Ok, here we go. In Feb. 2011 wife approached me and said she has started seeing a counselor and really need me to go with her the next week. i agreed...and was attacked in the session, totally blind sided. The tyipical, she's been unhappy for awhile, wonders why I'm distant, etc..her parents who are retired, came up to "live" with us and kids while wife and I "worked on us" in Feb., MC, Marriage Enccounter and the like.
Thought we were making progress, then, early March in Counseling said she wanted separation. I was floored and really hurt like many on here can attest. Her parents still were in the house and I went to live with a relative 25 minutes away. Seeing our four kids 3-4 times a week but still kills me not to see them daily. 30 days later, she filed in April but we were still going to MC- just went downhill fast..counselor sucked. Always sided with her and felt they never offered any solutions. No longer in MC and she is not interested in other reconciliation options, (yet).
Her parents purchased a new house and wife will be moving with kids next weekend and paying them rent, I believe. I have read the DR book and countless others and am beginnning to do the LRT, now. I do not believe there is an affiar and she said that she isn't seeing anyone else. Said still loves me however, hasn't said in several weeks. I've made all the mistakes of pleading, etc., but really could use additional encouragement/ideas. I'm a very involved dad and everyone is in shock over the news. Mainly because people come to ME for advice about marriage as they looked at our relationship as a model...so did I! It's like I don't even know my wife..who is she. I sense early MLC, mild depression and brought that up in MC weeks ago, and they both jumped all over me. I can go on and on..but you all have heard it before. There's NO affair on my end, no gambling, drugs, abuse..Help!
Welcome aboard and I'm sorry you are experiencing this.
Originally Posted By: direction1
In Feb. 2011 wife approached me and said she has started seeing a counselor and really need me to go with her the next week. i agreed...and was attacked in the session, totally blind sided. The tyipical, she's been unhappy for awhile, wonders why I'm distant, etc.
Did she list out more reasons? Can you write out specifics on your next post.
It's all too common to not know WTF happened, but it happens and it happens for many reasons.
You really need to listen to what she said, even if you don't agree with it. No matter what, you can't control what another person thinks or feels.
Why is she unhappy? Is she basing her unhappiness on you or did she say why she is not happy? Each person here is responsible for their own happiness.
Why were you distant? What is she really trying to tell you?
Post as much detail as you can about the "counseling" revelations.
Keep reading DR and I'll give you a list to help support your LRT.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
This was an email exchange (me first, then spouse) before going dark/LRT.
I received your message. Thank you for attempting to let your intentions known. Some things come to mind in and around your comments; first, when you filed, several times you would say. "I'm following my attorney's advice or that's not what my lawyer said," etc. Now, that I have one, your stance has changed. Is it because someone is looking out for my best interest? No, I did not want to have attorney's take over and my actions to reconcile reflect that statement. I am still trying to mend us even after you filed. Doesn't that speak volumes for my love and commitment to our family? Most people would have run for the hills when they got that freedom, packed their bags, and started a new life. Yet, here I am for you..
Why would/should I cooperate when i do not want divorce? I appreciate your desire to be civil, but it is hard, when you tell me I'm impossible to communicate with, don't contribute to the family because of rollercoaster finances, the father and person comments, hide behind caring for the kids, jealous of your income, and on and on. Can you see how that puts ME down? It cuts both ways. All the while, I tell you how proud I am of you, how nice and pretty you are, how great of a mom you are, random acts of kindness with flowers, coffee, friendly emails offering my help. But when I say one thing that contends with you, you jump all over me, why? Please pay attention to your words, as well, because they do hurt and I will do the same.
I continue to pour my heart out to you and our kids for all the right reasons. I am fighting for our marriage and our children's best interest..the attorney is fighting for my life! Don't you see the difference? Divorce is a trap for many years of pain, especially kids. I'm not perfect and have apologized many times for my failures and have made a lot of changes but you won't let me love you to discover how genuine it really is and that's heartbreaking.
We deserve the time and love it takes to work through this. There are countless marriages out there that make it through the depths of despair and become some of the strongest marriages around as a result. I believe this is the ultimate test of our love to each other. And I'm in the middle to doing a 180, but it takes time.
Spouse- Yes, when first filed I was very overwhelmed by the legal language and those were my attorney's words/advice. I will not from here on out use her to hide behind. I will answer for myself. I will file motions, etc. that I request and believe represent the best interest of the kids and me. I will not allow her to make decisions without my input, and if ever that should happen, I will address and correct that immediately. I apologize for using her to hide behind at the initial step; I will not do that again. I hope you will agree to move forward with the same behavior. My stance has not changed because you now have an attorney. When I initially filed I hoped, not necessarily believed, but hoped we still may have a chance. The situation has since proven that it is apparent that there is no longer hope for this marriage to work.
I will continue to work through the divorce in an up-front manner. I am trying very hard to be fair with decision making. I am trying very hard to be nice. It is nearly impossible to do so when you continue to try to repair the marriage as opposed to working through the divorce. When you ask me direct questions that have answers that are difficult to hear, I am honest. The truth hurts you, but I am honest about my feelings. You ask why I don't want counseling and marriage repair? The answer to that question is going to hurt. There is no nice way of explaining why a person wants a divorce.
You ask why you should cooperate? Because it's the right thing to do. Fighting over issues where there is an obvious responsibility on your part further frustrates the situation. It definitely does not show me that you are the changed, reasonable, giving, thoughtful person you are claiming to be. It supports what I've known and it supports the need for this divorce.
I see you feel that I put you down. I never bring up insulting comments. When you ask pointed questions, again, sometimes my truthful answer is hurtful. If you don't want to hear a hurtful response, stop asking me personal questions like why don't you want counseling.
Instead of the randon acts of kindness, direct answers to questions and reasonable responsed that stay on task would be more appreciated. Committing to have the kids with specific times in advance is thoughtful and shows that you respect me and my time. When I try to get a committment from you, you continue to be vague. For example, when you say you'll pick up the kids "sometime in the afternoon" this is not helpful. Saying between 2-2:15, is helpful. If you want to show kindness and respect toward me, please be more specific in regards to the pick up and drop off times. Of course the gestures of coffee and flowers are kind, but for me (not necessarily all women, but for me) it's the common courtesies that make a difference.
I will pay attention to my words. Going forward if you ask me a question that begs for a hurtful response, I'll simply say that I'm choosing not to respond to that question.
I, too, want the kids' best interest. Last night's conversation had nothing to do with the kids; it was about a cell phone and auto insurance. Let's keep our eyes on the conversations at hand so the emotions don't take over.
This divorce is not a trap for our kids. I will not allow that to happen. They are extremely happy and are not struggling because of this. If you and I choose to fight it through, I guess you could say it could be a trap. I choose not to let that happen to me. I am not preparing myself for a fight. I am preparing for a solution. I do see a big difference. As you always say, it's a mindset. My mindset is that we can do this amicably. I hope you can share that mindset with me. I am trying to help us communicate and find common ground as parents, not as a married couple.
Main reasons WAW filed: trust, quick emotioned, distant. She cam across an email that I was taking a couple doctorate courses. Months before, I brought up that I wanted to take a few. She (in retrospect) was adament abhout me not getting in my own way and to rather, focus on my consulting practice. I didn't "hear" her and started to take a some courses. Distant and quick emotioned..the root is because fianaces have been down over the last couple years, and the agreement was for me to take care of the kids more and to supplement the income with my business until the kids were all in school. Spouse is teacher with more stability. Now uses this against me. Have apologized for my shortcomings and not hearing her. All she sees is my faults and not my qualities. Thinks there's peace after divorce...in being single raising four kids? I sense she is getting some real unhealthy advice form co-workers and her parents who are enabling her.
My question to you do you know what you need to change based off what she has said? Are you willing to keep improving yourself through this without expectation that she's going to come back? In other words, do you envision who and how you will live through this?
I'm still curious as to what was said in the counseling sessions. On top of that, the enabling of her closest support group family/friends/coworkers, is not helping, but you have to separate yourself from that, because you have no control over it.
That list up above. Follow it. Better yourself and validate what she feels. Obviously everything is in motion and is unstoppable at the moment. You could jump in front of a moving train and try to slow it down, but you will get hurt in the process.
Words will just appear as you are trying to change her mind or control her([censored] but she's on a mission); action will speak 10 fold. Step away and follow the list up above. Read DR again. Just try to focus on you and let her do what she thinks is right for her. Give her what she's asking for, while you focus on bettering you.
Journal and let anything that comes to mind come out HERE, don't say it to her. This is tough and you will need all the support you can get.
Thanks Faith- Yep, must stay with the LRT. Any suggestions with staying dark eevn though I have four kids? Seems more difficult because we communicate albeit, briefly, to exchange, confirm times/logistics, etc.
Counseling seemed to always come back to "my stuff" never hers and the counselor would side with her, or belittle my points. I "got" she wants me to "make love to her during the day" so she feels more emotionally secure. Her walls went up in March and just won't allow me in, which is hard to take. Tried, the acts of kindness, commuinicating..allowing her to be "heard" it seems when I
Got cut off..she pounces when I defend self..so essentially, this and the above correspondence is when i decided to go dark. She has emailed twice this week about the kids for the weekend and I have once in the first week of going dark. Can't beloeve how fast, heavy, and hard this all came down. From Feb. to April, counseling, sep. D bomb! Like a lot of peole on here wonder, when LRT is in affect, how can spouse see changes when they don't really see you much??
And my actions being demanding, not listening were born out of ego, pride, a sense of being 'right', and a sense of entitlement that I can fix anything...which is an obvious lack of understanding, compassion and sensitivity of my W's feelings and needs. Can't believe I am here...
