Okay, big issue tonight..... My two oldest kids are back home from out of town. My youngest son went with H and oldest son to a practice and girls went with me to dinner. We got home, met back up with the boys, had some fun. As I walked H out to his car, we got into a conversation about therapists. I told him that in my opinion, we can spend all the money, time, emotions, etc on a counselor, but until he learns to forgive me, the marriage can't be saved. H got very defensive, saying things like, wow....guess this is all on me (uh, yeah?!?...no, I didn't say this but wanted to). I told him that I've forgiven him for so many, many things (and he knows...I've forgiven him for 10x more things than he needs to forgive me of)...and yes, I understand that changes do need to be made in our marriage on both our parts for it to THRIVE, but in order to basically SURVIVE, there must be forgiveness. It is first and foremost. Without it, there's no sense in even trying. Well, he was p!ssed and left p!ssed. Which was FINE, because I was beyond DONE with the conversation at that point. Dang...he makes me SO MAD!!!!
lc4 - I'm sorry it was a rough evening. I'm glad you weren't packing heat at the time or at least you didn't use it.
Do you think this got you closer to your goal or further away?
I agree with you that to move forward your H does need to forgive you. However, this is for him. As long as he harbors those hurts against you, he will be a miserable person. It will eat him up in side. It a gift he has to give himself. He can't be pressured or coerced in forgiving you. He may never be able to forgive you - that'll be his pain he has to live with.
If he's willing to go to a counselor, I say let the counselor earn their money and walk him through this process. That'll take the pressure off you, too.
Thanks, JB...you are always such a gentleman with your very gentle 2x4s. Listen, I'm WAY beyond trying to coerce, pressure or anything else to get him to forgive me. I was just calling a spade a spade. I'm happy to go with him to counseling, but it is what it is. There will be no moving forward until he learns to forgive. I don't think tonight got us any closer to or farther from my ultimate goal. It was just a simple statement of the truth. He can take it for what it's worth. But it's something he needs to realize, because until he does we are STUCK.
You're absolutely correct. You will be stuck until he learns to forgive. It sounds like he is what Telemark defines as an "Injustice Collector".
My W is very similar. Back in April, we had a conversation where she brought up 3 things that hurt her deeply. She didn't even want to bring them. It was at the suggestion of my DB coach to find out some things I could've done differently. I was just looking for some small things, but she brought out the elephant parade. These were things that happened in a time range from 9 years ago to roughly 3-4 years ago. She's still hanging on to these.
I think all we can do is apologize sincerely once and move on. It's up to them to forgive us.
Did the spade need to be called a spade? I dunno. Does he already know this? Was it done to vent some frustration?
lc4, I certainly understand why you said what you said to your H, but as they like to say here in DBland:
"You can be right, or you can be happy."
IMHO - the WAS is hyper-sensitive to anything we say that could come across as a criticism or even a simple statement of fact, and regardless of how that message is delivered, they take it as a personal attack.
It is very unfair that we (LBS's) have to temper our words and comments so we don't offend or hurt or drive away our spouses, while they seem to have free rein to toss anything hurtful our way.
We can't win.
Again, I realize you've been in your situation longer than a lot of us, and I suspect your patience is very thin by now. But I think if you still want to save or reinvent your marriage, you will have to tread lightly with your H while he figures out his own issues.
Big Yankee hug to you to start your day (that's Yankee as in north of the Mason-Dixon Line, not the nasty baseball team...).
H 56 W 48 D27,S21 SS25 SS22 Severely autistic M(#2 for both) 9 1/2 yrs. "I've never loved you" 3/7/2011 Separated 8/7/2011 BITS
Okay, gentlemen...excellent points. I just get so fed up at times that the kids and I has to pay the price for his stubbornness. JB, it is true...the spade doesn't necessarily need to be called a spade (I think he needs a little gentle hit over the head with a spade to knock some sense into him, but that would be inappropriate).
No contact since last night when we both stormed off in different directions. We will see each other again tonight for a school event, and the kids will spend the night with him. Plus, we are going to be be together Thursday night (another school event) and ALL weekend (in the same hotel room) for one of the kid's tournaments out of town.
So, should I contact him and apologize (those words taste blech coming out of my mouth), or should I just let it blow over and see how tonight goes?
Thanks for keeping me in line best ya'll can. I can be a couple of handfuls. And thanks for that hug, Telemark!
Well, he texted this morning asking about tonight's event, and after answering his question, I apologized for getting sideways with him last night and asked for his forgiveness. He replied, "Already did." Now, I had to double check with him that meant what I thought it might, because he is the king of holding things over my head. So, I replied, "???Already did what?". And he said, "Forgave you. I'm sorry too." WOWEE...talk about a huge 180 on his part! I'm wondering if someone must have stolen his phone! I replied, "Thanks. Forgiven. Clean Slate."
I do think some of the things I finally had the nerve to tell him made him think last night. So maybe it wasn't all bad. BUT...I do need to have a personal goal of keeping my frustration in check and my mouth shut when I need to. So, I'll put on my best lc4 smile tonight, have good hair and get back to DB'ing.
Thanks again, JB and Telemark. You guys are good stuff.
or at least you didn't use it.
