How long is long? I am so frustrated and feeling so rejected today. I know I need to focus on myself and I am trying. But, when will he wake up? He is ruining our family. NO contact with the kids. I don't get it!! But OW has a child. Is that one a replacement?
I want to throw in the towel.
I've posted to you before and you say that my posts help. But it seems you are retaining the information for about 2 days and then going back to square one.
It's frustrating for me to see you make zero movement forward. You say "I try to GAL and focus on me BUT WHAT ABOUT HIM/WHY IS HE DOING THIS/WHEN WILL HE COME BACK????? HIM HIM HIM HIM...
If you want to throw in the towel after a few months b/c you are "tired of trying", so be it. But don't pretend you've been DBing, even for that short time.
If you want to throw in the towel b/c you realize he's an alcoholic and you don't want THAT in your life, so be it. THAT I would understand a lot more than the small amount of time you've put in here, relatively.
See, again, my signature line.
However mine only applies so much since I didn't have the terrible realization that my h had a disease he's unlikely to solve, as you do...
The pattern your h is in now,
is one in which he seems to feel LESS like hiding and fooling everyone by being a "great dad and H"
AND
MORE like he just wants to get drunk. Sorry Life.
"How long is long?"
Normally, MY personal timeline is a year of good solid effort. Then it requires an honest assessment about any results.
The distinction in your situation is your h is an alcoholic & you claim not to have known this.
So some of what you are attached to isn't even real. He is not the man you believed him to be.
As I've asked you before on other threads,
what is it you are losing?
Let's do an exercise.
Imagine your h had crashed his car and died.
Fast forward to whenever it is that you would be more or less, over the grief.
What would your life look like then? I mean, at some point you would heal, correct? OR
Would you curl up into the fetal position and surrender to eternal sadness?
Would you emotionally abandon your kids?
The answer to all those questions, I hope, is No.
So then, what's really bothering you is that he's with someone else. That means your ego took a hammer blow.
I get it. That hurts. But at least see that it's a wall of ego,
and NOT true loss that you are smashing into.
Once you face that, you can do some cognitive work to talk yourself into realizing why THIS part, isn't about you.
Once you realize this part is about HIS DRINKING,
you'll feel a bit less frazzled.
After all, OW drinks w/him and you don't...gee that sure does sound like true love to me!
FYI, my FIL is a highly functioning alcoholic w/some money and good looks. He married wife#3 b/c she drank too...that lasted 2 years.
See, He had lost his first 2 wives due to his drinking and behavior while drunk,
(which also influenced his behavior even while sober).
When it came right down to it, at that time in his life, he chose to drink over working on the 2nd marriage (& the woman he really loved).
He lost wife#3 (no loss in my eyes but that's just me) to divorce.
He got really lonely after awhile (had a brief recon with #3, but finally it ended for good...)
He hit bottom over a 2 year period, and then finally began to look for a woman to date. Miraculously, he met a healthy, wealthy woman (so she didn't "need" him for money) who had boundaries.
She was a widow who had a long term healthy marriage before her h's death. She didn't have weird baggage or a drinking problem.
She had normal healthy boundaries and expectations. She was strong and loving. Think "iron fist in a velvet glove"....FIL was crazy about her. He was motivated!!
Today, My fil is the best man HE can be now. He still drinks and I wish he didn't. But in truth, he drinks a whole lot less.
He's the happiest and most loving he's ever been. He's 75...they've been married now for 15 years and
so it took HIM
60 years to learn how to love someone without needing to control them.
Take what you will from this.
But know that in your sitch, what you are feeling is mostly
rejection from a man whose primary motivation now is drinking, and hiding from shame.
That's what alcoholism is and does. I grew up with it, and it sukkks.
I wish you'd focus on the life you are creating, your children, and NOT on
what his drunken wacky thinking means.
Your h sounds like a raging alcoholic who is shacking up with another drunk. And you are obsessing about what it all means. THAT IS WHAT IT MEANS...
he's an alcoholic who chooses to drink with another drunk, OVER
coming home to a rejected angry wife and sad kids who are disappointed in him.
Don't ask the kids not to feel what they feel.
Deal with the reality that it's HIS problem, not theirs to ignore or "cope with"...that type of behavior is what screws up kids.
It's like telling the kids to "Pay no attention to daddy stumbling b/c the most important thing kids, is that he's HERE and is NOT what you are seeing.... look the other way and deny what is happening..."
That's crazy making, it's not right. It's unfair to them. But it's typical of co-dependent enablers...
There are wives who like that their h's are drunks b/c all the problems in the family are HIS. The wife is "right". The wife may also feel "he won't leave ME b/c of what I put up with"
...but they do leave...and when the wife gets honest with herself,
sometimes she realizes he's done her a favor.
The focus you need is on creating your new, healthy life. You can pray and hope
he gets help b/c he's the father of your children. However...
Since he's NOT presently interested in a recon w/ you
and he's NOT presently interested in much of a R with the kids
you are wasting your energy and time trying to figure out
why this is happening, why he's a drunk, when is too long and blah blah blah all about HIM...that misplaced focus is on you, it's your responsibility for how you handle this.
Take care of your kids and GAL...it all gets easier once you do that.
Stop resisting this advice please. We're telling you how we think you can get happier.
Do you want to be happier? Seriously...do you?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
focus LESS on the MLC dimension and more on the others....
the diagnosis of MLC in your situation isn't very helpful, imo.
It misplaces your focus. Besides, what you are really asking is when he'll come back.
None of us can tell you IF OR when...
sorry
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks 25. Spot on. FWIW- I have been re-reading the old posts from you on my thread over and over.
It has been a hard week. SOme I think is that I have been told over and over that I can't feel this. The anger the bitterness. That is hard. I have to get it out. Like I am not to be hurt. Maybe I really haven't been told this I don't know but feel it coming from others. Like I have to be strong for every one. Extended family even-co dependency in its glory I guess.
You are right. He has been hiding behind the good H and F for a long time. That is a tough one to swallow. For the kids too. I have encouraged them to just feel their feelings. Not be ashamed of them. I have told them its normal.
Yes, OW drinks with him. No, I am sure its not true love. But, I am looking for reassurance I guess. Maybe I am being childish in that regard that I need you all to remind me she is meaningless. But, funny he isn't happy there either. What cognitive things are you referring to? No, I did not know he was an alcoholic. He has hidden and lied so well. I knew he "social drank" but NOthing like what was going on. He could be home for a weekend and not drink but then go on (what I have now figured out)a binge but cover it with working late. I would be in bed when he got home.
I think some of my anger and resenment is looking back now that can connect everything with the drinking- walking on egg shells, mood swings, etc is that We-the kids and I - did put up with that or live with that. Not always the easiest. But, then HE leaves US!?!!! Really? That seems a little backwards.
I truly am GAL the best I can. Yes I need to focus on the kids.
Yes, I want my kids and I all to be happier. I am scared. THere I said it.
And, yes, I want you to tell me when he will come back. But, I know no one can. Just being honest. I know my hope cannot be in him. My hope is in God. Just need to get it from my head to my heart.
Thanks. I DO appreciate the feedback. I should start journaling. That way everyone doesn't need to hear my repition.
there's a big fat difference. He may be doing you a favor, frankly.
I think you know that where the head goes, the heart will, eventually, follow.
The cognitive work you have to do is work on the ego. It means "mental" basically so your cognitive work is your mental reasoning
and since I believe that where the head goes, etc
that means you do have to do some good thinking. Some objective reality based thinking.
Not fear based and not ego driven...
I DO understand the irony of HIM leaving YOU...I get it. Believe me, I do.
In time you'll see that it's not as ironic as you think but b/c you saw him differently, you didn't realize this is actually predictable
given the deteriorating nature of his disease.
Keep posting and re-reading things that are helping you.
It does sink in eventually.
Keep going and keep telling yourself what IS and IS NOT about you and
you'll get there...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you again for the the great reply. I do appreiate it.
So you are saying given his drinking and the downward spiral he was on this should have been somewhat predictable. If I had known to what extent he was drinking. Just so I understand.
this addiction thing is foreign to me. Maybe I should be on a difft. forum?
Yes, we are all feeling rejected. Even the little kids. It is so hard. The oldest feels everything has been a lie. That he is not the F he thought him to be. When will he get over or come to grips with the shame? His kids need to see him. Even if just for an afternoon.
Starting day 6 of NC. No one has heard a word from H.
I don't see any reason to move to a different forum unless you want to.
All our MLCer's are addicted to one thing or another or several things. Whether it an op, drugs, alcohol, porn, etc., the advice is the same.
This is about us and our journey. We didn't break our S, and we can't fix them. They have to sort it out for themselves. We can, however, fix ourselves.
It's all about choices and the paths we choose to walk.
If you'd like to stay and keep posting, we can offer support to each other while walking those paths.
Possibly because my life has been swarming with addicted personalities, I spot it so easily...
I find it hard to believe that the idea of addiction is foreign to you. At least not entirely foreign.
Staying here is up to you, but Seeking is right, the work, the answers, are basically the same.
Originally Posted By: lifejustgothard2
So you are saying given his drinking and the downward spiral he was on this should have been somewhat predictable. If I had known to what extent he was drinking. Just so I understand.
Definately with a pattern of continued and progressive drinking, a downward spiral should have been predictable and pretty easy to spot. Even if you weren't aware of the extent of the drinking.
When my MIL started again, I was not aware that she was drinking all of the liquor in my liquor cabinet (she is a beer drinker), until after she moved out...
However I was very aware by her behavior, her hiding in her room, her mood swings, etc...that she was drinking MORE than she had been...
Originally Posted By: Life
When will he get over or come to grips with the shame? His kids need to see him. Even if just for an afternoon.
No one can answer this.
It is something that he has to want...
And I believe you are projecting your feelings onto him right now.
I don't know that there is shame, or at least that sort of rational thought, with an alcoholic.
If there were, I don't think my Step-Grandfather would have drunk himself into his grave. I don't believe my father and his wife would still be drinking everynight like they do. I don't believe that my step-father would have turned down being put on the recipient list for a liver transplant that he so desperately needs because "I do not want to stop drinking so give someone who can use it a healthy liver."
They don't really seem to have shame to me, however, I was ashamed of them for a very long time.
I was embarrassed by their behavior. I wouldn't bring people around or I would warn them ahead of time and apologize profusly afterward.
Now, I handle them differently. When they drink, I remove myself from the situation. When they are invited to functions, I tell them, if you can't NOT drink for a few hours, don't come. They know my boundaries and that I will enforce them. I no longer apologize for their behavior. I also no longer accept it into my life. I still love them though.
You can continue to live in the victim role with this, refusing to work on healing yourself and becoming stronger, not accepting that this is HIS problem and you will continue to feel as you do and you will do more damage to your children than what is being done already.
Or...
You can choose to accept that this is HIS path to walk...
And you can begin to walk your own path...
Accept that you MUST be the strong one, for you and your children, that you are the one who is going to show them how to heal from this and that you are there for them even if he is not...
Your H is NOT going to swoop in and make things all better right now...
He isn't even capable of it...
Alanon is a great and wonderful support group for wives and children of people with drinking problems...
There are chapters in almost every community...you should look into it...
The unknown is scary, but once you take the first step toward your healing, each one gets easier and easier...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
In regards to the addicition what is foreign to me -or hard to understand-is that someone would be willing to give up everything to be able to drink. I have been reading more on alcoholism. I did not grow up with anyone who ever even drank. I don't believe I turned a blind eye to it or H. I confronted him in the past. Of course he got mad. FInally, months before he moved out I put up the boundary that coming home drunk or not coming home at all is unacceptable. Kids were at the point they were asking -"did dad come home last night"
I said no more. He left and hasn't come back.
I am trying and working toward becoming the strong one.
It is just a lot to come to grips with in just a matter of months. My H isn't who I thought he was Niether is my M or the kids F. And he is with OW.
He has done a 180. Now I am coming to terms with it.
I have attended Al Anon and may continue.
I do like this forum. I believe a lot applies to my sitch and the advice is priceless. Thank you!
my father would wake up on Sunday morning and realize the black eye my older brother (s) had were from him
he did not quit drinking
He'd learn I had run away again b/c he hit me
he did not stop drinking
he hit my mother
he did not quit drinking
he got diabetes and was told by his doctor "if you keep drinking you will die within 2 years"
he did not quit drinking
he got sick and found out he had liver cancer (which was related to alcohol) and was told he would not benefit from chemo b/c the non cancerous part of his liver had scarring (cirrhosis)
and he was not a candidate for a transplant with his other problems including diabetes which was aggravated by his drinking, for years...
The doctor told him
if you drink at all, you will die within 24-36 hours
so he quit drinking, and
He died 56 days later.
My father had several college degrees including a law degree, a Master's in Theology, and PhD.
He was not a wino in the gutter.
He was a lawyer & held a high position in the day.
He taught Sunday theology classes to adults...
Among other things, I believe he drank to self medicate for depression.
But the reality is, for whatever reason,
He was an alcoholic and his drinking killed him.
I later learned that my grandfather, a federal judge, was an alcoholic who drank at night too. His first wife had died in childbirth and that saddened him...
So, is there a genetic factor for alcohol (or depression? Does it matter?)
MY fil is a retired Marine Corp officer with some serious medals for valor & some serious intelligence
He's on his 4th wife b/c he drank the others away.
He missed a promotion at in the Marine Corp b/c he drank too much
My mil was an alcoholic who held two jobs for over 25 years.
she babysat our infant son once. When we went to get him we had to break the door down b/c she had passed out, smoking, near him. We removed him from her living room and she never woke up and did not call the next day to inquire or apologize.
My h was mortified. I somehow remained calm b/c I had grown up with the same insanity and said "can we agree she'll never babysit him again?" and he did. As far as I know, she never asked to...
Once she had some sort of break down, precipitated by trying to kill my h who was 19 at the time. She said "Satan was controlling him".
She only slowed her drinking b/c the medication she got for her mental condition was NOT to be mixed with alcohol, at all. She still drank of course, but less so. I think it made her feel sick.
A year or so later she got lung cancer
but the malnoursishment from her drinking,
made her die even faster than usual. NONE of these ^^^ people were able to maintain healthy marriages, b/c of their drinking.
None of these people quit drinking (except my dad at the very end)
My father said once, "I don't drink to feel good, although that's how it began.
I drink so I won't feel sick".
They eventually "have to" drink
b/c they simply don't want the withdrawal
and don't minimize the severity of that withdrawal. IT's a bitch.
I know, I saw.
My dad did quit drinking for 7 months once (with medical supervision) and I recall two things. He attended AA and got so sad when he realized the extent of the damage he had caused.
But the other thing was he was so much calmer than before. And interested in what we were doing in our lives. God, how I wish he'd stayed sober...
He relapsed at my sister's wedding and it was not until his terminal illness that he was sober at length, again.
I loved my dad. I admired and miss his brilliance and articulation. But he was an alcoholic.
How to reconcile the admirable things with the terrible things?
I refuse to let his disease define all of him. It's one important piece, but there was far more to my father than his drinking. He had great strengths and great weaknesses. He was a complicated man.
Your kids don't have to define their father by his drinking
but they have to face it for what it is.
I DO think it's a disease but there's more to it than that.
It's not something that "happened" to him, like other diseases.
But by calling it a disease, the alcoholic is more likely to accept that they have no choice but not to drink
so they get that they really are "powerless over alcohol"
and the only choice they have is to choose NOT to drink
If you say "not a disease. Just control it. Hey it's all up to them"
the danger is they'll think a few months of sobriety proves they can handle it, and they'll drink again.
I've had this discussion >100 times.
My mother wanted it to be solely a character flaw.
So theres a balance to the approach. Free will and choice are part of it, but so is the disease aspect. You can't say "just stop" and expect that to work. I wish.
I hope I'm being clear enough.
Anyhow
what Cat said is so spot on. Read her posts again.
Your kids can and will heal from this, although they may never be the same.
But I survived, as did all my 8 siblings.
We all put ourselves through college and more,
we all have great senses of humor and many of us perform comedy as avocations. I use a lot of my childhood in my comedy.
My h became an MD and his brother is an engineer (who isn't an alcoholic, yet)
I tell my kids they have the genes for alcholism and there's a lot of research that backs me up on this... But don't buy into your h "ruining the FAMILY..."
He was ruining the times together while IN the family...
now, the drinking and insanity is out of the house. There's an upside to this when you push your ego aside...
Not easy I know. We all have egos but like I said, be open to the upside.
It would have been so great if my dad had left us for those last 5 years of my home life. So much violent drama and yelling would have allowed us to enjoy home a lot more
...might have had parties at our house even...or sleepovers...
you are still a family with a sober mother. That makes your kids luckier than many.
Model for them what they need to see and hear. Be there for them. I am sure your h will come around for some visits but
he may not be sober.
As my c once said, "that's sad, but that... is that"...
he meant for me to figure out that all I had was now
and to start
living without the idea I could fix the past OR another person
but that I could and should
Live my life as well as I can. Period.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Cat04- what feelings am I projecting onto him? THe shame? If so, how am I doing this?
25-Wow. Those are the stories that make me realize what a hold addiction has on a person. Very sad. And, I am happy we are no longer involved in that chaos.
