Also, re your threat that her PA will cost the kids $200K... I don't think that will have your intended effect. In her mind it is you causing her to have a PA in the first place, so ultimately she'll still think it's your fault. Her thinking is twisted right now.
Do you really want her to come back to you because you told her if she doesn't it'll cost the kids money? I would not respond well to a threat.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. Great advice and I will look into the books after I am done with DB/ DR and [edited by dbmod: reference not recommended nor allowed].
Here's my catch 22 and maybe there's no good answer...
My revelation is that she sees me as weak and unnattractive because I have not been able to set boundaries or stand up with myself for her and lots of others. I have very much been a man with Nice Guy Syndrome. I have been passive aggressive and indirect.
So if I tolerate her openly dating without selling the house and without filing for divorce, then I am just repeating the behavior and sending signals that I can be walked all over and am clearly not a real man. I am also just repeating the behavior of keeping my head down and trying to minimize conflict (which is my natural instinct, sadly).
If I set a boundary now with her in the head space she is in, I do really risk her seeing it as an ultimatum and it could burn the relationship entirely....on the other hand, she might respect the fact that for once when it most matters, I have actually stepped up to the line and told her honestly how I feel and that I can't stay living here if she is actively dating and I cannot afford to pay rent and mortgage so we have to get rid of the house.
"My revelation is that she sees me as weak and unnattractive because I have not been able to set boundaries or stand up with myself for her and lots of others."
How do you know that? Did you ask her? All of that stuff about seeming weak, etc. flies only to a certain degree. You should be standing up for yourself already. That includes doing what you want to do and becoming the better man because it's what you desire to do. Not because you think it's what your W wants.
"I feel and that I can't stay living here if she is actively dating and I cannot afford to pay rent and mortgage so we have to get rid of the house."
You notice how you end up doing what she wants any way? Do you want to get rid of the house? Have her come up with a solution. What do you want to keep and have? Start thinking of your needs.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
don't be offended about what I'm going to say now okay, b/c it's not aimed at you.
But all this conflict avoidance stuff we discuss here and my h showed much of in 05-07 (not all fixed either but better)...
well, first off, WHO "LIKES" CONFLICT??
No one (except for bullies.)
Most of us want to avoid conflict. But some of us face it while others hide from it or pass the buck or do the passive aggressive
And ironically it nearly always ( i submit it DOES ALWAYS) add to the conflict in the long run.
Example, when we got married, we married in my Church (Catholid). H's mother is orthodox (very similar but not to HER). I was told NOTHING about any objections to it being Catholic.
I invited an orthodox priest to participate, but he told me my MIL has asked HIM to do the whole thing...wth? I said, "no, it's Catholic but we wanted a joint ceremony and your blessing." HE declined, thanks to my MIL promsing something I had no idea about. SHE AND MY H were conflict avoidant.
THEN H promised her and her relatives we would raise the kids Orthodox...wth? NEVER SAID A WORD TO ME....I swear. If he had, I'd have said "expose them to both" for I have no problem with his religion except it's in Russian...but I'd take the kids.
SIDENOTE: in 30 years of marriage and 2 years of dating, h has NOT ONCE suggested going to his church, or ANY orthodox church NOR has he gone himself...
whereas I do go to mine. It means a lot more to me than it does to him but HIS family is a different matter. Like I said, I knew NONE of this.
So on baptism day for our newborn son, his mother suddenly declines attending and the grandfather who came out to meet our son, flew out the day before. I was so hurt. On a speaker phone, mil told h that it was b/c it was Catholic and I had never faced anti-Catholicism in my life. (And It's not like I'm some great pious Catholic but this really bugged me....)
Still, h never told me of his promises to them. They probably believed I HAD LIED and broken my promises....but it was all h telling them what he thought they wanted to hear, never giving me a chance to say no, and the relationships between them and me being horrible afterwards...
thanks for the conflict avoiding....it lead to much deeper worse damage at my expense.
You have an anger problem you don't seem to see. Sure, she does to. But all I hear about is your anger and your
punitive solutions. I understand your dilemma, but you have a lot more options than the 2 of being a doormat or a jerk.
Did you say you read the DR book? I think you did, so what are you trying now with her?
AND what are your GAL? They matter.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks and yes - she has told me multiple times that she doesn't respect me because I don't set boundaries, I am a doormat, I can't say no to her or almost anyone else, etc. (I didn't used to be this way).
What I want seems unlikely. I want her to break off the affair and go to counseling and try and repair my once happy family. If that's not possible, then I want her to move out and leave me with the kids. If neither works, then I want to sell the house, yes.
That's not what I meant. What do you want that's within your control? What have you been doing that's within your control? You obviously can't force her to leave you the kids. What's realistic?
And if you believe your family was truly happy, you wouldn't be here. What have you done to fix that without making the A an obsession? It's hard, I know, but you've got to start thinking objectively.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
We all ALL have our dark sides. But glossing over them or hiding from them truly makes them bigger and worse.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am clearly aware now that I have Mr. Nice Guy Syndrome. I didn't always have this (although I am sure it was buried deep inside). But the reality is the last 5-6 years I have been living to please her and my life has become about her and trying to make her happy and has ceased being about me and what I want. I have become passive aggressive, angry, manipulative, weak, unable to set boundaries or stand up for myself and incapable of following through on most tasks because I have become so distracted. I isolated myself from a large group of friends that I had and have not been around men really in 4 years. Before our hardship, I was much more integrated, not afraid of conflict and was great with people; I knew who I was and was proud of my accomplishments. I was considered a great and kind leader in business, managing and mentoring dozens of brilliant tech minds.
The strategy I am currently employing is The Last Resort because that is where I am. I am now going to take up boxing, I am going to sporting events and college alumni meetings, reconnecting with friends and I am slowly regaining my confidence. It is going to be a long process. I am also going to start setting boundaries with her and stop saying yes to things that I don't want to do.
Here's what my counselor said about situations like you describe with the over-the-top screaming and swearing. First, when things are calm, have a discussion. Whether you end up together or apart, you're going to be communicating over the kids and other matters. You are no longer going to accept x, y, and z (for example, raised voice, vulgar language). Will she agree to that? When those things happen, say, you'll let her know you need to end the conversation and come back to it later. Ask her if there are any rules she'd like to have with regard to your behavior in an argument so that she also doesn't become frustrated and the conversation doesn't become unproductive. This will constitute a verbal contract about how you'll communicate during a disagreement. If she does x, y, or z you do what you said and end the conversation. Not in a punitive way, but as a rule you both agreed to. If you have a disagreement where she stays respectful and calm, compliment and thank her for showing respect.
In my situation, I thought I was the innocent victim. After we were asked to think of our rules for "fair fighting," my rule for H was respectful tone/no sarcasm. His rule for me was don't change the subject and don't ignore what he's saying. I had to become humble and admit to myself that I wasn't such an innocent victim. My habit of ignoring might have started as a defense mechanism but it became more of an act of disrespect over time. One of my 180s is to really listen and show that I heard.
What you might try - imagine a protective barrier that her hurtful words bounce off. Be the adult, set the boundary and walk away when talk is unproductive. Imagine that she's a toddler having a tantrum when she yells and screams.
I'm wishing you the best. It sounds like you have done amazing things in your career - don't forget you are that same person. You're going through a hard time but you are still you. Do more of the things that make you feel strong and centered.
Adinva
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
So I am 99% that the relationship just became physical. She texted saying she was going to stay at the campus library late (she's complained multiple times that she can't study there). Then our nanny quit tonight so I texted W and told her. I am leaving town tomorrow on business. Instead of calling she asked me what time I am leaving tomorrow.
Under normal circumstances she would freak out and call me and it's pretty obvious she's with OM.
Am feeling really pretty low. But I have come to the conclusion that I am not moving out or short selling the house. The equity belongs to the kids and I am not going to let it go poof. So I am currently leaning towards setting a boundary when I get back in town, telling her I am not OK with her having an affair when we are under the same roof and she either needs to break it off or move out.
I realize this is not quite in line with DR and DB but I need to be true to my heart and as screwed up as I am and as many mistakes as I've made, it would not be right to just roll over and play dead.
Thanks everyone for listening and for your support.
