Don't know what to say. Wife says she likes the way I look. I don't ask for sex at all. Doesn't make her want me one more bit, sexually. But she wants to go on vacation with me, which we do, she wants to go to restaurants, and we do. Last week she even made the reservation at a nice restaurant, and we enjoyed it. When I greet her coming home, etc., I usually ask how it's going, how are you feeling, etc. We've dug deeply through therapy for years, and we learned a lot and things improved.
Yes, helping around the house, going out to events with her, going to restaurants, dancing, back massage, vacations together, hiking, compliments, planning an evening, going to a movie. And she enjoys it when I do these things... and I don't mind because I enjoy them too.
Not what I would consider direct turn-ons, of course. But sure, those are things many women say would put them in the mood.
But none of this results in any expression of desire for sex on her part.
Somehow, when I read all SSMGuy and Tea's assumptions and explanations of how their wives feel ... I just can't buy it. They don't ring true to me, and seem more in the realm of mind-reading and self-justification than genuine understanding.
Cyrena:
Although I left out the rest of the quote, neither SSMGUY or I have any responsibility or accountability for explaining those other women who have torrid affairs...unless you are implying that our wives are those women having torrid affairs and leaving the marriages completely sexually hollow.
And what is it that does not ring true? The facts or the various possible explanations of the facts?
The facts, in my case, is the last time my wife and I had sexual intimacy (that ultimately led to intercourse) was April 6, 1997. By that time, we were down to a frequency of 3 times in every 2 years (after 9 years in the relationship, almost 5 being married). It wasn't that limited because I did not try. I had a running complaint about the drop-off in frequency. Between April 6, 1997 and November 11, 1997 (her birthday), I tried to initiate sexual intimacy about 5 or 6 times only to be brushed aside. The number of times she tried to initiate sexual intimacy (at least to know that's what she had in mind)during that time period: zero.
On her 51st birthday in 1997, we both had the day off and so I was a lot more persistent in attempting to get her interested. She kept pushing me away and finally got angry with me and told me "NO MEANS NO! NOT YES, NOT MAYBE! Isn't that what we teach our children?"
Over the next six months we had discussions about the lack of sex, the reasons why (I didn't get much of an explanation) and what we could do to remedy the situation. Note: I was the one who indicated I was unhappy with the sexual frequency. She never indicated that she was dissatisfied with the frequency of sex in any of those discussions. I was the one who offered various options, she never offered one.
Part of the approach we both agreed to was that if some offer or option was rejected outright, it would be "taken off the table" and only the person who rejected the option could choose to re-open that specific topic. The reasoning was to keep either of us from running over the same ground over and over again.
And so, when I finally was dissatisfied with the lack of any movement on this after six months, I asked the question about whether she was willing to commit to be sexually intimate with me at any level or at any frequency. Her answer was "No, I'm not willing to do that."
There is no mind-reading to that. Those are the words that were spoken by her.
Now I have attributed her actions to a number of possible reasons...from medical to anger/lack of trust.
Until recently we had not talked about it for years...until she recently accused me of having "met someone else." I have lost 60 pounds and begun renewing my interest in stuff that I had given up (music, backpacking/hiking). As I pointed out, if she had someone following me on a day-in-day-out basis, it would be a most boring job. My GPS tracking on my phone is "on" and when I'm out hiking or walking, I have a tracking program operating that shows where I go and for how long. It downloads to a website.
In this accusation, she did admit that she did not marry me so that she could have a marriage without having it be a sexual one. She said that in response to my observation that the women who have gotten involved with me over my lifetime seem to do so to allow them to have a comfortable relationship that does not involve sex...that I will allow them to be who they really are without requiring sex in exchange for that environment of being who they really are.
She did try to tell me that I was confusing sex with intimacy.
But she also cannot (or will not) explain why, in more than 14 years, she has never attempted to be intimate with me sexually or otherwise. She was not the one complaining of too little intimacy; I was.
As someone once told me "Understanding is the *booby prize*."
Are telling me that if only I "understood" then she would suddenly become sexually active and intimate with me again?
Or is it that if only I "understood," then the past 14+ years would suddenly be rendered acceptable as would the remainder of our life together as a non-sexual married couple?
As I told her in this recent discussion (and it was a discussion after her accusation), I am resigned to a marriage where there is no sexual intimacy until and unless she tells me that she chooses it to be sexual once again. That requires words and actions, not mindreading on my part.
Her choosing to be sexual with me in order to keep me from walking away is hardly a victory for either of us.
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
the last line is a bit confusing to me. I think ML "Even when" you don't feel like it
often leads to a change of heart.
I have said "yes" when I didnt' really feel like it out of love for h, or other reasons I can't think of just now.
But I ALWAYS am glad afterwards...without fail. I often tell myself
"geez, why am I not making more time for this??"
So maybe you really want to be wanted (totally understandable)
but if she agrees "just" to please you and then enjoys it
even just a little, how is that bad?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wow, there are many similarities in our situations. If I may ask, does your wife has orgasms with you or by herself? Has she ever? Perhaps I'm overly focused on this aspect of a relationship since it seems to be a major stumbling block in my marriage, though I won't claim for sure that it's the root cause of our problems.
It certainly seems to be a stumbling block in my marriage that my wife never explored herself far enough to experience orgasm for herself, and has not let me try, and doesn't want to talk about it any more. So with other issues on top of that, it becomes more difficult to frame success as "getting back to the good thing we had when we met". We now realize we never quite had it as far as a good mutual sexual relationship.
It would be one thing if we had dealt with this issue early in our marriage, but it's another kind of probem when it hasn't been resolved in 30 years. Compared to the problems I read other couples have, I often feel like they just have easy problems to fix. Like we never had the sexual thing right ever, so the sexual prospects are not encouraging, though much else about our marriage is good.
I have said "yes" when I didnt' really feel like it out of love for h, or other reasons I can't think of just now.
But I ALWAYS am glad afterwards...without fail. I often tell myself
"geez, why am I not making more time for this??"
Well, that's you! And I wish my wife was like you! But I think my wife and Captain's are not like you, unfortunately.
Quote:
So maybe you really want to be wanted (totally understandable)
but if she agrees "just" to please you and then enjoys it
even just a little, how is that bad?
Who said that was the case?
no one said it was the case.
I'm asking IF, hypothetically, that could happen or ever has??
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
one thing about the climax issue for women, I have to say...despite what articles in magazines say, it's abnormal to never have had one.
IF a woman is anatomically and physically healthy (a clitoris that is normal in size) no bladder issues, etc.
then it's pretty much a psychological issue (or inadequate stimulation).
You say she never has had one even with a device on her own in private...
And after reading a bit on that topic, plus what I know of all the sisters and women I know,
she either has a physical problem that has NOT been truly explored,
or it's emotional. Not simply low libido.
Why do you keep saying that's what it is?
You seem to be embracing a certain helplessness.
I don't get it. But it saddens me for both of you. If she ever has one b/c of your efforts, she'll thank you, that's for sure.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
