Too Tired To Fight

[25yearsmlc]

I too, shall "GAL the [censored] out of this weekend!".

Val, we are in So Cal so yes we can go OUT and play...(hurricane, schmurricane).

@ TM - Thanks I will move forward and it will hurt. But in the last 5 months, I know that I NEVER want to go back to that relationship. ---

@ JS. You know me so well. As Denver put it, I'm a hamster on a wheel. Only I can control my emotions and actions. Still working on that. But I will try my best to keep my emotions out of it. I think looking at it as a business dissolution is a good way to put it.

Yep^^^^

To me 95% of it is just stuff. I don't really want anything except what's in my house currently, our wedding photos, and camping gear.

Be prepared for her to want some of the wedding pics too, which might irk you since she's ending the m. But her Not wanting any will hurt more so be ready for either...


I just want 50% of it's worth. Not because I want to hold onto the past with "stuff" but because my car is older and I would like to eventually move into a bigger place. I would like to take my hard earned "past" and use it towards my hard earned "future". If that makes sense.

@25. I could go on forever about the stuff you ask. But you ask questions that make me think and push me forward. I enjoy the challenge to dig deep in myself for the answers.

Oh goodie^^^

Do I see myself as equal to her now? For the most part however when I'm around her and she starts her manipulation, I lose that feeling very quickly. So actually no.. but I'm learning!

it's Progress...& it's way better than nothing.

You focus on your flaws over hers? ---Absolutely I do. Honestly I think anyone who has been abused thinks it's their fault, if they could only do better, the person would change.

Trust me I see it. Was shooting therapy videos on set and actually lost my sh!t (crying) because some one was begging to get her abusive husband back. It was a total "OMG that's me moment).[/color]

^^^^how telling and how weird and how...in the long run...helpful. May I ask what you mean by abuse? I'm a L who used to do criminal defense work, so my mind goes to the darkest of places when I hear that word. Not minimizing the "emotional" stuff, but want to know what we are dealing with. (You know how nutty YOU were for putting up with it?? )

How do I assess it vs what I want her to be? ---This board. My sister who has been through abusive relationships. My wonderful friends. They all keep me in check with what I perceive my w to be vs. who she is being. [/color]

As for the move to LA. Yes it was my decision. I had been unhappy at my corporate video job for awhile and wanted to see what the LA film business was like. She loved her job in Chicago and her friends. We were about to buy a place and start a family. I asked to put that all on hold so I could try my dream. She said yes. She supported me the best she could but we did struggle with it for the first 4 months when we moved here.

Well I can see why she'd feel more "entitled", notwithstanding the law here. Not to rain on the parade but, She has a point. You brought her out here, for your dream, then your pay went down...SO she bore the brunt of the bills here AND gave up a job she loved and being near her friends & family...ouch...She also delayed having a child. (Is that also seen as a loss to her?)

All the stuff we bought together before the move except for the car and a few small items... so I'm not sure where the entitlement comes from other than from what I stated above.

that's ^^ probably it. How are both of your incomes now, and is there still a disparity between them?

I guess in MY MIND, that's what I have to believe otherwise.. my w is just a d-bag who is very selfish and doesn't care about my feelings.

Nope. She's not evil incarnate. She just sees the facts you mentioned above AND thru her camera lens, and score card, she's behind you in winning and ahead in being a victim. I believe she feels abused by you, financially and geographically, if you KWIM

That may also be true, but it's something I'm not ready to grasp yet completely. It's easier for me to say I spent 8 yrs loving a "sick" woman or a loving "a woman who thinks she is worthless".

Help me to understand what you mean by this^^^. She wanted out of the m. Okay. That in itself isn't "sick" necessarily, nor does it mandate she thinks she is worthless. What am i missing here?

It allows me to have compassion and forgiveness. If I'm honest it also stops me from looking like an idiot for putting up with it.

Love this wording. I defended h at the height of his weirdness and once told my then 16 y/o d that he was "really confused" (which I'm sure was also true). To which D16 retorted, "I just think he's really selfish"....

For me, looking like a doormat was scarier than divorce. it was such a fine line to walk between too much pride/ego, and not enough self respect, and it's an ever shifting, blurry line...



Thank you all for helping me through a hard day. I sent the letter and feel like I got some of my emotional courage back.

Much appreciated (( ))

right back atcha'

[Valeska19]

So the emotional abuse. It started from the very beginning. I was from PA, her from NJ. The first thing that she noticed.. I talked funny. She thought it was best for her to "correct my english".

Then my w was overweight up until joining OA a year ago. I have always been skinny. She would tell me I was too skinny. Then when I gained 35 lbs from quitting smoking, she told me that she liked me skinnier. Since the s, I'm back to being skinny. Never tells me I look nice. Just that I'm too skinny.

I am a big fan of eating breakfast for dinner.. especially cereal. I was made to feel guilty. That's not what adults eat. If I wasn't hungry when she was, man was I in trouble. If I wanted something small for dinner "that wasn't a real meal". If she didn't eat, she got super grumpy.

I couldn't wear flannel. It made me look to butch.
I had to grow my hair out for the wedding. She'd didn't want me to look like a guy in our wedding photos.

If we went out and something happened that upset me. For example, a bird had pooped on my new fedora and a woman was hogging the sink the bathroom. I was very upset as I had crap everywhere on me. My w told me not to embarrass her.

I wouldn't say I'm a knockout, but when I dress girly.. alot of guys hit on me. She thought everyone had a crush on me. She actually told me she liked me better with no make-up. I don't remember when I stopped dressing feminine. I started again. Her comment "I bet your mom is happy you are dressing girly again. My mom never cared how I dressed. She just wishes I was straight.

I couldn't go out or have friends without feeling fear. I remember I would tell her about advice I would get from friends and she would say "I'm telling you the same thing, but you only listen to x". I started swing with my guy best friend recently. Her comment "you better be careful. You are probably stopping x from getting a girlfriend cause you are always dancing with him". That was after she called him my b/f because I had on make-up and called us "domestic" because he was cooking dinner for us.

Certain clothes I wore looked dumb, but when I dressed sexy, she never said anything.

I took jobs but she hated when I was on one.

Biggest thing was when I had feelings. Feelings about wanting to address our big issues. She would get very cold with me.. as if my feelings didn't matter. (Very much what she does now). I remember crying out, and getting nothing. I tried expressing my fears and wants so much that when she didn't listen we would eventually have a big fight every couple of months. When we did, she wouldn't talk to me. Nothing I could say or do could break down the wall.

I'm just scared of her. I felt like I was always on eggshells. I felt ugly and worthless. I felt like I wasn't good enough for her. It was horrible. What's even worse. I still struggle with all of that even now.

There were moments right before our separation that she would tell me. "It's sad really, I never gave you enough credit". While we were separating she said "I'm scared that I will make a mistake, and that it will be you that will thrive from this separation. That you will realize that I have held you back. I realize that you encourage me to try new things and do things together, I just never did".

And the thing is 25, she's right. I am thriving from this separation. The amount of work has gone up. I have stronger connection with friends, I am more positive and more loving.. and this pisses her off. She was like "Now you are getting work, having friends, going to church". She has openly admitted to being jealous and angry about that.. numerous times.

As for her feeling like she is worthless. Her dad was out of her life until she was 18. Her mom.. taught her how to be unemotional available. Always trying to make her skinnier, never ending self- help books. Told her that the only reason she was with me.. was because I could look past her weight. And the list goes on and on. My w desperately wants to be good enough for her mom. Desperately wants a r with her, but can't have it.

My w turned 31 on July 30th. She had told me that she didn't want me in her life... so I didn't call. But neither did her mom, her dad, or her gram. She said she cried and felt rage for 2 hrs.

My w ate instead of feeling. We had such good communication from December up until our separation. She admitted to manipulating me to get what she wanted or using me to hide behind her fears. Afraid to have friends because isn't worthy of a friendship. Not opening up to me, because she didn't want to be weak. She said she felt worthless.

It was sad but great because for the first time, I was understanding her. We grew really close. She said that our communication was amazing and that she thought that we may have a chance because of it.

I don't know what happened in the last 4 months. Other than she started looking at herself and got scared. Too much to handle perhaps. She said she wanted to start therapy... she didn't. She has told me repeatedly that she doesn't want to deal with me or any other big fish right now.

What can I do??

Even writing this now, my heart aches for her. I want to take away the pain, tell her that she is worth so much. I loved her every minute we were together. I love her still. I wish I could save her.. but I can't. Only God can.

I know she is angry at me. Yes I understand why she feels entitled. Yes I understand her anger. I want to work it out.. but I can't. She has to forgive me. I can't make her!

Yes I'm making more money now so we could afford a house and kid. Do I make what she makes.. no, but it would be enough.

She has the most awesome job here (she loves where her career is heading), and she has found OA. I'm not sure she still hold it against me.. or if she just doesn't want me to be happy.

I say she is sick because she is an addict. The same way I am sick because I am co-dependent. We are a toxic relationship. I know that now and am doing everything in my power to change that dynamic.. but she still tries to keep it the same. I wish every day it was different because I know in my heart it could be great. I see potential in us, but it is not my reality.

[Valeska19]

Journaling -

Been really struggling alot with self-righteousness lately. So my w's only response to my email about her parking ticket was "paid". No "thanks for letting me know" or "thanks for the info". All I wanted was a thank you.. then my thoughts went to "well I'm being civil to you, why can't you just do the same".

I really just want to hit her over the head and tell her what she is doing wrong. How much it hurts me. How much it isn't love. How she abused me and continues to do so. How much she HASN'T changed. I just want to "tell her how it is".

That is not helpful at all.

I have to realize that I am being nice and civil for me. Not to prove a point. I have to realize that me being self-righteous is just a hurdle to stop me from forgiving her. So I found this quote that I wanted to share.

"Forgiving costs us our sense of justice. We all have this innate sense deep within our souls, but it has been perverted by our selfish sinful natures. We want to see “justice” done, but the justice we envision satisfies our own interests. We must realize that justice has been done. God is the only rightful administrator of justice in all of creation, and His justice has been satisfied. In order to forgive our brother, we must be satisfied with God’s justice and forego the satisfaction of our own."

[JustStunned]

Val, I think what you posted about on Saturday morning wasn’t so much abuse to abuse, rather it was abuse to dominate, to control.

Abuse is abuse when it is perceived as abuse. If that makes any sense. She may not think what she was saying and doing was abuse. On some level I hope she at least perceives how manipulative it was. You may never know.

Knowing how it made you feel and having this experience to draw upon will enable you to have a better relationship in the future.

I have to realize that I am being nice and civil for me.

Yes, you do. At the end of the day we all need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if we handled _________ with honor.

As for being self righteous, I’ve let it go in favor of revenge. This isn’t DB as I perceive it. It is what is stoking my fire now.

I believe the best revenge for me is to live, and live well, happy with the future I make from this. I will not rub her nose in it for doing so is without honor. I will live well for me.

Though she may rage outside my house I will build it to withstand the torrent and in doing so become indifferent to her machinations.

Each time I become frustrated with her or this sitch and slip into anger or recrimination I think about how I will live to negate whatever it is that is frustrating me. I am no saint. Some days are better than others. Slowly I am getting to this goal.

What are your goals? How will you measure progress?

[Valeska19]

@JS
I agree with you. I don't think my w did it to intentionally hurt me. I did think she did this to dominate and control.. whether that is fear or what. But then again.. dominating and controlling is what abusers do.

I don't think she will label it as "abuse" either. Most abusers don't. I won't lie that I wish she did see it.. but I'm trying to let it go. Like you said it's about me knowing how it made me feel and how to change it for better r's in the future.

In regards to Goals? There are a ton of them. All of them fall under the umbrella of "getting back Val" The happy one who loved others, herself and life. Each day I see her more.. each day I look in the mirror and say. "There you are.. I missed you so much".

These include:

1) Being positive in work and in life.
2) Being understanding of others and their perspectives. Agree to disagree when appropriate but understand that no one is 100% right or wrong.
3) Love others. Love the people I like, Love the people I am angry with. Not because they deserve it but because God loves us when we are so unlovable (I've said that a # of times, I just love it)
4) Actually there are alot of things about God that I want to emulate. Grace, Forgiveness, Kindess, Mercy.. so I guess I want to live a life where people see God in me.
5) Love myself. Realize that I am worth it.
6) Understand that my life isn't mine. God truly knows what's best for me. I need to have faith.

In regards to W specifically. These are much smaller.

1) I want to be able to dress how I want w/o caring. Wear that dress that kills!
2) Soften the sting of her words. Not everything should say should kill my self esteem.
3) Don't have a panic attack every time she emails me/contacts me.
4) Not get devastated or surprised every time she acts selfish.
5) Recognize sooner when she is being dominating and controlling and stop it.
6) Show her grace, compassion, and love no matter how much she pushes my buttons. But to understand that those things aren't being a doormat.
7) Most importantly, I want to change the dynamic of our relationship. I want to change my part of it. I'm sure 1-5 plays into that and there is so much more. I want to take away her power over me.

How do I measure progress? I don't know specifically.. I just see my life getting better. I see love bringing me closer to friends and family. I see my positivity bringing me more work. Better work. He!! I even see it with my w. Maybe I could measure it a little better. I just see change and think "hey.. it's working! I am changing!"

The thing is I'm pretty sure that once D is final, we won't talk for awhile. I could actually see us never talking again. She's a runner. While she is in my life, I will continue to get better. Once she is gone, I will continue to get better.

I love the advice about negating what is frustrating me. And building a house that withstands your w's rage. Something for me to think about as well.

Good stuff JS. I truly appreciate you in my life.

P.S. When did you live in SoCal and what part?

[Valeska19]

Welp.. Got a call from w this morning. I was on a tech scout for a new tv series. Sex in the City type.. but takes place in the dog grooming business. Let me just say that I am very excited to be working with dogs on set. I'm not a huge dog person at all, but it's something new and I've been praying towards my career advancing.

Sorry sidetracked. Anyway, I didn't answer because I was working but man did I shake.. literally shake when I saw the number.

Her vm was very pleasant. She had received my email (posted above) and wanted to chat via the phone instead of writing a huge email. Makes sense. I did say I was unclear about something she wrote.

Haven't called her back yet. The fact that I shake when she calls means I am still very fearful of her. I've also been longing for contact with her so I know that plays a part at some level.

However at the same time, I've really been trying to live my life by faith. It is not easy as I am quite the control freak at times.

The current truth is that my w doesn't call me. She has a really hard time dealing with me. And the fact that she is being pleasant.. woah.

So I'm thinking of calling her back because of these reasons.

1) If the situation was reversed, I would want her to call me back. Treat others the way I want to be treated.

2) All I've been hearing in church is God's grace, love, compassion, I want to continue to show those things to her.. even if she can't do the same for me.

3) I have faith that God is in control. I'm scared that I won't be able to handle it if things get cold, or angry. Or the abuse starts. That I won't be able to stop the situation.. but I also feel like I won't know until I tried. It's a phone call.. not an in person meeting. I don't feel I'm ready for that, and honestly God hasn't given me the opportunity to.

I feel, at the moment, that her call is by his will. Maybe to help move the D on, maybe to give me strength, maybe to help me gain control (even just the smallest way) over my life. To take one small step and say.. "I'm worth it and I'm strong enough to stop it".

Wish me luck people.. that includes here's to hoping that I don't turn into a chicken sh!t or that I'm not too hard on myself if I don't handle the situation perfectly. Whether I call or back or not.

[aeolianchaos]

Val,

I think I relate a little to that 'stressful wanting' feeling that you're describing. You want it, but you're scared of it.

Would you be mad at someone if they texted you rather than called?

Grace, love, and compassion are wonderful things. Can you be sure that you extend them fully to yourself first, so that if this: "I'm scared that I won't be able to handle it if things get cold, or angry. Or the abuse starts. That I won't be able to stop the situation.." happens, then you will have the love and compassion towards yourself to say "I don't deserve to be treated like that. If you don't stop I am going to hang up and we will talk when you get yourself under control"? Or something to that extent. Nothing hostile or reactive - just assert your right to be respected as a human being.

[Valeska19]

@ Aeo
Well said and your absolutely right.. I do need to show myself those things as well. Thank you for reminding me! As you will see I tend to care more about my w than me at times.

A text wouldn't bother me, I just know she is trying to reach out via the phone to avoid confusion via writing.

So I called and left a message. If I am suppose to talk to her, she will call back.

[Valeska19]

Still no call back from w. I know this is the first week of school for her. She's usually crazy busy for the 1st 3 wks or so.

Every year we would have our annual fight during the beginning of school. I would miss spending time with her, and we would fight about it. I remember last year, I was on a shoot in San Francisco, I was coming home early and she was disappointed. She said it had been nice not having me home so she could focus on school. I was hurt that she wasn't excited to see me. I hated that she was soo busy yet took very weekend to veg infront of the tv.

I wish I would have been able to express my feelings clearly. Hindsight is 20/20. Either way, I'm sure she will look at this time as a positive to not being married to me anymore.

Sorry - I know I shouldn't think that way. I shouldn't assume I know why she hasn't gotten back to me. I'm just mad that I'm stupidly waiting for her call back. Every day that goes by, I'm like "really.. you couldn't have just taken 5 minutes to call me back".

But I'm reminded how long it took me to send my email, to call her back. It's not about her, It's about controlling me. My reactions, my feelings, learning to be patient, learning to have faith.

I'm sitting in so many emotions any more. I try not to think about w, but it's there all the time. Not just our m, but trying to deal with my lack of self-worth and the emotional abuse wounds, dealing with terminally ill family members, dealing with friendships. All seem to connect to m or w some how.

Urgh. So tough. I know it's good stuff.. I am just expressing my inner 5 year old right now.

[Telemark]

You're mind reading, V.

You do it, I do it, we all do it. And usually we're wrong in our assumptions. Our S's are all over the charts with their thoughts. If they don't know what they are thinking or what they want, how could we possibly know?

You have so many plates you are trying to keep in the air right now. Let a few of them fall.

"Show yourself a little grace."

I just read this somewhere, but I can't recall who wrote it..wait, wait...it'll come to me...