...There was never even a hint of any complaint about my sexual technique. In fact, I would have been happy if there had been something clear that she found unsatisfying, because then it would mean I had something clear that I could work on, and it would also mena she was engaged in the therapy. As it was, she just dreaded every session, no matter how nice and careful the therapists were. She could never get over the feeling that she was being taken to the woodshed for her lack of interest in sex.
To make the catch-22 aspect of this clear, she would say that the whole process of going to therapy was a "real sexual turnoff". Well, as experienced had shown, not going to therapy wasn't working either.
Boy, can I identify with all those comments.
I would like to also say "+1 on 5 Languages of Love." That book helped me improve my relationship with my wife. Read it, learn it, live it.
As to her complaining, my wife recently found the courage to complain that the "personal lubricant" (Astroglide natural) we had been using for months caused a burning sensation and made intercourse unpleasant for her. She was so afraid to say anything negative that she just lived with it for months. I immediately went out and purchase three other brands with different chemical compounds and have been asking her if they are better.
Don't underestimate your wife's reluctance to complain about some aspects of sex, whether they are technique or mechanics (lubes, time, etc.). I was really surprised about my wife's reluctance to point out that she found a particular lube to be irritating.
One of the things about Snarch that I like is that he makes a big point in saying that in when there is a mismatch in sexual desire within a marriage that it doesn't mean that one person is "wrong" and needs to be fixed. I can understand your wife's feeling about therapy involving her being taken to the woodshed. Hopefully, not all of the therapists comments to your wife were negative.
I know that the therapist my wife and I had, focused not on anything being "wrong" with my wife, but on what "we" needed to be mutually happy and have a viable marriage. My wife was repeatedly told she didn't need to change anything, as long as she understood the consequences and was willing to live with them. When my wife understood that an SSM would result in divorce and that divorce was something she really didn't want, then the therapist helped us negotiate something that would each meet our needs.
Good luck to you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Yes, I think so. We had a mixture of individual and joint therapy sessions so that we could both say things freely. There was never even a hint of any complaint about my sexual technique. In fact, I would have been happy if there had been something clear that she found unsatisfying, because then it would mean I had something clear that I could work on, it's great you get this^^^. It's empowering, not insulting...or at least it could have been.
and it would also mena she was engaged in the therapy. As it was, she just dreaded every session, no matter how nice and careful the therapists were. She could never get over the feeling that she was being taken to the woodshed for her lack of interest in sex.
To make the catch-22 aspect of this clear, she would say that the whole process of going to therapy was a "real sexual turnoff". Well, as experienced had shown, not going to therapy wasn't working either.
geez, what's the difference between her being turned on and turned off?
Seriously, how would you know? And if there IS such a thing as a turn OFF
that implies there is a turn ON...ask her where that "ON" button is...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
try Jojoba oil, which is actually a type of wax but is great for sensitive skin. Also regular KY with nothing "extra" added. Or baby oil if you can handle the potential mess-it's rarely an irritant.
A lot of those "for HER enjoyment" lubricants have an irritant in them that is supposed to increase blood flow there, but dang, they burn...
(gee, I guess that increases blood flow too??)
YAH, you should talk to SSm b/c he needs a man's view of "the other side" rather than more of the "I tried everything" but has not had intercourse for 15 years... and SSM, the lack of cuddling and ALL other forms of physical intimacy, strikes me as signficant. And sad and not okay...ever ask her why? Yes I know she does't want it to "go anywhere" but
if YOU are clear about not going for more,
(sad in itself b/c sometimes it is a natural progression with no "Planned in advance" agenda, but the course of events between a loving couple....)
then why does she deny you then?
Later, You asked what the big deal was about no cuddling or sex if it's alright with you to not ever have sex again. Odd question given that you are here BUT I Agree-- it is NOT a big deal IF it is alright with both of you.
But you posted here for a reason, right?
Sure, I guess your MARRIAGE could go on like your life as a child in sexless relationships...
but I thought you came here b/c that's NOT what you want?
And fwiw, I guess I don't believe in marriages that are exactly like roomates. It's one thing to mutually agree not to have sex
(accidents or injuries can prevent it and many couples remain happy and connected)
but NO physical intimacy? NO CUDDLING?
Sorry but I think that's just oddly cold, on both ends.
And I don't get it. IF you were happy with it, my guess is you would not be here.
If I'm wrong, then just tell us what it is you want from this site. You are giving out mixed messages.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am happy with my marriage in general. I am very unhappy with the lack of sex in my marriage.
A lot of people seem to have trouble understanding how both statements can be true at the same time. Perhaps the statements are both true for us because, if nothing else, we learned in therapy how to keep our sexual differences from needlessly spilling over into other areas of our life. Some of it has to do with developing a genuine ability to see your partner's lack of interest in sex as just "low libido" rather than a lack of caring or love for you.
Yes, I realize most couples would be yelling at each other in my situation and their marriages would spiral out of control. That's what we've learned not to do. It's understanding the value of all the things we have left besides sex. Newlyweds and people who've never been in a relationship don't seem to understand that. Ask any single person what they'd do if their future partner cheated, and 99% of them say they'd dump the idiot. But when and if the reality hits, many realize it's not that simple.
YAH mentioned Schnarch. You might want to look into that a little bit more - he brings a unique approach to these kinds of things that may be really powerful for you and your situation.
I think it's good that you and your W don't yell at each other. I wonder what the motivation is for that? Is it fear? Respect? Feelings of warmth?
I wonder if your best move in this case is to work towards really clearly defining yourself.
I also wonder what your wife gets out of this deal?
M: 32 W: 29 T: 9 Years M: 4 Years I hit rock bottom: 2/11 PA admitted: 4/11 WAW: 5/11 D filed: 6/11 now: Patience, wisdom, and growth - hopefully.
I am happy with my marriage in general. I am very unhappy with the lack of sex in my marriage.
A lot of people seem to have trouble understanding how both statements can be true at the same time. Perhaps the statements are both true for us because, if nothing else, we learned in therapy how to keep our sexual differences from needlessly spilling over into other areas of our life. Some of it has to do with developing a genuine ability to see your partner's lack of interest in sex as just "low libido" rather than a lack of caring or love for you.
....It's understanding the value of all the things we have left besides sex.....
At the urging of 25, who I respect a lot, I will comment, even though I have been trying to spend less time following people on this forum.
As someone who has been married now for over 40 years and as someone who was once in an SSM, I think I understand what you are saying and I agree with much of what you are saying.
However, having worked hard at reparing my relationship with my W and now having a "real sex life" even if it isn't everything I want, is a great improvement in my happiness.
Let me just say that yes, you can find a comfortable relationship with a wife in an SSM. It is hell to try to change it, but the rewards are worth it, if you succeed.
You just need to decide what you want. Ultimately, my wife's anger at me and sexual rejection went from neutral and barely acceptable to me, to being on the edge of emotionally abusive. Her change caused me to take a good look at myself in the mirror and make some changes. Those changes were an active GAL, some 180's, and making my W feel loved each and every day.
MWD's SSM book, 5 Languages of Love by Chapman, Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight, Glover's NMMNG, Snarch's PM, and Gottman's 7 Principals all really helped me figure who I was, what I needed from my W, and how to approach her. That and the help of folks on this website, and a great sex therapist got my wife and myself back to being a sexually active couple.
While I am still not 100% happy, I am much happier as is my wife. One of the things that she told me during sex therapy was that she had felt bad about our lack of physcial/emotional closeness and she is now much happier. You might want to think about that as you contemplate how you want to live your life. Life is short.
Something that a doctor told me wife was that most of the older women she examines who aren't having sex with their husbands and either the husband or the wife has no medical reason that prevents intercourse, have relationships where the wife has deeply seated and held anger toward the husband for something that was done or not done long ago. It is a wound that will not heal. Part of the healing process for my wife was my apologizing to her for hurting her many years ago by emotionally withdrawing from her and focusing on my career (to be a good provider to our family) and her realizing that she had emotionally withdrawn from me and her doing that caused me as much pain as what I had done to her. When she realized how much she had hurt me and how I must have felt the same kind of pain/anger she felt, she emotionally broke down. That allowed her to accept my apology and her to forgive me and ask me for my forgiveness.
While you may think that your wife is just LD, she may really (either on a consious or subconsious level) be angry with you.
Good luck to you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
..OK, get ready for this, I am not kidding. She has said it would be a turn on if I don't pressure her for sex...
My wife said the same thing. So one of my 180's was to tell her that I would not initiate sex with her. As with you she just felt everything was fine for several months.
I then told my wife that I needed to be touched frequently to feel loved and that she was not touching me (See Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight and Chapman's 5 LL). She said she would touch me but that it would only lead to my pestering her for sex. I called her on that and told her that no matter what she did or wanted that I would not have sex with her for 3 months to allow her to learn how to touch me in complete safety.
During that 3+ months she really didn't do much in the way of touching me like I wanted, but she learned how to provide me with physcial signs of affection much like a sister or friend would provide to another human being. During that time I also worked hard on trying to make my w feel loved in her Languages of Love and I threw myself into a GAL that resulted in my W's friends telling her how handsome I was and how lucky she was to have me.
All of that helped set the stage for our sex therapy sessions and her deciding that if she didn't change the way she treated me I would ultimately divorce her and she wanted to remain married, which meant that she and I needed to have an active sex life. She finally came to that realization. It wasn't easy and she still has a lot of self image and intimacy issues, but I am much happier and we are still married.
Good luck to you. I have been there.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Yes, I keep hearing about his books. The first time I took a look, his writing seemed lengthy and verbose to me, not to the point like some other books. Perhaps I need to go back and let it sink in a little more.
Quote:
I think it's good that you and your W don't yell at each other. I wonder what the motivation is for that? Is it fear? Respect? Feelings of warmth?
Respect and feelings of warmth. A realization that it's a sexual mismatch, not something we're doing to punish each other.
(SIDENOTE---If you have given your w "hundreds" of back massages without it leading anywhere, EVER,
I'm struck by that. I CANNOT get a massage that lasts more than 4 minutes (max) without it either going somewhere, or ending...)
Thanks for making that observation. Good to hear a woman say that. I totally agree, same here! Based on my wife, I was beginning to think only horny HD men think that way when they get a massage. But, I thought, does that really make sense? Women claim to want all kinds of touching and foreplay. I was left thinking, just when the heck do women actually want this foreplay they claim they want so badly? My wife never wanted it. So it's good to hear you say that.
