Well my W and I just had a long talk about our relationship and her affair.
I was able to get some answers from her to questions that have been on my mind for some time.
She admitted the painter got her the job at a painting company he does subcontracting for. She claims they are just friends and that they talk about stuff and that's it. I was able to get her to admit that, that is an EA even though she denies having feelings for him. Until today, she didn't think she had done anything wrong. I asked her why if they were just friends did she admit to having an affair? She said I didn't, but I was able to refute what she said and that i had used the word very clearly on that day multiple times and in fact called her an adulterer. So it's clear to me she knew . I asked her why if she hadn't had an affair, had she watched while I had gone through hell for the last 2 months... She had no answer. So, it's clear to me she is lying, she knew it was an affair all along.
I was also able to get her to commit to agreeing to talk face to face instead of by email. In the future, if she tries to communicate by email I will just 1 word answers. She admitted that it was easier for her to communicate by email because in her words, "it's impersonal."
She said she would never get married again because of her commitment issue.
She also told me that it was ok if I sat closer to her when I asked if it was ok, I told her I didn't want her to feel frightened, and she said that she wasn't because she liked it that I didn't yell or get angry now. She said that she needed to see more time to believe in the changes.
We talked about her plans for living arrangements and she said that she had to save first and last months rent, I cautioned her that she could expect to see a big portion in taxes and deductions come off her paycheck, probably close to 35%, she seemed shocked but that to be expected because I have paid all her income taxes for the last 6 years. So it looks like we still have more than a few months living together for her to notice the consistency of my changes.
I was also able to let her know that I have confidence in her and I knew that she would be great at whatever job she put her effort to.
I made it very clear to her that separation and divorce were not what I wanted. She made it very clear to me that she does want separation and divorce.
She admitted that she has been feeling trapped and very unhappy for at least the last 2 years. And seeing problems since the birth of our youngest. I echoed her observation by saying that I had the same feeling and that I had always felt that it was due to the stress of parenting and home daycare, she nodded her head.
I told her that in my opinion, communication and lack of quality time together were two of the biggest contributors to our marriage breakdown. In the end, we were able to talk openly and agreed to make time to spend together, like going for a walk, but no dinner at a restaurant, in her words that would be taking a step back and she didn't want to give false hope. I asked false hope for you, or for me. I asked her if that was a step back really... She didn't answer that, but said how many times do I have to say the same thing... (I'm done).
While I would have loved to hear her say that she was ready to work on our R, that did not happen. She told me that she knew that, that's what I wanted to hear her say, but that she wasn't going to say it. I told her that I felt much better after having talked to her, and I asked her if she felt better, she nodded... I thanked her for talking with me, and she went to bed.
It is clear to me that she is nowhere near ready to talk reconciliation, and that we are closer to divorce than ever before, but with time, and effort working on communication and quality time, things could look different. Now I need help to make DBing really work. I did'nt do a good job the first time, so now, I will be the master DBer. We are going to have a role reversal very shortly, soon I will be the housewife, and she will be out all day working... That's a huge 180 for both of us...
At least now I know that my changes are noticed and appreciated by her... Even though they were for me.
I like me, I'm proud of me...
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W. 3K. D11 S9 D6 M 12 y T 13 y Bomb drop 02/22/2011 2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011 Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011
You guilt her. Try to hold her home financially. Try to pressure time together. TIME SHE DOES NOT WANT.
You ask her to confirm the A when you already know.
All of this....
No more.
Detach. GAL. Let her go.
JMVHO. This still sounds like a full blown EA. Not "just" an EA have you. This. I believe for a women is just as powerful as a PA. She has given herself to someone else.
Now. You holding on while she has these feelings for someone else. For her? WEAKNESS. Pressure. Uncomfortable. Wants to run. Escape this situation.
Did anything come up as far as her R with OM while she still lives there?
I was in this same situation for a while. I blew it. You can do better.
F the walks together. F the dinners. F her for right now. You know this means not in any mean way. Not bitter. Not vindictive. Not angry. Just let her be.
Get control of yourself. Regardless of the hope you hold onto. Prepare for life without her. Not because it will be. Because it is. And it is your best chance to change what is to what will be.
Show her the new you without the new you in her life. THIS is what could change her mind.
Peace.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
I needed question answered. I am much clearer headed now. I think after our discussion that we both need a trial sep. I am thinking about this right now and would like feedback. For her, time for her, she came out and said flat out thats what she needed. For me, I need the time apart to heal the wound and make my own life. It's impossible for either one of us, especially me to move forward with the constant proximity. Over the next few months we will be making the house ready for sale, and I will be focussing on job hunt. She will be focussed on learning her new job, and putting money away for first and last months rent.
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W. 3K. D11 S9 D6 M 12 y T 13 y Bomb drop 02/22/2011 2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011 Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011
Read what country has said, absorb it, then read it again, and again for the next few days.
Give her what she craves, GAL more than ever, no more r talks, if she bring r up just say you are thinking things through.
Strong, confident new you
Have the confidence that you can make it on your own and create a satisfying life, even if your spouse walks away from the marriage. This confidence and showing of respect for yourself will communicate to your wife that she needs to look closely at what she’s giving up and be very sure this is what she wants
Me - 37 W - 38 D - 14 S - 12 Together - 16 Married - 12 Bomb - April 13, 2011 W moved out - May 13, 2011
The man I became is changing back to the man I was........... and more
"I was able to get her to admit that, that is an EA even though she denies having feelings for him." "She said I didn't, but I was able to refute what she said and that i had used the word very clearly on that day multiple times and in fact called her an adulterer." "So, it's clear to me she is lying, she knew it was an affair all along."
"I was also able to get her to commit to agreeing to talk face to face instead of by email. In the future, if she tries to communicate by email I will just 1 word answers."
"She also told me that it was ok if I sat closer to her when I asked if it was ok,"
I agree with the others that your conversation was full of control issues. You kept pressing her for your concerns. Which is understandable, however, right now she's not thinking about you. Just her. You have to be able to put yourself into her shoes and be more sympathetic if you want her back.
You do guilt her also. Those aren't characteristics of a relationship someone wants to go back to.
After you "got" her to agree to those things, why would you push for a separation now? Once you're separated, she's not going to see any changes of yours.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Admittedly, my emotion can take hold of me. I don't feel like my AD meds are doing much anymore. The dr gave me a mild dosage. I may need to bump it up.. I don't like being on them, but until things are resolved, they are necessary to keep me functioning and productive.
Mr Bond. This is now the question I want to ask everyone's advice. Since some of my 180s, like open communication, and more quality time, are contradictory to letting go of the rope, but are necessary to show my changes, how should I handle that?
Also to address the control issues, my boss pointed out to me today that my current job (which is over in 3 days) required me to take control of situations and move customers concerns rapidly to solutions. I know that as hard as I have tried not to demonstrate these skills at home, the do permeate my interactions with my wife. My boss pointed out that my strong control skills will deminish as this job fades into my history. Also the incredible stress of being front line high pressure customer.sales driven has impacted my home life too... So, in a way the job closure in not a bad thing for me really, but more of a blessing in disguise.
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W. 3K. D11 S9 D6 M 12 y T 13 y Bomb drop 02/22/2011 2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011 Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011
So, when my wife brings up separation and divorce plans, I should tell her that I need time to think on it and come here for support, also I have made my feelings known to her and I don't need to keep reinforcing them with her. Right now, I should simply let her talk and respond to her statements with questions like"who, what, where, when, why and how". Most importantly I should be doing 80 % of the listening instead od 80% of the talking.
How then should I encourage conversations?
My W prefers to text instead of talk. I would rather talk face to face to have that human interaction, and connection. Its ironic really, it occurred to me yesterday (and I mentioned it to my W) that when we were first married she never stopped talking and asking question. (I always told her that she should be a police interrogator, because she could crack the most hardened of criminals)... Now, I wish she would have talked to me more in the past years so that we would be in a different place. Sometimes what you wish for is not what you really want...
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W. 3K. D11 S9 D6 M 12 y T 13 y Bomb drop 02/22/2011 2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011 Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011
Since some of my 180s, like open communication, and more quality time, are contradictory to letting go of the rope, but are necessary to show my changes, how should I handle that?
These are great things when you have TWO people working on a R.
Right now Johnnie, it's just you.
Right now, work on 180's that you are 100% in control of. The things above require your W to participate as well. And right now, she has made if very clear this is not what she wants.
A note on the communication side. 50% is listening. So even if you say all the right things but do not listen. You still get an F...
You need to hear what your W is telling you right now.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
Update... I have been doing my best to stick to sandis list of dos and donts. No R talk at all since Tuesday night. Just making sure to be consistent in my 180s. I went out Friday night with work friends to celebrate our last day of work. I got home late, well actually about 12:30 but slept on the porch swing for a bit and went in the house at 3 am. The next morning at 6am I got up to get a drink, and my W was leaving for work. She remarked "you must be tired you didn't get much sleep". I said, "I'm fine" (hungover really). This was different behavior for her as she would make a point on not saying anything that would show any observation of my whereabouts.
I had a great night with my collegues and have had many happy pictures tagged of me having a good time in FB. I really enjoyed myself and am getting comfortable with GAL. I am starting to realize that my happiness really does come from within. I have hinged so much of my married life's happiness on my W.
I am spending more time with the kids now as my W has been taking more weekend and evening painting jobs to supplement her loss in wages while the daycare winds down (this upcoming week is the last week). For me, I will be home alot more now that I am unemployed. This will allow me to be here for the kids and get some needed chores done around the house. It will also force me to get out of the house so that I don't get "cabin fever". My service club commitments will be restarting again this week, so more GAL.
The next 2 weeks will bring a true role reversal, as I become the housewife, and my W goes off to work outside the house. It will bring a appreciation for what we have taken for granted in each other over the last 7 years.
I am waiting to hear on 2 jobs I have interviewed for last week. I am optimistic, and felt that both interviews went very well... But you never know until you get feedback one way or another. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they pan out. It would be nice to have that small stress off my sholders. That would leave just the huge stress of my marital sitch to deal with... I say it like this: "my job stress is a drop, my marriage stress is the whole lake". That puts it into perspective.
Overall now I am just focussed on being the best Johnnie I can be without being phony, or not true to myself. The ending of my current job will help me to be more of the man she fell in love with... I have said before that my old job required me to be in very tight control of situations and conversations, i can see where my W complaints about me being controlling have stemmed from that.
I am confident that with everyday that passes, I am stronger, and it is becoming clearer to me that my wife's unhappiness is due to her own issues. I have fixed me, to the point that I am happy with me. Now the rest is up to her. I have decided that when my W is in a bad.mood, it will not hook me, I concider it an opportunity to show patience and understanding for her, and I recognize that things may not be going so well with her EA, or that she may be having doubts about her master escape plan. Whatever it is, if things don't work out for us, I know I deserve better. I will not let this define me, I have learned a very painful lesson about what to do, and what not to do in this or future relationships...
I'm growing, and I can see that.
Divorce Busting full steam ahead...
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W. 3K. D11 S9 D6 M 12 y T 13 y Bomb drop 02/22/2011 2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011 Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011
