 12.

Before kids things were great. After wife got pregnant with #1, we went from 2 or 3 times a week to once every two weeks. After S 3 1/2 was born it went on average 4-6 weeks. After 3 years of this I can take it no longer.

Issues....Well both wife and I work. I work 40 hours at one job and 20 part time from the house. She works 60 hours a week at one job. I handle all the yard work, and a majority of the household stuff. Dishes, cleaning etc. Wife usually bathes the kids and puts them to bed and does the cooking. Wife has weight issues as she is about 40lbs heavier than before kids. I however have been supportive, and her physical apearance does not bother me or caused me not to want intimacy. Wife also claims that her depo shots may be retarding her desire , but yet will not talk to her Dr. about it.

What infuriates me is that she calls me a sex maniac for wanting more than once a month. Anytime I touch her, it's "go away, leave me alone, or what do you want?" Any touch to her is sexual.

Ironically in the midst of all this she states that if I ever cheated the marriage is over. She closes the kitchen, but no going out to eat. I am called selfish for wanting something, yet she does not see herself as selfish for deprieving me. Compromise to her is her way, no middle ground.

I am almost to the point that I feel, she WANTS me to cheat, so we get divorced, and everything is my fault.

I really hope this book can help. I have had a roomate since the kids and not a wife.

[Young at Heart]

First congratulations on finding and getting MWD and her book on SSM. You sound like a prime candidate.

Second, you are about to embark on one hell of a journey of self discovery about you, your wife and relationships.

If you are committed to saving your marriage and you are lucky enough to find that your wife wants to change and stay married to you, you will be able to pull through this and look back on it as a bump in the road to life. Until then it will try your soul.

Everything you have said sounds familiar. The good news is that you have reached your limits and want things to change and have taken a step in trying to figure out what is going on. Once you understand what MWD is saying in her book, you will know that changing yourself, accepting your portion of responsibility for your current marital situation, forgiving your wife, showing her love, may (if you are lucky) work miracles in your relationship.

I too was in an SSM, with a roommate and not a wife. For a long time my wife's idea of affection was nothing more than what a sister might do with a brother..... peck on the cheak or touch on the arm.

Besides MWD's book SSM, the following books helped me understand what was going on in my marriage:

• MWD's SSM
• Chapman's the Five Languages of Love
• Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy
• Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight
• John Gottman's The Seven Principals for Making Marriage Work
• Kliger & Nedelman's Still Sexy after All these Years

Take the time to really learn what each book is trying to teach you. Ask questions about the books. Read on this forum about what others have gone through and see if you can't find someone else who has had a very similar situation and what helped them.

Posting is good therapy. Feel free to rant and ask specific questions.

You are not alone. There are lots of folks who have been in similar situations.

Congratualtions on your courage to seek help and make changes.

I wish you and your family the best of luck

[SillyOldBear]

You are really, really not alone, buddy. Let's look at the things you have in common with a LOT of people who've posted here:

Comparing your sex life to the average? CHECK.
(By the way, if you ask your wife, be prepared for her to tell you once a month is about average. If you tell her about the study you cited, be ready for her to say the respondents were embarrassed to admit the truth. Expect her to say that "everyone" she knows let their sex lives die after a few years of marriage and that's just how life is.)

Everything changed after the kids? CHECK.

"What do you want?" as a response to loving touch? CHECK.
My least-favorite was "Do you HAVE to do that?"

Catch-22 where the LD partner expects the HD partner to be faithful but doesn't work to fix the issues that are driving the HD partner away? CHECK.

Feels like she's actually trying to hurt you on purpose for some reason you can't figure out? CHECK.


Read the book right away. The first BIG thing you'll get from it is that you're not alone. The next BIG thing is that your wife may be just as hurt and confused as you are, believe it or not, even if it didn't start out that way. When my LD wife read the first chapter of SSM, she cried.

She and I have come a LONG way, and I no longer think we're headed for divorce. However, you should be ready for things to get harder in some ways before they can get easier. I went from dreading the next 50 years of my loveless, sexless, lifeless marriage to dreading divorce to slowly working my way back to a marriage I could be happy in. We're not perfect, but we're both making an effort now and happier than we were when we got married.

[Arkansasguy]

Thank you for the replies.

The ironic thing about all this is....

IF my wife came up to me and said "I am going to divorce/cheat on you tomorrow if you don't (mow the yard, clean house etc....) I would wake up and do something!

Turn the tables and she is ok...pack your bags and send child support. It makes no sense to me.. Ok back to my e-reader.

[Young at Heart]

The ironic thing about all this is....

IF my wife came up to me and said "I am going to divorce/cheat on you tomorrow if you don't (mow the yard, clean house etc....) I would wake up and do something!..

So, pretend she said those words.....now go back to your e-reader and figure out hot to DB and win her back. If you can say what you posted you understand part of the problem. In my experience, Getting a Life (GAL) is a very important step in changing things to rebuild a marriage.


Good luck.

[bob48]

good luck with your wife - you'll need it.

We only get your side of the story. It would be great if your wife would post here too.

It sounds as if she is really angry, but doesn't really deal with the anger constructively.

It also sounds like you have totally abrogated your power in the relationship, and that she has no intention in letting you have it back.

It also sounds like you want the marriage way more than she does and have absolutely no bargaining power.

What you need is a sense that if she continues to impose celibacy on you that you have some options...which you have.

All or almost all of the people here advocate for marriage over divorce. I agree. But a marriage shouldn't be used as a club to pound you into submission. It is time to come up with some of your own terms and begin serious negotiations.

You seem to suspect that she wants a divorce. And if she does, your not giving her an excuse for one is only a temporary solution. I don't like divorce either. But, my personal point of view is that if a woman wants to put unreasonable demands on my sex life, then that's a step too far.

When two people marry, there is an understanding (usually) that the couple will remain faithful. But there is also an understanding that they love each other, want to please each other, and will have a reasonable sex life.

Simply depriving a spouse of sex is, in my opinion, as much of a betrayal as adultery. It is sort of adultery in reverse. If you tolerate it, you are going to get more of the same.

Stand up for yourself, and explain to your wife that things DO have to change. If she refuses counseling then go by yourself and get some support and guidance. If you don't think that this can easily go on for another 20 years, think again. I know from my own experience and for many of those who are on this forum. It won't end until you do something to end it.

Why am I here. I feel my marriage is sex starved. I cried when they said the national average is 85 times a year and mine is 12.


What infuriates me is that she calls me a sex maniac for wanting more than once a month.

Ironically in the midst of all this she states that if I ever cheated the marriage is over.

I am almost to the point that I feel, she WANTS me to cheat, so we get divorced, and everything is my fault.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Arkansasguy,

I feel for you. All I can say is that my h and both worked at demanding jobs and then after the birth of our 2nd child, I lost most of my libido. I assume it was hormonal as I was only 32. I recall wondering what was going on and whether it was permanent. I had friends share with me their same experience and all of us had given birth right before the big drop. When the baby turned 2 I began to exercise more (I was in the military) and noticed that my libido was returning, in full bloom. I can't recall which was first, the exercise or the libido but I got in shape and was "back to normal." Same thing happened after baby #3 too, although this time I knew it was temporary and it was.


My point in all this is that I don't believe it's that rare, BUT she does have to talk to someone about it. I'm assuming she enjoyed it more, before the kids?

Also, kudos to you for not mentioning the weight thing but most women who "feel fat" also stop being interested in sex as much do to self esteem and self consciousness.

Bottom line is she needs to feel that while this MAY be a natural but temporary event, it's wearing on YOU, and B/C YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HER HEALTH, you'd like her to find out if she's really alright medically. (Aside from the obvious hormones, I also know a friend who's thyroid activity plunged after childbirth (not saying it's related but her timing sure was weird) and she started on meds and within 90 days was interested again.

Please also have your w read the Five Love Languages by Chapman. In that book it'll become evident to her that YOUR love language or one of them, is sexual. And that "tank" of yours is not being filled. Plus you will learn her love language and be able to fill hers too, and that may work.

If you think she loves you, and I bet she does., then she just really needs to know how it makes you feel undesired and uncared for, etc. At least you'll know you were clear with her and that it was her actual conscious choice to deny you an element unique and exclusive to marriage. So many of my girlfriends are amazed that their h's miss sex that much, b/c those women do not. She needs to know your libido has NOT dropped and it's not abnormally high.

Good luck - you are in the right place. Hopefully this is a temporary stop...

[Arkansasguy]

Thanks for the replies. All I can say is this really [censored]. Nothing has changed. I feel so used. I feel like a roomate or a friend. She wants the perks of the second check, someone to help with the kids, do household stuff, expects me to be a good father and thats it. I honestly have no clue why I even sleep in the same bedroom or bed with her. I could send her a child support check and let her hire a nanny, gardner, and maid and she'd probably not know or care I am gone.
This is so infuriating. I am getting mader and angrier by the day. For as smart as she is she is clueless. She asks why I am grouchy, and I tell her as she stares at me with deer in the headlight look, and replies "you'll get over it". I ask her if she wants a divorce and her reply is " I am still here aren't I?"
I can honestly say I can NOW understand why some people cheat. When you are tired of begging, pleading and saying I need this....and it all falls on deaf ears you must take care of yourself.
12X a year is ridiculous. I have NEVER had as little sex until I got married. I am 40, not 80. I am mad and in a foul mood, so I am sorry for rambling.

Goodnight all!

[Young at Heart]

First posting is good therapy.

I feel for you as I have thought many of the same thoughts at one time. Know that you are not alone or unique.

Now, the basoc set of questions are rather than putting effort into anger, what are you doing to change the situation?

One of the wonderful things about MWD is her practical approach, especially to me 180's and GAL. A 180 is trying something different, since what you have been doing in the marriage isn't working. So, the question for you is what have you tried to do different that has produced results? If you anger has kept you from seeing the results, then what have you been trying differently (in a loving positive way) to change the dynamic in your relationship?

Often times people need to work on Getting a Life (GAL) and making changes in themselves to gain confidence needed to make changes in their relationship. So the question for you is what are you doing to GAL and what accomplishments have you made in your GAL plan?

[25yearsmlc]

Here's a woman's view, again. I posted to you before but do not recall you responding so, one more time...

Thanks for the replies. All I can say is this really [censored].
Nothing has changed.

well, What did YOU do to help things change?

I noticed zero response to the issues I raised to you, as a woman.

If you are going to check into "sex statistics" to keep score (super helpful...NOT), check this one.

1) Women report their lowest sex drive occurs in the first 2-3 years after the birth of their 2nd (or last) child.

2) Women report their h's contribution to child care and housework 60% LOWER than their h's describe...

You said the SL used to be really good before the kids--that's good news. She knows what it's like for it to be good.

Imo, it's a 3 fold issue: Why her sex drive is lower now...

1) it's A Natural hormonal cycle--she can see a doctor for this. But she may have to change forms of birth control and that has its' own issues. YOU can change with condoms but Idk how you two feel about those. IF the BC she's using now is dropping her libido plus the natural cycle of it, well, there are lots of options out there that don't affect her hormones as much or at all. If you don't want anymore kids, one of you could get a vasectomy...

2) The weight thing--good for you not whining about that. But SHE knows and SEES it and does not feel attractive. Dim the lights, compliment her sexiness as much as possible & be sincere about it.

3) the way you are YOU handling this & How YOU are treating her.

These are the reasons, I'm betting. You can support her in the first two, and you can COMPLETELY CHANGE #3...

Again I ask, what did YOU do to change things?

If you act half as angry at home as you sound here (I know you might not but...) then I doubt you'll get any. No one's attracted to an angry partner. Talk about feeling used...


I feel so used. I feel like a roomate or a friend.

I sure wonder what SHE would say about^^^.Are you a "friend" to her? Doesn't sound that way. I wonder if she'd say maybe the same thing about her feelings?? Oh and btw,
the victimhood approach you're taking, and your anger, is not attractive and it's NOT Effective. You know, as in "not working"...

DBing is about the simple but radical idea, that we should do WHAT WORKS FOR our marriages, and Do NOT Do, what does not work for them.

We don't delve into childhood issues, undefined historic angst, past abuse or baggage about the time Timmy fell in the well. That therapy certainly has its' place, but it's not here.

Hence the need for new approaches on your end.

I feel for you; I really do.

While denying your spouse sex for non physical reasons, is wrong, it's NOT adultery, so anyone telling you that is prepping for the big justification....

What's to stop that person from claiming they are "not getting enough"

b/c in Penthouse, the "average" man gets sex every day, sometimes twice


....so now, HE gets to cheat.


OR maybe he's getting more than the average BUT IT 'S NOT ENOUGH FOR HIM SO HE GETS TO CHEAT too...

....blah blah blah justifications!...

Instead, if this is reaching the crisis stage, you tell her before hand that this is becoming a deal breaker, but YOU CHANGE your approach too.

Ask her what she needs/wants from you to make love more. What has to happen?

We are not looking for multiple conditions precedent...it's not an obstacle course. But dig deep, what is it that she needs FROM YOU to have sex more often?

If my h asked me that, saying he felt hurt and rejected without sex more often, but wanted to know WHAT HE COULD TO DO TO HELP THINGS MOVE ALONG...(assuming he didn't keep complaining/criticising)

but made me feel as if we were working together to come together... I would be very touched.


I enjoy the intimacy of ml even if I am not in the mood enough to think I'll "get my cookies too". But that depends a lot on how I'm feeling emotionally about h. These days, that's the biggest factor really. When we feel close, not just "lusty" but happy &celebratory, b/c our d22 graduated from college, or ML to comfort b/c of the death of his mother.

So sex is a lot of things that connect us. Not all about the physical release. So, how often Do you massage her back or feet, and touch her NON sexually much? You know, without expectation? Is it more than 3 minutes?

She wants the perks of the second check,

Oh come on, She works 60 hours a week!! I think she's exhausted. Just b/c most women don't die from childbirth in this nation, doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot out of you and yes I mean a good year or so to heal and be yourself again. 2-3 years til you're hormonally where you were before. And she does most of the childcare, so What are you doing while "working from home"?Seriously.... I sure wonder what SHE would say SHE does, vis a vis You, on this issue..food for thought

someone to help with the kids, do household stuff, expects me to be a good father and thats it. (Isn't that what you expect from her, plus sex? And what else is a husband- but a good father, partner and lover? Am I missing something?

Like I said, what would SHE think of that ^^^ comment? We are only hearing your side, of course. It's important for us to envision how she's feeling.

When we had our 2nd child & I was working full time and h was in med school, he studied at home with headphones on. Drove me crazy b/c I did all the work plus the job while he shut us out...sound familiar?

Hey, He wasn't at a bar drinking, granted. But my BIL&SIL stayed with us for 2 months during that time
and both said, "j, YOU have the hardest life of anyone I know !" I swear they said that. They didn't say that to h. He went to work and worked hard, and came home and worked some more on his work. His career/studies were his priority. I did everything else. I was exhausted.

I honestly have no clue why I even sleep in the same bedroom or bed with her. I could send her a child support check and let her hire a nanny, gardner, and maid and she'd probably not know or care I am gone.
This is so infuriating. I am getting mader and angrier by the day.


How's that attitude working for you?

Ask yourself, do You want to be "right" or do you want to be happy? I hear a lot of wounded ego and hurt pride and I DO GET THAT...but don't make choices based on those factors, please.

You have to work on YOU...Did you read the Div Busting books at all??


For as smart as she is she is clueless. She asks why I am grouchy, and I tell her as she stares at me with deer in the headlight look, and replies "you'll get over it". I ask her if she wants a divorce and her reply is " I am still here aren't I?"
I can honestly say I can NOW understand why some people cheat. When you are tired of begging, pleading and saying I need this....and it all falls on deaf ears you must take care of yourself.

HOW ABOUT YOU TRYING A DIFFERENT APPROACH?...for a man "as smart as you are"...sheesh!!! Hard to read that without rolling my eyes. Do you see your own words and not think about them? Hire a DB coach asap b/c I am not getting through to you. Just commiserating only makes it worse.

FYI, No one is attracted to a grouchy man, or a pouting man or a whiner. It's not appealing. You came here awhile back & I posted a long post to you to give you a woman's perspective. And?? Nada.

You return to say "nothings changed" and you're "angry"...well...no surprise.


You report no change in your approach...so, um, what'd you expect?

12X a year is ridiculous. I have NEVER had as little sex until I got married. I am 40, not 80. I am mad and in a foul mood, so I am sorry for rambling.

Goodnight all!

if you actually want things to improve, (and some people don't, They think they do but what they really want is to vilify their spouse and justify an affair)

They do NOT want to work on themselves...they believe the WHOLE problem is their spouses.

They fail to realize [b]how empowering it is to have issues of your own and you can work on those. YOU CAN FIX YOU......You must and can change you, and ONLY YOU...

What are your 180s? What are your GAL? Anytime for those?

So
READ THE DB BOOKS AND IMPLEMENT THEM AND TELL US HOW YOUR NEW APPROACHES WORK OR NOT, AND THEN WE CAN HELP...

YES IT'S FINE TO VENT HERE BUT YOU DO HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS TO CHANGE YOUR MARRIAGE....that's just a fact.
[/b]