Are there any midlife women who want daily sex?

[ssmguy]

So maybe you really want to be wanted (totally understandable)

but if she agrees "just" to please you and then enjoys it

even just a little, how is that bad?

Who said that was the case?

no one said it was the case.

I'm asking IF, hypothetically, that could happen or ever has??

Never happened in my case. She never even hinted that she was glad to have done it when she had to be "convinced" to participate. I've heard MWD mention the approach many times as the "Nike philosophy", and I'm sure it works for many people. I wish it were true for my marriage as well. In my case, the difference might be that my wife never had an O in the first place. That is, there isn't as much, "Oh, yeah, I forgot how good this is" to come back to.

Rather, her response was more along the lines of, "Hope you're happy now", and "OK, I did it so I don't want to hear any more complaining!"

[ssmguy]

...IF a woman is anatomically and physically healthy (a clitoris that is normal in size) no bladder issues, etc.

then it's pretty much a psychological issue (or inadequate stimulation).

You say she never has had one even with a device on her own in private...

That's right. I've many times brought up the idea of getting a device, but she thinks they're only for skanky porno stars.

And after reading a bit on that topic, plus what I know of all the sisters and women I know,

she either has a physical problem that has NOT been truly explored,

or it's emotional. Not simply low libido.

Why do you keep saying that's what it is?

Just a general term. I don't know for sure what her problem is. Not even necessarily calling it a problem. The same woman without a man would not be considered having a problem. Nobody considers it a problem when a woman is living alone and not having sex. You could say she has a low desire for me in the present circumstances to be more accurate.

You seem to be embracing a certain helplessness.

I would say it's she that's embracing helplessness. I'm not her. I can't make her do things. The alternative to "helplessness" is doing the same things over and over again and not having them work. Not much I haven't tried. In fact, the "complaint" I've gotten in this thread is that I'll just say I've already tried it! Well, jeez, what do you want me to say?

I don't get it.

Well, you know what? I don't get it either.

But it saddens me for both of you. If she ever has one b/c of your efforts, she'll thank you, that's for sure.

Yeah, if only she'd let me try!

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

Captain,

the last line is a bit confusing to me. I think ML "Even when" you don't feel like it

often leads to a change of heart.

First, all the evidence from my wife is contrary to what you express. She became less and less willing to making love, much less being sexual, when she didn't feel like it. Ultimately, when given the choice, she made the choice to be completely non-sexual...I've simply allowed her to have her choice for the past 14 years without complaining to her about it. And the only reason it came up at all recently is because she made an accusation that I've "met someone" (her words).

More importantly, I was pointing out an end-game strategy where I hardly consider her accepting sex simply to keep me from leaving is a winning strategy.

I think in the period from 1990 through 1997 was a period where she increasingly "didn't feel like it," and said yes to making love when she did not feel like it. I cannot say for certain whether she enjoyed as I will allow for the possibility that she was feigning enjoyment.

And in the run-up to the "NO MEANS NO!" event on her 51st birthday, there were a number of times where she pushed me away and I just did not persist to maintain some level of domestic tranquility. The frequency of ML, sexual intimacy and even any level of sexual play was dropping rapidly.

She got (and gets) upset when I deal with statistics. And yet she has been dismissive about my "feelings" on this and other things ("it's just a feeling, not reality"). The numbers are objective. I have not attempted to be sexual with anyone outside of this marriage. I have not had sexual intercourse since April 6, 1997. I have not attempted any sexual activity with her since November 11, 1997 because she did not want me to unless we resolved this and then she chose not to be sexual anymore in this marriage in April 1998.

It would be nice if we were in a position of ML even when one or both of us did not feel like it. Unless or until she changes her mind about this or this marriage comes to an end, I see no path out.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

My wife generally did not have orgasm difficulties (at least with me). Neither did my first wife (until after our son was born and then her orgasm was less 'reliable.' Although our sex lfe fell off dramatically and her ability to orgasm seemed to go away or be less reliable, there were also times when the sexual intensity from her was "bi-polar" which I attribute to other factors including hormonal issues).

OTOH, I've always been willing to take the time to sexually stimulate and attempt satisfy my sexual partners (that has not always been successful, mind you) rather than jumping to the main course. Short (in time) and intense sessions have occurred far less frequently in sexual sessions than long, lazy, multiple-orgasmic lovemaking (multiples for both her and I).

That is not to say that there hasn't been occasional difficulty in her achieving orgasm, but it generally was not THE problem. Rather it has seemed to be more of an issue of generating interest and energy.

Although I have had relatively few experiences where the woman does not experience orgasm at some time during the encounter, I also know the frustration of feeling like being sexually involved with me just is not any fun (I'd rather watch QVC) and that sex is more like a form of abuse rather than real intimacy.

The Captain

[25yearsmlc]

tea, captain, ssm

I don't know what to say. I won't keep going on with the "BUT FOR ME", etc

b/c it's not helpful. Unless you or some of you are leaving out parts or not looking hard enough at your part in this

then there's not a lot to say. I DO think you need to tell her/them that you are woefully unhappy with a big chunk of your life.

Tea I'm interested in knowing if your w has had ANY interest increase since the big accusation?


Apparently there's a thread of jealousy in her. Interesting. Have you flat out told her that she has rejected you

for years and that for every night that you went without sex as a couple,

was a missed opportunity...a chance for her to show you that you are desired as a man.

And each time that didn't happen, you were hurt. Men are allowed feelings too.


It's not a "Complaint"; it's a statement of fact. Why doesn't that matter?

And Tea, as much as I do NOT approve of affairs,

isn't there a part of her that knows she's pushing you into the arms of OW?

OR at least fears it? Sheesh...

And gentlemen, let me say this once;

NOT ALL WOMEN are like this. I only know 1 and it's her h's choice (she gained a lot of weight, which I assume is why).

And I'm sorry for what you are going through.

[ssmguy]

NOT ALL WOMEN are like this. I only know 1 and it's her h's choice (she gained a lot of weight, which I assume is why).

That's one of the things I get out of reading and posting here, namely to get the reassurance from women like you that my wife's behavior is unusual, and not the norm for a woman who wasn't particularly excited about sex at this point in her life.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

tea, captain, ssm

Tea I'm interested in knowing if your w has had ANY interest increase since the big accusation?


Apparently there's a thread of jealousy in her. Interesting. Have you flat out told her that she has rejected you

for years and that for every night that you went without sex as a couple,

was a missed opportunity...a chance for her to show you that you are desired as a man.

And each time that didn't happen, you were hurt. Men are allowed feelings too.


It's not a "Complaint"; it's a statement of fact. Why doesn't that matter?

And Tea, as much as I do NOT approve of affairs,

isn't there a part of her that knows she's pushing you into the arms of OW?

OR at least fears it? Sheesh...

While not all women may be like this my personal experience, as I related to my wife, is that the women I come to care about in long-term relationships apparently enter them so that they can be whole they are as non-sexual creatures. And there must be enough of these sexual issues to have it be part of the conversation.

Yet, thank-you for taking a look and trying to to be helpful.

Now, to your question:

In a word: No.

I've seen no difference. And yes, I flat out told her that she rejected me and that the cost of that is a much diminished relationship...one where I cannot and do not share my most intimate self.

This is more a friendship and a housemate arrangement without any of the "friends with benefits" trappings.

I'd love to spend more time on this but I have to go this morning and make a presentation to a group. Maybe later.

The Captain

[25yearsmlc]

tea, captain, ssm

Tea I'm interested in knowing if your w has had ANY interest increase since the big accusation?


Apparently there's a thread of jealousy in her. Interesting. Have you flat out told her that she has rejected you

for years and that for every night that you went without sex as a couple,

was a missed opportunity...a chance for her to show you that you are desired as a man.

And each time that didn't happen, you were hurt. Men are allowed feelings too.


It's not a "Complaint"; it's a statement of fact. Why doesn't that matter?

And Tea, as much as I do NOT approve of affairs,

isn't there a part of her that knows she's pushing you into the arms of OW?

OR at least fears it? Sheesh...

While not all women may be like this my personal experience, as I related to my wife, is that the women I come to care about in long-term relationships apparently enter them so that they can be whole they are as non-sexual creatures. And there must be enough of these sexual issues to have it be part of the conversation.


God, I sure hate to harp on this, but I'm a little unclear and a little stubborn-( I kind of can't believe what she's doing).

Maybe a word is missing in your paragraph.

IF I got this right, you said the women YOU have "come to care about", enter the relationships Because they can be "whole"....as non sexual creatures"?...

Not clear on that sentence or its' meaning. (And btw, being "whole", by definition, excludes non sexual creatures. TO me, it's a contradiction in terms imo).

I assume you have been with other women. Well, did they manage to like it as far as you know? Or are you saying ALL these other women had no sexual interest in you?

(If so, Is that part of what made you care for them? IF so, that's a reflection on you, not them. )
Maybe I misunderstood.

If I recall correctly, you lost a lot of weight recently, right?

Forgive me for saying this but, before this weight loss,

may I assume you were pretty overweight? Let's say 50-75lbs or more, over?

IF SO, that would explain a lot. First, there seems to be an underlying theory that obese people lack sex drive. (I have a very heavy sister who would happily disprove this)but it seems to stick for men in terms of perception.
Weird in a way b/c women are held to higher (smaller) standards but the sexuality libido trait seems more attached to men. IDK...

I mean, maybe non sexualized women felt safer around you b/c they mistakenly assumed you were asexual due to the weight. I can't really explain the logic of it but

I have actually heard women making comments to the effect that gay men and obese men feel equally safe for these women to be around as if they "know he won't try anything"...and so when the man does make a pass, the women are shocked.

Does any part of this ring true?

At least it could give me insight and if it is at least partly true, then your w has not seen you as a sexual "creature" for awhile. True?
Now she's beginning to. OR at least
she sees that other women might be seeing you sexually, and YOU need to pick up on that b/c it probably is happening. LET IT...enjoy it.

You informed her that there's no one else and you weren't seeking it out and she has thus far acted exactly the same...hmmm.

Next time you have sought it out "so far" or "yet"...

Maybe we can try a little mystery b/c there actually HAS been a change in your m.

You look & feel different and people have noticed. (SHE has noticed!) Has she complimented you on taking care of your body/health better?

As for the mystery--hey I'm not TOTALLY into games but maybe a little witholding of information. She doesn't need to know who you are with at all times, or where you went and yada yada...
No, nothing like making up lies, but some keeping to yourself and some mystery. Be vague about GAL but GAL asap. That's the biggest help in a way.

In some way, maybe even words, ACKNOWLEDGE that indeed you ARE a sexual man like you always said!! Only now, everyone else sees this too....sure would be NORMAL/nice if she did too, since she's your wife!

back to your previous r's with women...any of them sexually lasting or "successful"?

Just to make one tiny observation that will sound like a sweeping generalization-it's not, but it MIGHT apply somewhere around here if not to you, then someone else.

I have 5 brothers. I KNOW (more than I wish to know really) that 3 of them have wives who feel VERY happy with their sex lives. They compliment my 3 brothers.
I have 2 other brothers and they both complain their wives don't like sex enough. The one who is divorced (at HIS urging) was described as "Frigid" with "sex abuse in her past"...both of which were LIES he told. And that deeply infuriated me as I love all my sister's in law. My brothers did well but these 2 are blowing it. The divorced one...well, I lost a lot of respect for him when he left his first w and lied about her.

Both of those women at one time LOVED my brothers and both of them in a moment of weakness, after drinks at a holiday function (different years)

where they didn't mean to bad mouth their h's, confided to me how UNsatisfactory their sex lives were with these 2 brothers.

My older sil asked me questions about my sex life to compare b/c she said she's given hj's to my brother, "hundreds of times" (b/c intercourse is too much work for him??) , or whatever, and he NEVER EVER has done for her, what she does for him..."hundreds of times" versus "NEVER"...and that brother is very obese and she's not. She's Andy Mcdowell beautiful and slim, but he treated her this way...crazy...

The fact that no women had complained to my older brother out loud before, was evidence to HIM, of his prowess or maybe he didn't care....but OMG, that same brother told me his w was "frigid" and had never had an orgasm...well guess what? NOT TRUE. She has them with her 2nd h all the time now, and she had them BEFORE my brother. He either selectively lied or just lied...outright.


And btw, both brothers who's wives were not happy with the sex were/are both overweight. The other three are not. Hmm.

So It bugged me that my older brother would lie about his w, bad mouthing her when the fact is, he was lousy in bed. BUT WORSE, I met up with an old gf of his at a party 2 years ago who volunteered similar information to my sister and I ....OMG how mortifying. I mean, how bad does he have to be to have an old gf from 25 years ago feel like telling his sisters how bad he was??? Like how did that even come up?

But it's HIM badmouthing a great woman that really killed me. I think he's terrified he's lousy in that sex department and divorced his first w to get a lower maintenance one. And he did. His new wife wanted a child, they did in vitro (don't ask why) and she's having a child now at age 50. Her first, his second. Ask me next year if they're still m.

POINT? Just how HE saw things so differently than his wife did.

The younger brother was very inexperienced and his lovely wife said something similar but more vague, just that "he doesn't seem to know how to please a woman, he thinks just being inside me is magical" AND "won't do anything else", to please her etc. Tea, yes I KNOW you are different. But that younger brother complains about her 'never wanting to sleep with him" as if SHE has a disorder. I feel like saying look at your mirror or weight scale. HIS wife is also attractive, striking looking even. And petite. Maybe weighs 110lbs...

Well, so I had to put it out there. This "blame the woman's low libido" for a man's ignorance happens in my own family. Good grief, I can only imagine with dread, what it must be like in repressed cultures where a woman is NOT even supposed to enjoy it b/c of temptation....so sad.

But I digress...sorry Tea.

But let me know if you think the prior weight issues played a role. It'll be a start.

(( ))

Yet, thank-you for taking a look and trying to to be helpful.

Now, to your question:

In a word: No.

I've seen no difference. And yes, I flat out told her that she rejected me and that the cost of that is a much diminished relationship...one where I cannot and do not share my most intimate self.

This is more a friendship and a housemate arrangement without any of the "friends with benefits" trappings.

I'd love to spend more time on this but I have to go this morning and make a presentation to a group. Maybe later.

The Captain

[Jack_Three_Beans]

She did try to tell me that I was confusing sex with intimacy.

That is a problem...One I wish you could address again, with her.

Because to her sex is not intimacy. Doesn't mean that you are wrong for feeling that it is.

Simply put, it shows intimacy for you, and you are not wrong in that....just as she is not wrong for her feelings.

I like coffee with 2 creams and no sugar, doesn't make everyone who drinks it black 'wrong'.


Tea and SS, since you're posting here, it is a problem, we don't vent here about the stuff we are happy about. Are there things you haven't tried?

I forget where I read this, maybe SSM, I tried this and it helped.

My wife likes to shop, she likes second hand stores and buying stuff for the house. It's something she loves to do, I told her this and she agrees. I asked her if she felt I was better about dealing with the difference in our sex drives (lack from my POV), she thought I had. I thanked her.

She was understandably leery and curious as to the topic.
I reminded her that I really liked sex. There was nothing wrong with her low drive, and there was nothing wrong with my high drive. We were just different in that regard. So saying that...

I liked sex, I would only have it with her. That would be like her only going shopping when I went with her and only when I wanted to go. She was listening still but got a little defensive.

She said that I could always 'get off' by myself. I smiled and said, true, but that would be like the only place you could go shopping without me is the grocery store...helpful, needed, but in the end? Not really entertaining.

That dialogue was, for us, a great way to start addressing the problem.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

Long story considerably shortened.

In my life there have been three women with whom I have fallen in love with and had what was a long-term relationship. And three women with whom I have been sexual partners. Two of these three women I have been married to and in the marriage, there has been NO infidelity on my part.

So, love number 1...she was my high school girl friend and she was a year younger than I and she was the first girl/woman I really fell in love with. We shared a common interest in music (which is how we met) and she was incredibly smart (she would probably say the same thing about me, but she was the one that scored 1600 on the SAT).

We hit it off immediately even though we went to different high schools. Over my last year of high school, we became emotionally close and teenage hormones being what they are, we approached that sexual threshold where you go beyond touching and exploring each other to sexual stimulation with the eventual outcome being lovemaking.

We would come to a certain point and she would just "freeze up." I wouldn't press to go beyond that point. And in time she would seem comfortable where we were sexually, then we'd go a little farther. Same thing, again. I thought it was a certain fear. But we loved spending time together.

We couldn't get beyond a certain point and we'd pull back for a while. Being away from each other while I was attending a university in another state tended to highlight how rapidly I was changing (now being away from home). And we decided that with her going off to one school and me at another, we would release each other with the idea that one day further down the road,we'd see what was possible again.

We deeply loved each other and we spoke in terms of "someday." But we left each other as virgins.

That opportunity for "someday" came a few years later completely unexpectedly. By that time I had been involved with the woman I would eventually marry and have a child with, but we were briefly on the outs with each other. Lots of things going on and very complicated. My former high school girlfriend had dated others (in fact I met the guy she eventually married) but was not involved with anyone at this particular moment.

It was wonderful to see her again and it was almost like no time had passed between the two of us even though we were catching up with each other's lives. I won't go into the details, but she initiated the action and it was completely out of the blue...totally unexpected. This was the first time we had actually been naked together and I remember thinking "OH MY GOD! This is it!"

And then, there it was, the same coldness and what was, at one moment. exciting and definitely sexual all of a sudden just went away. I was 'ready to go' and she wasn't, though she thought she was. I comforted her, held her close, gently stroked her as we lay in bed together. It was fine to get into a shower with me, wash me, and then come crawl into bed with me. But then she just couldn't go though with it. I wasn't angry and she couldn't explain it.

I thought with time maybe that would change and although we were close publicly, there was nothing going on sexually. We tried a couple of more times and it was always her. And I could never figure that out.

It was many years later that I found out that she married that guy from her school and then there was a very dramatic break-up when he discovered her with someone else. She told me about that (and apologized for not telling me sooner) that she had maintained a long-term relationship with another woman.

And in that instant I understood what I had been "fighting" while falling deeply in love with her. As long as I allowed her to be with me and non-sexual, we were remarkably close. Sex got in the way.

I'll come back to Love No. 2 and 3 in the next posts. Hopefully, you'll see the pattern here.

The Captain